I just got a converted igloo cooler from a buddy so Im going to attempt an oatmeal stout for the winter using an all grain recipe. Its my first all grain attempt, Ive been doing mini mashes for a while now. Ive been reading up on it and am now overwhelmed with techniques and tips. One thing I did however pickup on was the way to introduce the grains to the water. They said to soak the grains in water at 120 degrees for about 20 minutes THEN steep your grains for 90 minutes. They called this the "dough-in method" and said it wasn't completely necessary, but got better enzyme yields. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? I know you have to do this with the oatmeal since its not malted, but should I do this with the grains too?
"Dough-In" method
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GrantLee63
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Well ...... I'm the farthest from an expert on the subject, but I typically:
1) Pre-heat my mash tun (converted 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler)
2) Add my crushed grain (AFTER draining out the water I pre-heated it with)
3) Add my water, using a mash rake to stir it up (average 12 quarts +/-)
4) Add either hot or cold water to fine tune my target mash temp (if necessary)
5) Don't worry .... Have a Home Brew !!!
I've NEVER soaked my grains at 120 degrees, but then all the beers I've made to date have been single infusion. My efficiencies have ranged from 75-88%, with the last dozen batches between 80-85%. YMMV
- GL63
1) Pre-heat my mash tun (converted 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler)
2) Add my crushed grain (AFTER draining out the water I pre-heated it with)
3) Add my water, using a mash rake to stir it up (average 12 quarts +/-)
4) Add either hot or cold water to fine tune my target mash temp (if necessary)
5) Don't worry .... Have a Home Brew !!!
I've NEVER soaked my grains at 120 degrees, but then all the beers I've made to date have been single infusion. My efficiencies have ranged from 75-88%, with the last dozen batches between 80-85%. YMMV
- GL63
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I am even farther for an expert than he is, but I also preheat my mash tun to about 180. Once I hit to my strike temp I add the grains, slowly stirring them in. If beersmith is correct I should be at my mash temp...In my short career at all-grain, i have never soaked my grains...
What are your sources and who are "they"? Your description sounds like a misunderstanding of "they" who provided the information or perhaps a misinterpretation on your part. "Dough in" is the mixing of the recipe's grains with hot water (the "strike water") to create the mash. It is all mixed in at one time. Most recipes and grains will use a single temperature mash in the area of 150F. Mulit-temperature infusions and decoction mashes will include stages starting at lower temps but that is not something to be concerned with now. For a stout all you need to do is mix your grains with enough hot water to get the mixture close to 150F. (I prefer 152F but anything from 148F to 155F will be just fine) Leave it for an hour at that temp and then sparge to collect your wort. There are FAQs and a Wiki at this site to give you plenty of tips but I would strongly suggest getting a good quality basic brewing book like "How to Brew" by John Palmer. Have fun and enjoy the beer.
Champurrado
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OK, on the bottom of the scale of experience, here goes nothin'. I also use a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom as my MLT. I pre-heat the thing with the hottest tap water I have then add my strike water. I make sure the water coming out of the kettle is hotter than the temperature I want for my strike. (e.g., if I have 8.75 lbs. of grain and I'm using a 1.25 / 1 ratio, I heat water to 168+- to achieve 164 in the MLT for a final mash temp of 150-151.
My sources are Palmer, Beersmith, this fine forum and previous attempts to go it alone.
My sources are Palmer, Beersmith, this fine forum and previous attempts to go it alone.
boo boo
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I soak all my grain at between 147 to 154f for a minimum of 60 minutes all the time
Seriously though, you are doing a protien mash at those temps ( 120f ) and it really isn't needed for the well modified grain available today, unless you want what such a rest gives/takes away from you.
Most of us just do a single infusion at conversion temps and forget it.
Weird.. I do the same thing
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my work internet block me from accessing Palmers website, so I reached behind me in my cubicle and grabbed my actual copy of the cabinet.
p144 - "The use of a 20 minute rest at termperatrues near 104 has been shown to be beneficial to improving the yield from the enzymatic results. This step is considered optional but can improve the yield by a couple points.
maybe it will take your preboil gravity from 1.054 to 1.056. Is that worth your time or could you just throw in another lb of base grain to your recipe.
With your first AG brew here don't worry about exacts. Just worry about going through the motions, getting as close to your mash temp as possible and see what kind of OG you come up with vs what your recipe says it should be.
Do you have brewing software? A great investment. I use Beersmith. Good luck, it will be great beer, just maybe 6% instead of 6.4% abv
p144 - "The use of a 20 minute rest at termperatrues near 104 has been shown to be beneficial to improving the yield from the enzymatic results. This step is considered optional but can improve the yield by a couple points.
maybe it will take your preboil gravity from 1.054 to 1.056. Is that worth your time or could you just throw in another lb of base grain to your recipe.
With your first AG brew here don't worry about exacts. Just worry about going through the motions, getting as close to your mash temp as possible and see what kind of OG you come up with vs what your recipe says it should be.
Do you have brewing software? A great investment. I use Beersmith. Good luck, it will be great beer, just maybe 6% instead of 6.4% abv
WApilot
Member
S/S kettle with FB, heat water to 168F, add grains, and apply heat if needed to adjust temp. Pretty simple.
ChemE
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I always dough-in but I do it at 104°F. BeerSmith always nails my strike water temperature but then again I've taken the time to weigh my MLT and set the correct initial temperatures for both the grain and the MLT. I dough-in because I like to do decoction mashes and I want to be sure there are plenty of enzymes in the liquid to get full conversion. My efficiency ranges between 88% and 92% but YMMV.
104 would be a acid rest. Highly modified malts will not benefit much from using one. 120 is a protein rest and is usually used for adjunct grains.
ChemE
Well-Known Member
But well modified grains require hours to lower the pH. We're talking about 20 minutes to allow the enzymes to diffuse out of the grist. Any change in pH is incidental and not a bad thing anyway.
I think your all right but slightly wrong,...I just won a Gold and a Best Of Show Silver with this method.
I use two 10 gallon converted coolers then but have recently graduated to a 25 gls false bottom tun. I heat 10 gls of 145degree strike water for 20lbs of grain or less or 150 for 20 or more. I use the traditional 1qt of water to 1lb of grain, I don't preheat nothing, I put have the needed water in each cooler, split the grains in each, top it off and stir. The temp comes to 132-135, let that test for 30 minutes, then drop in 1 pint per lb of boiling water which brings it to 155 for 30-45, then pour in another half a round which should raise it to 158-160 for 10 minutes, then pour 1/4 of your wort out into your kettle and bring just to a boil, put that back in (decoction brewing) which will raise it up to 167-170 and hold that for 20. Recirculate for 15-20 then sparge with 170-175 water. I've been using this method for a while now and my beers cine out soo creamy and heady and rich, 85% almost everytime.
Joy of Honebrewing. Charlie Papazian
I use two 10 gallon converted coolers then but have recently graduated to a 25 gls false bottom tun. I heat 10 gls of 145degree strike water for 20lbs of grain or less or 150 for 20 or more. I use the traditional 1qt of water to 1lb of grain, I don't preheat nothing, I put have the needed water in each cooler, split the grains in each, top it off and stir. The temp comes to 132-135, let that test for 30 minutes, then drop in 1 pint per lb of boiling water which brings it to 155 for 30-45, then pour in another half a round which should raise it to 158-160 for 10 minutes, then pour 1/4 of your wort out into your kettle and bring just to a boil, put that back in (decoction brewing) which will raise it up to 167-170 and hold that for 20. Recirculate for 15-20 then sparge with 170-175 water. I've been using this method for a while now and my beers cine out soo creamy and heady and rich, 85% almost everytime.
Joy of Honebrewing. Charlie Papazian
Its like there are many ways to skin cats.
JVD_X
Well-Known Member
That, my friend, is a pain in the tuchas. I find it's simply better to be happy with 80% efficiency and just deal with either having a half gallon less of wort at the SG I want or, if I really really want that 1/2 gallon of wort, simply add some dry malt extract after the sparge to bring the SG up to the correct range.
