School me on All Grain Brewing

So I am 3 brews into the obsession, a 1 gallon all grain, a 5 gallon partial mash, and a 5 gallon extract (in that order) and I am not really sure about what I am hearing about the all grain brewing. Here is why I am kind of confused.

My first brew was a 1 gallon brew from Brooklyn Brew Shop and it was an all grain brew. Super easy, no crazy equipment needed, just steeped for a hour, strained the grains, poured my wort over the grain strainer two more times to rinse all the sugars out, and then went into my boil.

Why do I need extra special equipment to do all grain brews for a 5 gallon mix. Is it just because of the large amount of grain that I will need and the ability to rinse the grain after steeping? Isn't the process the same as I did for my 1 gallon all grain. I much prefered the process of the all grain I did, but I fear that a brooklyn brew shop kit may take short cuts or is just easier because of the volume. I now have a 10 gallon kettle and think that I can do an all grain with that and my regular equipment, but I am sure I am missing something.

Can someone please explain this to me?

yes it's because of the large amount of grain and having to strain and sparge it. Look into brew in a bag. It's a new all grain technique that is very similar to what you've already done.

jester5120 said:

yes it's because of the large amount of grain and having to strain and sparge it. Look into brew in a bag. It's a new all grain technique that is very similar to what you've already done.

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This

Being an apartment dweller, BIAB was the only practical way for me to go. Now I don't think I'd switch even if I had the space!

Since you already have a 10 gallon pot the only thing that requires the extra space is mashing. You could make a 10 gallon mash tun in a Lowe's/HD round cooler for around 50 bucks total and you'd be set. It's just a cooler with the drain taken out and replaced with a spigot and a mesh drain filter.

This is the thread with all the instructions. I built mine for 50 bucks and have done 25 6 gallon batches with no problems.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

Best part is it's small and the only thing you need. The grain falls out in one clump after you finish which makes cleaning hassle free.

theveganbrewer said:

Since you already have a 10 gallon pot the only thing that requires the extra space is mashing. You could make a 10 gallon mash tun in a Lowe's/HD round cooler for around 50 bucks total and you'd be set. It's just a cooler with the drain taken out and replaced with a spigot and a mesh drain filter.

This is the thread with all the instructions. I built mine for 50 bucks and have done 25 6 gallon batches with no problems.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

Best part is it's small and the only thing you need. The grain falls out in one clump after you finish which makes cleaning hassle free.

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Cheers, fellow vegan brewer.

Steeping grains is a more primitive method of all grain brewing. It is a simple process that allows you to impart some flavor from special grains.

When we talk about all grain here we mean that we process the grain bill by crushing, then extracting what we need to feed to the yeast. It is not difficult but we do need certain types of equipment as well as specific processes such as temperature control.

Spend a bit of time reading here and in no time you will get a flavor for it, no pun intended. You will also find that you get great ideas and advice with this group at HBT.

I already have a huge grain bag, so really the mash tun is just an easier way to strain grains by pouring in the wort and then drain it out back into my kettle, right?

theveganbrewer said:

Since you already have a 10 gallon pot the only thing that requires the extra space is mashing. You could make a 10 gallon mash tun in a Lowe's/HD round cooler for around 50 bucks total and you'd be set. It's just a cooler with the drain taken out and replaced with a spigot and a mesh drain filter.

This is the thread with all the instructions. I built mine for 50 bucks and have done 25 6 gallon batches with no problems.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

Best part is it's small and the only thing you need. The grain falls out in one clump after you finish which makes cleaning hassle free.

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+1, this is the mash tun I use. It was cheap and works great!

formula2fast said:

I already have a huge grain bag, so really the mash tun is just an easier way to strain grains by pouring in the wort and then drain it out back into my kettle, right?

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If you can maintain temps in the grain bag/kettle setup for an hour and then had a way to get your sparge water on the grain bag in a separate pot, probably nothing more than 5 gallons, I guess that would work. In AG, you'd mash the grains, then drain the container, then add more hot water, drain, and boil. But you'd be unable to do that if you did it in one pot.

By maintaining temps, I'd say 148-156 degrees depending on your brew, for 60 minutes. You would probably have to insulate the kettle heavily, but I'm not sure exactly. In my estimation, by the time you insulated it and bought the 2nd smaller kettle, you'd be over the 50 bucks for making the cooler mash tun.

I can maintain the temp in my kettle.

So if I mashed in my kettle for an hour, poured wort into the the homemade mash tun with the grain bag in it, and then drained the mash tun back into my kettle, would that accomplish the same thing? That makes sense in my head, but not sure if it does in practice.

You mash in the cooler, and drain into the kettle.

So I have to heat the water first then add it to the cooler with the grain, and leave it there for an hour and then drain it to the kettle? What is the difference in doing that or leaving it in the kettle at 150-160* for an hour and then pouring it into the cooler and then back into the kettle? I am just trying to understand why you would leave it in the cooler for an hour.

Well, for one, the cooler will maintain temperatures better. Also, if you're going to pour it in to the cooler anyways you might as well start in the cooler. Plus, it's technically possible that the oxidation of the extra pouring could increase the color of the beer a little bit (It may, or perhaps probably would, be imperceptible though.).

Ok, so heat water first, have grain bag in cooler, pour water in cooler, let sit for an hour, then drain into kettle and start the boil...That seems almost too easy. Am I understanding this right? Is that all there is to all grain brewing? Do I need to pour the water over the grains a few times to completely rinse them?

If you're not going to add some kind of drain to your cooler I'd say you might as well just go with brew in a bag in your kettle. You may have to/want to add heat (while stirring to even out the heating of the entire mash) to the mash once or twice to maintain the temp, though. However, normally, unless you're not sparging (adding more water to the initial water, either slowly as the wort drains from the mash tun or after the first runnings) you'll add more water than just the initial strike water that you mix with the grains. This will get you up to something like 15-20% above your target final volume.

You should read www.howtobrew.com.

formula2fast said:

So I have to heat the water first then add it to the cooler with the grain, and leave it there for an hour and then drain it to the kettle? What is the difference in doing that or leaving it in the kettle at 150-160* for an hour and then pouring it into the cooler and then back into the kettle? I am just trying to understand why you would leave it in the cooler for an hour.

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I've gone down the cooler road too and I tell you in my opinion I'd ditch the extra money on the cooler and just use the biab method. I consistently get 75%+ efficiency and no need for another $50 cooler. Take a look at my brew day link below in my signature for a step by step example. Tknice also has a step by step example on the site, so you can see two slightly different approaches based on equipment.

I've been using a 5 gallon round Coleman cooler with a spigot in the bottom. I line it with the cheesecloth bag, putting a small strainer between the bag and inside of the spigot. I add grain to the bag, then pour the heated water in, allowing a little space for hot or cool, to get the temp right. It keeps constant temps well over 90 minutes with the lid on. Then I drain the wort out the spigot into a pot, and pour it over the grain bed many times to sparge, when it looks good, it goes into the kettle to brew. WAY TOO EASY!!!

BTW, save some of the spent malt and add a couple cups the next time you make some French bread, it's excellent!

Both methods produce good beer, it's a question of what equipment you have, what equipment you will want/need to buy in the future and the batch size you do/foresee doing in the future.

I got the cooler because I was doing full boils on the stove and there's no way to fire two large kettles on my stove without taking more than a day to make a batch. The cooler frees up stove space to fire my sparge water. I was also living in an apartment so I couldn't use a burner. The cooler was an apartment-safe option.

Then I started doing smaller batches. You can't really do a one gallon batch in a ten gallon cooler. You'll never get any wort out of it. So I started doing BIAB on the stove for those batches.

Now I live in a house. I still do BIAB for those one gallon batches but I've since bought a turkey fryer and anything over one gallon gets the cooler. I still heat my strike and sparge water on the stove as much as it makes sense to reduce my propane costs.

Just brewed an AG imperial stout with perfect process!!!!


WHAT CHOO GOT????!?!??

You just got served!.....or..er.....SCHOOLED!

formula2fast said:

Ok, so heat water first, have grain bag in cooler, pour water in cooler, let sit for an hour, then drain into kettle and start the boil...That seems almost too easy. Am I understanding this right? Is that all there is to all grain brewing? Do I need to pour the water over the grains a few times to completely rinse them?

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+1 to what all the PP's said. Just wanted to throw out a few points of clarification:

If you are using a grain bag, a cooler may not matter if your kettle holds heat well. The pouring off you and PP's mentioned is part of the sparging... to get the wort off the grain after the mash and rinse more water through.

You can do that one of 100 different ways. I would decide what equipment you have available to use, and do some searching for what people are doing with similar equipment.

Whether you use a beverage cooler, second pot, etc., you will get a similar effect. The BIAB method is great because you can use any vessel without having to worry about how to drain your wort without disturbing the grain-bed. Really, what you want to do is get comfortable with what you're trying to accomplish with each step. Then you can figure out how you want to set up your equipment. And like PP's suggested, read How To Brew and The Joy of Homebrewing. There is some info that's outdated, but conceptually they really explain the how's and why's.

formula2fast said:

Ok, so heat water first, have grain bag in cooler, pour water in cooler, let sit for an hour, then drain into kettle and start the boil...That seems almost too easy. Am I understanding this right? Is that all there is to all grain brewing? Do I need to pour the water over the grains a few times to completely rinse them?

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You don't need a grain bag in the cooler method. It uses a filter on the bottom connected to the spigot that filters out the grain and keeps it out of the wort. Did you get a chance to look at the inner workings of the cooler setup? The inexpensive build uses a braided stainless steel mesh thing like you see connecting the water to your toilet. The wort seeps through the mesh and through the spigot and the grain stays in the cooler.


1) Soak grain in hot water for 1 hour at constant temperature
2) Drain all the water (wort) from the grain. into the kettle.
3) Soak grain in new hot water for 10 minutes at constant temperature
4) Drain all the water (wort) from the grain. into the kettle.
5) Boil wort and make the beer.

Step 2/3 are where you need the additional container because you don't want to soak the grain in the kettle again for the 2nd time, it needs to be 100% new hot water going over the grains.

It seems as if the brew in a bag method would work for me as I would like to not have more equipment unless it is totally necessary. I may try that before making a final decision on whether or not I should invest in the cooler.

Thanks for all the great responses and links. I am going to do some learnin' before I give it a shot, but it seems as if my thinking was fairly close to correct.

theveganbrewer said:

You don't need a grain bag in the cooler method. It uses a filter on the bottom connected to the spigot that filters out the grain and keeps it out of the wort. Did you get a chance to look at the inner workings of the cooler setup? The inexpensive build uses a braided stainless steel mesh thing like you see connecting the water to your toilet. The wort seeps through the mesh and through the spigot and the grain stays in the cooler.


1) Soak grain in hot water for 1 hour at constant temperature
2) Drain all the water (wort) from the grain. into the kettle.
3) Soak grain in new hot water for 10 minutes at constant temperature
4) Drain all the water (wort) from the grain. into the kettle.
5) Boil wort and make the beer.

Step 2/3 are where you need the additional container because you don't want to soak the grain in the kettle again for the 2nd time, it needs to be 100% new hot water going over the grains.

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I see, I was wondering what was keeping the grain out when draining, but after reading your link more carefully, you are removing the hose inside the braided hose. That makes more sense now.

So the strike water is the initial water that I mash in, and the sparge water is extra water that I rinse/heat the second time with, correct?

formula2fast said:

I see, I was wondering what was keeping the grain out when draining, but after reading your link more carefully, you are removing the hose inside the braided hose. That makes more sense now.

So the strike water is the initial water that I mash in, and the sparge water is extra water that I rinse/heat the second time with, correct?

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Yes, those are the technical terms. There are different techniques of mashing, the process of extracting the sugars from the grain, depending on the beer style. There are BIAB, Decoction, Double Infusion, Single Infusion, probably others too. I have some pics here from Beersmith that show the mashing process digitally, with temps and volumes. Might give you another perspective on the process.

Batch Sparge:



Single Infusion:



BIAB:



Double Infusion:

hnsfeigel said:

+1 to what all the PP's said. Just wanted to throw out a few points of clarification:

If you are using a grain bag, a cooler may not matter if your kettle holds heat well. The pouring off you and PP's mentioned is part of the sparging... to get the wort off the grain after the mash and rinse more water through.

You can do that one of 100 different ways. I would decide what equipment you have available to use, and do some searching for what people are doing with similar equipment.

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Excellent point. It really does come down to equipment you have/willing to buy. There are ways to get your kettle to hold heat better, like reflectix.

hnsfeigel said:

BIAB traditionally has a lower efficiency than a false bottom/manifold type mash. I believe this is mainly due to the unrestricted exposure of the water to the grain.

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This I disagree with since you can cancel out the unrestricted exposure with the grain crush. I think the reason people have efficiency problems with biab is that they do a normal crush, as if they were sparging. If you go the biab route you don't need to worry about a stuck sparge, so you can crush the hell out of the grain. Before I got my own mill, I would crush my grains twice at the homebrew store and would easily see 75% or more efficiency.

Additionally, if you like to use a particular grain/water ratio and are forced to add water back to reach you pre-boil water volume, you can pour that water over the grain to extract more sugar.

Again it's just my opinion but you already have the equipment to try biab. If you don't like it, by all means get a cooler and go that route.

Veganbrewer,

That info does help. I may have to look into getting some software like that. Thanks again for all the great info. Who knew there would be so much to know in making beer.

theveganbrewer said:

Yes, those are the technical terms. There are different techniques of mashing, the process of extracting the sugars from the grain, depending on the beer style. There are BIAB, Decoction, Double Infusion, Single Infusion, probably others too. I have some pics here from Beersmith that show the mashing process digitally, with temps and volumes. Might give you another perspective on the process.

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Just a quick clarification on Beersmith since it's a bit wonky regarding BIAB. BIAB is simply the technique of using a bag to brew AG. You can do Decoction, Double Infusion, Single Infusion mash using BIAB. The BIAB profile in Beersmith is just the typical Single Infusion approach used by many BIAB brewers.

BTW, theveganbrewer, I noticed you brewed Denny Conn's porter. I just brewed 10 gallons of that too. Let me know what you think when you taste it!

@scoundrel-

I have enjoyed it. Everyone who drank it in the first few weeks though the bourbon was too noticeable, but at 1 month in, flavors meshed beautifully and it was a great beer. Might use more vanilla if I was to brew it again. I used 2 beans and probably could have gone to 4.

I had an extra cooler laying around in my garage not being used so for me it made sense to convert it to a mash tun following the directions here: http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/mashtun.htm. Apart from the cooler, it cost me around $12 to convert and very little work. Most people use the round beverage coolers, but the rectangle coolers are cheaper and sometimes free on craigslist and work well too. Just my two cents. Whatever route you choose, consistency in your process will be key.

theveganbrewer said:

@scoundrel-

I have enjoyed it. Everyone who drank it in the first few weeks though the bourbon was too noticeable, but at 1 month in, flavors meshed beautifully and it was a great beer. Might use more vanilla if I was to brew it again. I used 2 beans and probably could have gone to 4.

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Wow thanks for the feedback. I thought 2 would be too much. I think I will also go with 4. What bourbon did you use?

scoundrel said:

Wow thanks for the feedback. I thought 2 would be too much. I think I will also go with 4. What bourbon did you use?

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Beans vary in strength too, I used Madagascar ones I got on SpiceSage.com. I'm drawing a bit of a blank on the bourbon. I don't drink it ever, so I got some from my father who said it was a good bottle. I'm thinking it was Maker's Mark, but could be mistaken.

theveganbrewer said:

Beans vary in strength too, I used Madagascar ones I got on SpiceSage.com. I'm drawing a bit of a blank on the bourbon. I don't drink it ever, so I got some from my father who said it was a good bottle. I'm thinking it was Maker's Mark, but could be mistaken.

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Haha, I don't drink bourbon either, so that's why I asked

Good point with the beans. I'll order from them too, based on your experience. Thanks again!