fermenting very hot and fast

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willrope

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WOW! I just brewed my 2nd all grain batch yesterday (pale ale) and the airlock is literally bubbling 5-6 times a second! its also very warm @ 79 degrees. i have it in my converted chest freezer with a temp controller and even that isnt cooling it down. I just turned it down some more to try and cool the wort. the whole room smells sweet like bananas and when i stuck my head down in the freezer to look at the temp, m nose started burning.

I've brewed 2 other batches that didnt take off like this one has. Is this usual? how bad will 12ish hours at a high fermenting temp affect the flavor?
 
Is the thermometer on the carboy/bucket or is it recording the temp inside the freezer?

Also, if your freezer can't keep the temp down, it might be broken.
 
willrope said:
WOW! I just brewed my 2nd all grain batch yesterday (pale ale) and the airlock is literally bubbling 5-6 times a second! its also very warm @ 79 degrees. i have it in my converted chest freezer with a temp controller and even that isnt cooling it down. I just turned it down some more to try and cool the wort. the whole room smells sweet like bananas and when i stuck my head down in the freezer to look at the temp, m nose started burning.

I've brewed 2 other batches that didnt take off like this one has. Is this usual? how bad will 12ish hours at a high fermenting temp affect the flavor?
Click to expand...

The early hours are important for flavors, you're obviously smelling the banana already (typical of high temp). For future batches, chill the wort down to 65-66F before pitching the yeast. Those high temp flavors will be out of style for a pale ale.
 
What yeast are you using?? It's not uncommon to get very different results from the same yeast fermenting at different temperatures.

Personally, for ale yeasts (which is all I use) I aim to chill to the low end of the yeasts temperature range, or even lower. I've pitched yeast into 54F wort that had a range of 60-70F. It fermented in the lower 60's and gave me a great brew in glass. Any time I have a batch creep up into the uppper 1/3-1/4 of it's range, I take steps to cool it back down.
 
Mojzis said:
Is the thermometer on the carboy/bucket or is it recording the temp inside the freezer?

Also, if your freezer can't keep the temp down, it might be broken.
Click to expand...

Yes its on the side of the carboy. Im pretty sure the freezer is good, I just needed to crank the knob on the freezer (not the temp controller) down a little to get it to cool down more. the batch i did last month didnt get this hot so the original setting worked.

thank you,
 
helibrewer said:
The early hours are important for flavors, you're obviously smelling the banana already (typical of high temp). For future batches, chill the wort down to 65-66F before pitching the yeast. Those high temp flavors will be out of style for a pale ale.
Click to expand...

Will leaving it in primary a week or two longer help with the high temp flavors?

I cooled this batch down pretty well, so I thought. I built a wort chiller and it dropped the temp down to the 70's in about 10-15 minutes!

thank you,

bill
 
willrope said:
Will leaving it in primary a week or two longer help with the high temp flavors?

I cooled this batch down pretty well, so I thought. I built a wort chiller and it dropped the temp down to the 70's in about 10-15 minutes!
Click to expand...

Only time will tell how long it will take to get rid of the off flavors, IF it can at all.

IMO/IME, in the 70's is far too warm to pitch ale yeasts. All the ones I use max out at somewhere between 70 and 75F for a fermentation temperature. Pitch temperature should be 5-10F lower than your desired fermentation temperature.

I would focus on getting your chilling method dialed-in so that you can reach the temperatures needed. Or do additional chilling in fermenter (swamp cooler, chamber, etc.) BEFORE you pitch the yeast. You'll get MUCH better beer if you do.
 
Golddiggie said:
What yeast are you using?? It's not uncommon to get very different results from the same yeast fermenting at different temperatures.

Personally, for ale yeasts (which is all I use) I aim to chill to the low end of the yeasts temperature range, or even lower. I've pitched yeast into 54F wort that had a range of 60-70F. It fermented in the lower 60's and gave me a great brew in glass. Any time I have a batch creep up into the uppper 1/3-1/4 of it's range, I take steps to cool it back down.
Click to expand...

I used Nottingham on this batch.

After I pitched (mid-low 70's) I put it right in the cooler thinking the temp would drop even further before fermentation got into full swing! I guess not.

Will the fermentation temp still run away if pitched at a lower temp or does the yeast have a harder time, so to speak, and won't have a chance to get too high? does that question make sense?:)
 
Golddiggie said:
Only time will tell how long it will take to get rid of the off flavors, IF it can at all.

IMO/IME, in the 70's is far too warm to pitch ale yeasts. All the ones I use max out at somewhere between 70 and 75F for a fermentation temperature. Pitch temperature should be 5-10F lower than your desired fermentation temperature.

I would focus on getting your chilling method dialed-in so that you can reach the temperatures needed. Or do additional chilling in fermenter (swamp cooler, chamber, etc.) BEFORE you pitch the yeast. You'll get MUCH better beer if you do.
Click to expand...

Noted, and thank you!

I'm thinking/hoping that it'll still be a decent beer by the time all is said and done.

thanks again,

Bill
 
willrope said:
I used Nottingham on this batch.

After I pitched (mid-low 70's) I put it right in the cooler thinking the temp would drop even further before fermentation got into full swing! I guess not.

Will the fermentation temp still run away if pitched at a lower temp or does the yeast have a harder time, so to speak, and won't have a chance to get too high? does that question make sense?:)
Click to expand...

Nottingham gets positively foul above 72 degrees. It's great at 59-64 degrees or so.

Next time, chill the wort to like 60 degrees, and then pitch the yeast. That will stop this from happening.

Yeast love to get warmer, but hate being cooled, so adding the yeast to cooled wort and then allowing it to rise to 64 degrees or so (max for that strain!) makes them happy. Adding them to too-warm wort and then attempting to chill stresses them, plus leads to off-flavors.
 
In my experience (never used Nottingham yeast, since I'm using all liquid beer yeasts) the yeast will perform best in the temperature range it's listed for. In this case, that's 57-70F.

"The recommended fermentation temperature range of this strain is 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) with good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures (12°C/54°F) that allow this strain to be used in lager-style beer."

It can go at a lower temperature. IMO/IME, it's better to start LOW in the range, or even below, and let the yeast warm the brew as it ferments. All while staying within the yeast's temperature range.

As for what you'll get out of this, no idea. I do know it will have a ton more esters (at the very least) than if you had it fermenting cooler.

BTW, I've only used one yeast that can go to 75F (Wyeast 1728, range is 55-75F). Even then, I target the 60's (no more than mid 60's) for it to ferment at. The rest don't list above 70-72F.

I would plan on letting this one go as long as it takes to either become good to drink, or until you decide to cut your losses and dump it. If you only have the one primary, time to get more. That way you can brew more batches while this one sits around. You could be looking at an extended amount of time before it's ready for bottle/keg. I wouldn't bottle, or keg, it until it tastes great, other than needing carbonation. Otherwise, you're going through more work that will only be a waste of time, effort, space, and caps.

BTW, listen to Yooper... :D
 
Yooper said:
Nottingham gets positively foul above 72 degrees. It's great at 59-64 degrees or so.

Next time, chill the wort to like 60 degrees, and then pitch the yeast. That will stop this from happening.

Yeast love to get warmer, but hate being cooled, so adding the yeast to cooled wort and then allowing it to rise to 64 degrees or so (max for that strain!) makes them happy. Adding them to too-warm wort and then attempting to chill stresses them, plus leads to off-flavors.
Click to expand...

Shoot. I guess I wont expect too much from this batch then.

I guess I'll get the same recipe and try again so at least I can compare the two and see what the difference is between getting it right and not

thank you!!!
 
Golddiggie said:
In my experience (never used Nottingham yeast, since I'm using all liquid beer yeasts) the yeast will perform best in the temperature range it's listed for. In this case, that's 57-70F.

"The recommended fermentation temperature range of this strain is 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) with good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures (12°C/54°F) that allow this strain to be used in lager-style beer."

It can go at a lower temperature. IMO/IME, it's better to start LOW in the range, or even below, and let the yeast warm the brew as it ferments. All while staying within the yeast's temperature range.

As for what you'll get out of this, no idea. I do know it will have a ton more esters (at the very least) than if you had it fermenting cooler.

BTW, I've only used one yeast that can go to 75F (Wyeast 1728, range is 55-75F). Even then, I target the 60's (no more than mid 60's) for it to ferment at. The rest don't list above 70-72F.

I would plan on letting this one go as long as it takes to either become good to drink, or until you decide to cut your losses and dump it. If you only have the one primary, time to get more. That way you can brew more batches while this one sits around. You could be looking at an extended amount of time before it's ready for bottle/keg. I wouldn't bottle, or keg, it until it tastes great, other than needing carbonation. Otherwise, you're going through more work that will only be a waste of time, effort, space, and caps.

BTW, listen to Yooper... :D
Click to expand...

Cool. Thanks for that info! Maybe I'll let this go untill I need the carboy again. I wonder if I could rack it to a secondary at some point and dry hop it or add something to rescue it a bit.

thanks again,

Bill
 
willrope said:
Cool. Thanks for that info! Maybe I'll let this go untill I need the carboy again. I wonder if I could rack it to a secondary at some point and dry hop it or add something to rescue it a bit.

thanks again,

Bill
Click to expand...

I'd give it 2-4 weeks before pulling a taste sample. Sample again 2-4 weeks after that and see IF it's improving at all. IF it is, then you can think about moving to another vessel for long term aging. I would hold off on adding any dry hops to the batch until you've determined it's actually going to be good in glass. Dry hopping will only add so much and it might not do a thing to cover up the damage already done.
 
Golddiggie said:
I'd give it 2-4 weeks before pulling a taste sample. Sample again 2-4 weeks after that and see IF it's improving at all. IF it is, then you can think about moving to another vessel for long term aging. I would hold off on adding any dry hops to the batch until you've determined it's actually going to be good in glass. Dry hopping will only add so much and it might not do a thing to cover up the damage already done.
Click to expand...

Then thats what I'll do. I'll wait a month or so and in the mean time I'll brew the same recipe again and get it right so I can compare the two. Call it an education :cross:
 
So, I finally got around to bottling this beer. 4.5 month cold crash couldnt make it any worse, could it?:cross:
 

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