Exploring "no chill" brewing

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pnj said:
I just brewed on Sunday and didn't chill my beer. I probably did everything wrong, but it's all documented and I'm having fun and that's what matters to me. :)

I left the two kettles on the stove (I'm in an apt.) until the temp was around 180, then I poured both kettles into my six gallon bucket. I didn't have any means to slowly drain the wort, so I got plenty of oxygen in my hot wort.

I hooked up a blow off tube and as the temp dropped, I watched the sanitizer from the blow off bucket get sucked slowly up the tube and the bucket lid was showing serious signs of contraction from the cooling wort. When I woke up the next morning, the bucket was no longer contracted so I suspect my sanitizer was sucked into my bucket.


When the temp was at 78-80, I poured it onto a fresh Nottingham yeast cake. Then I put the bucket into a rubber tote with the blow off tube, water and some ice. The temp dropped down to mid 50's so I guess I used too much ice.

It's now sitting at 64 and bubbling heavily.

I had a lot of fun doing this and it's probably the first time in 40 plus brewing sessions that I truely was able to RDWHAHB. :)

What is the difference between the two containers listed in the OP? I realize one comes in only a 5 gallon (and smaller) size, is that the only main difference? They are half the cost, and I would love to purchase one if they work for this method.
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Size and intended use are the big difference between them. the winpacks are about 6 gallons, so you can no chill, then pitch your yeast and ferment directly in them the next day. No second container. The stackable 5 gallon cans that I use are airtight and I can rack hot wort in them, squeeze out any headspace, seal, and store for long periods of time until I have room in my fermentation cabinet to ferment appropriatly. This is the method the Aussies developed and I have been using the last dcouple of months.
 
chucke said:
Is there a no-chill variation where one uses a plain-Jane ferm bucket instead of a cube?

What are the differences?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Well, last monday I took the plunge.

I turned off the stove, whirlpooled and let it sit for 10 minutes and then racked to a polypropylene fermentation bucket using a silicon hose. It took a mere 3 and a half hours between doughing in and till I had the wort in the bucket.

I pitched at 10 o clock next evening and at 11 the following morning pressure was building up in the airlock. At 6 in the afternoon the airlock had some gunk in it, but the bubbling was quite modest. I guess something pretty vigorous must have happened in the mean time.

To further simplify my process, I have now found out that it is not necessary to aerate the wort if you are using dry yeast.
 
Once you transfer the hot wort, do you cap the bucket with the normal cap... which has a hole for the airlock?

If so, how is the airlock capped?

When the wort cools it will suck air in. How is this addressed?

Thanks,
 
chucke said:
Once you transfer the hot wort, do you cap the bucket with the normal cap... which has a hole for the airlock?

If so, how is the airlock capped?

When the wort cools it will suck air in. How is this addressed?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
Cooling over night in a regular fermentation bucket, is pretty common practice in the German homebrewing scene. Most use the regular lid and stuff the airlock with alcohol/sanitizer wetted cotton.

What I did was to fold a piece of aluminium foil loosely over the airlock. The bacteria travels with the dust, and dust usually doesn't move upwards in the air, especially not when the airflow under the aluminum foil is 1 quart in 14 hours. But well see in a few weeks how well this worked out :D
 
chucke said:
Is there a no-chill variation where one uses a plain-Jane ferm bucket instead of a cube?

What are the differences?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

chucke said:
Once you transfer the hot wort, do you cap the bucket with the normal cap... which has a hole for the airlock?

If so, how is the airlock capped?

When the wort cools it will suck air in. How is this addressed?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

I've done just that on several beers now. Sometimes I sanitize the thermometer that came with my turkey fryer and stick that down in the hole-- burp it a couple of times if you think you need to but I haven't found the need. Seriously, in a 6.5 gallon bucket the pressure is like 4-6 psi difference between the outside and the inside of the bucket-- no big deal. After it cools, I rack and aerate into a carboy and pitch yeast.

I've also used a airlock with foil over it (no fluid) and sanitized foil with a quarter on top.

easy.
 
Just brewed up a saison that's cooling down in my winpack as I type. First time using some of the wort for a starter so we'll see how that goes (usually use slants so I have to get them going earlier).
 
Quick question, I apologize if this was already listed.

If a chilled recipe calls for a flameout addition and a dry hop, when I convert to No-Chill using the hop chart, I would move both of these additions to a dry-hop? Is there benefit from dryhopping with 2 oz instead of 1 oz? Thanks in advance.
 
Bullbythehorns said:
Is there benefit from dryhopping with 2 oz instead of 1 oz? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

What I do sometimes is add one ounce dry-hop, then wait a few days and add the second. It may all be in my head, but I think I get a larger "spectrum" of hop flavor/aroma.

But adding the ounce to dry-hop, or not doing it, either way is probably fine.
 
The Pol said:
Cooling in a sealed container causes extreme vacuum. Buckets can buckle.
Click to expand...
Pol, I just got my wynpak, do I seal the hot wort in it and let it cool, or do I install the stopper, airlock and sanitized cotton ball to let pressure equalize? I was a little worried about vacuum, but I had hoped the wynpak could handle it. Please advise
 
How do you guys clean these things? I search but didn't see anything on this subject.
 
when i do no chill(been doing it for a long time although i only store the wort untill its cool rnough to pitch, not weeks/months like some people), i usually keep the hop schedule the same for the recipe but usually just remove the hop bag a minute or 2 after flameout
 
That surprises me... I have to change the hop schedule, since the length of time at near boiling temps is still giving me isomerization.
 
McCuckerson said:
I only believe it if I hear it from The Pol, he is the "no chill demi-god";)
Click to expand...

What-ever...

WinPaks can handle the boiling temps and vaccuum and pop right back, over and over again.

Some people install airlocks and cotton, but I like to fill the WinPak, then seal it up and flip it upside down to heat sanitize the top for 20 minutes or so, then flip it back over. Try doing that with an ailock!

I will be doing this live on a webcast tomorrow. :D
 
Are there any resources out there that address how to handle especially high-acid bittering hops? I'd like to do a recipe with only sorachi ace (13%). I'd like to do this no-chill. I agree with Pol's suggested hop schedule; it has worked well for me for 2 brews now. But, I am concerned with putting in such high percentage hops at flameout and letting them sit for hours at high temps. I don't want to end up with super bitter beer.

Or perhaps it is the group consensus that using lower percentage hops is more approptiate to this style of brew?
 
Also. I have good news. I served a case of no-chill pale ale at my lil girls B-day party last weekend. It was very well received overall. I think its a great beer and approaches commercial quality with regard to taste, aroma and mouthfeel.

My only gripe with the brew is the cloudyness. It is moderately cloudy. To be fair, I did not use ANY fining agents in the boil or primary so that may be the culprit.

I used WLP 051 Cal Ale V yeast, pitched July 18, I left it in Primary until Aug 19. Then Added 1 ounce of fuggles for dry hop. Bottled on the 24th of Aug. Served on the 19th of September.

I'll soon be reporting on a follow-up: an american amber style no chill, also with no finings and I'll be bottling that this week. It will be interesting to see if it is clear or not.

Overall, I like this style of brewing because it takes a lot less time because I have no decent way to chill 5+gallons of wort quickly.
 
so on the chart, "transfer" just means flameout (then remove when pouring into carboy/winpack)?
 
also the chart doesnt mention what to do if the orginal recipe has FWH in it, keep it the same?
 
bkov said:
also the chart doesnt mention what to do if the orginal recipe has FWH in it, keep it the same?
Click to expand...

FWIW, I don't think you can exactly replicate a recipe with no-chill. You can get close. I also use most recipes as a starting point anyway, so it isn't a huge deal to me. Last few beers have all been 60 minutes and cube-hopped. Been turning out well. I over hopped a few of my early ones, but so far so good on last few batches.

Pol, don't think you ever said exactly why you were moving away from cube-hopping (or at least updated the chart to that effect).
 
The Pol said:
That surprises me... I have to change the hop schedule, since the length of time at near boiling temps is still giving me isomerization.
Click to expand...

ive read for bitter hops, "There is some improvement in the isomerization between 45 and 90 minutes (about 5%), but only a small improvement at longer times ( <1%). (howtobrew)"

also for finishing hops, "When hops are added during the final minutes of the boil, less of the aromatic oils are lost to evaporation and more hop aroma is retained."
but with no chiller, i always have the lid on(wether be on the pot or carboy) so i cant be losing a significant amount due to evaporation(verus a chiller chilling in the pot)?

"Hop resins act like oil in water. It takes the boiling action of the wort to isomerize them, which means that the chemical structure of the alpha acid compounds is altered so that the water molecules can attach and these compounds can dissolve into the wort. The percentage of the total alpha acids that are isomerized and survive into the finished beer, i.e. utilized, is termed the "utilization". Under homebrewing conditions, utilization generally tops out at 30%."
 
If I dont adjust my hop additions, my beers end up WAY too hoppy... much hoppier than thier IC'd counterparts.

Not going to argue the fact here, but this was explained back in early '09 in BYO along with a temp. chart to show the reason that late hop additions in no chill wort were contributing so much bitterness to the beers. I based my brews and chart on this information from the Aussies that they took thier cues from in the publication.

If no adjustment works for you, keep doing it, disregard the chart. I do what works for me, you should continue to do the same.

As for aroma... I always prefer to dry hop for aroma.
 
I dont do the cube hop now because I feel like I can get the same result from a "flame out" addition and keep the extra hop junk out of the fementor.
 
The Pol said:
I dont do the cube hop now because I feel like I can get the same result from a "flame out" addition and keep the extra hop junk out of the fementor.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, bcs your cube is your fermenter. Makes sense. I always transfer, but bcs I bought a 5 gal cube and already have a bunch of buckets and better bottles.

Where should I do spice additions? like for a wit? in the cube?
 
bakins said:
Gotcha, bcs your cube is your fermenter. Makes sense. I always transfer, but bcs I bought a 5 gal cube and already have a bunch of buckets and better bottles.

Where should I do spice additions? like for a wit? in the cube?
Click to expand...

I always spice late in the boil... none of the spice ever goes to the cube.
 
i figure ill give the chart a try on my next brew(eds haus ale). does this look correct?

orginal hop schedule:
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.
Click to expand...

no chiller schedule:
.13 cascade FWH
1oz cascade at 40 min
.5 cascade at 10mins
.25 cascade dryhop
Click to expand...
 
You know, I've been wondering ... wonder what the outcome would be if I added hops after the wort had cooled, say an hour after flameout. Seems like you could keep most of your aromatic oils that way. I don't know what the temperature is where you stop extracting bitterness, but it would be neat to know.

This might not make sense, but it does in my head.
 

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