Using Liqueur as Priming Sugar, Any Experience?

***EDIT - Mosher makes the idea seem simple but his calculation is somewhat confusing and it's likely I did it wrong since I don't completely understand it. Thus, I think I probably botched my introduction here making it hard for anyone to help. But I still think priming with liqueur is an interesting idea. There is a related thread called "Priming with Liqueur" that provided great information on the topic, but is somewhat incomplete in itself. I am hoping that with that thread in conjunction with this thread we may be able to figure out how to actually pull this off. I would suggest completely skipping everything else written in this first post and read the rest if you are interested in the topic.***

I am going off another Randy Mosher idea to add liqueur to your batch as your are bottling which allows you to use the sugar in the liqueur as priming sugar. If anyone has experience doing this I could use some help double checking my work so as not to have bottle bombs or under carbonated beer.

I will be using Frangelico. It’s a 750 ml bottle (25oz.) at 20% (40 proof). I took a measurement of the liqueur and it is at 1.071, which I figure to be 17.75 degrees P. My math, copying Mosher’s work, goes like this:

17.75 degrees P, 40 proof
40 (proof) x 1.06 P = 4.24 P (correction for alcohol)

Add for alcohol: 17.75 + 4.24 = 22 degrees P (% sugar)
Liqueur quantity: 25 oz (by weight) x 22% (sugar, as Plato) = 5.5 oz. sugar.
Thus I should have 5.5 oz. of sugar in the whole bottle, and should not have to add any extra corn sugar as I normally would.

I hope this thread is intelligible and not completely ambiguous on the beginners board.

Ok, but what does adding 25oz of 20% abv alcohol do to the 5gallon batch?

will it exceed teh ABV the yeast can tolerate...thus no bottle priming will occur since the yeast go into hibernation?

be sure to run those calculations.

You will find some good info in the similar threads box below. VVVVVVVV

You may want to do a test, all of the sugar in it may not be fermentable by the yeasts we use.

malkore said:

will it exceed teh ABV the yeast can tolerate...thus no bottle priming will occur since the yeast go into hibernation?

be sure to run those calculations.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion bud. I used Wyeast London ESB which according to their website has a tolerance of 10%. My OG was 1.070, and my FG 1.010. I understand my 750ml bottle of 20 ABV will add no more than 1% alcohol to the ABV of my beer. So I think I’m good there.

Any suggestions on whether I’m making bottle bombs or bottled flat beer?

Revvy said:

You will find some good info in the similar threads box below.

Click to expand...

Revvy, good advice. I found a thread that you yourself had posted on about a year ago. In that thread he used a full bottle of liqueur at 8g of sugar per fluid ounce and said it was a bit over carbonated. He even admits that according to his own math he should have used 18oz instead of the full 25oz.

My bottle is apparently 10.9g/ fluid ounce, however, this information is given for a 48 proof bottle and mine is only 40 proof. Thus, should I assume an extra gram or two of sugar? Either way, I’m thinking maybe I should just do half the bottle, maybe a little extra, and no additional priming sugar.

If you go to the related thread “Priming with Liqueur” you’ll find a much simpler calculation for figuring out how much liqueur to prime with. But because of its simplicity and the ambiguity of its source I am a little skeptical. So here is what I’ve decided on:

From using the other man’s method I figured I should use about 13oz of Frangelic to prime with, about half of what I got from Mosher’s calculation. Given the amount of sugar in the liqueur the other man was using it seems to be about the same. But to be on the safe side I am going to bump it up 3oz and make it an even pint. It seems too easy but I think it just might work. Let’s hope, because this is a holiday brew for the family.

Update here. The beer is a bit premature in the bottle still, but I just cracked one open and the liqueur worked perfectly. I used some spices in the brew and I think the Frangelico blended in very nicely. I will definitely do something like this again.

Wow, what a GREAT idea. I've offered to make a clone of Rogue's Hazelnut Brown Ale for a friend, and now you've got me thinking...

I assume the hazelnut flavor continues to be present in the finished beer?

khiddy said:

I assume the hazelnut flavor continues to be present in the finished beer?

Click to expand...

Yes, I can taste it some, but like I said, it blended in well. I used some spices including cloves, ginger, cinnamon, etc, and so it is not overly pronounced. Don't expect it to give the flavor a big punch. It's more like a subtle finish to the beer.

Awesome. A subtle hazelnut taste sounds right to match what the commercial Rogue Hazelnut Brown Ale has, so here's what I've worked up based on your quantity of 16oz for a batch.

Size: 5.5g
Expected OG: 1.057
Expected FG: 1.014 (plus whatever the liqueur adds)
Yeast: 2 packets Nottingham Dry Ale Yeast, rehydrated
Expected color: 20SRM (medium brown)

Fermentables
Hops
Additions

I keg, so I'll add 10oz of Frangelico first, taste the blend, and add more as needed, comparing the actual Rogue product side-by-side until I get it right. Then I'll use a counter-pressure filler to bottle this up for my friend who lives across the country.

I'd appreciate some feedback on the recipe, and I'll report back here on how it goes!

khiddy, the recipe looks great. I forgot Rogue did a hazelnut brown, I might have to steal your recipe.

Just so you know, the Frangelico was meant as a substitute for priming sugar. My carefully measured 16 oz was considered more for carbonation than for flavor. 10 oz of Frangelico added to 5 gallons of beer before kegging probably won’t do much to the flavor or ABV. You might want to try ¾ or more of the bottle and let it sit on it for a 3 or so weeks since you are kegging.

I would recommend you check out the section on “potions” in Randy Mosher’s Radical Brewing, in the chapter ‘Hops are Just Another Herb Mon.’ That’s the same place I got the idea for priming with liqueur. Potions are a mix of spices infused with vodka to get a much more pungent flavor. The liqueur will give your beer a nice finishing touch but it will not be too crazy.

I'll definitely read up in RB then, my buddy has a copy which he offered to loan me. It's a tome I've been intending to read, and I'll head straight for that section.

I appreciate the advice on the amount of Frangelico, as well. When I was searching around for recipes to clone the Rogue beer, most recipes recommended using 1oz or so of a commercially prepared hazelnut flavoring at bottling. I may have to split the 5 gallon batch, use Frangelico in one and the hazelnut flavoring in the other. That way I can do a side-by-side to see which tastes closer to the real thing, after giving them time to meld in kegs like you suggest.

I think you have the right idea, and if you test it first you will be fine. However, I think there is a big difference between a liqueur and a flavoring agent in the way you plan to use it.

A liqueur is more sugar, water and alcohol than any of the flavors in it. The alcohol intensifies the flavors and the sugar makes it tolerable. When you pour it into your beer the alcohol will mix with the alcohol already present, the sugar will be eaten and turned into alcohol, and you will be left with the little bit of hazelnut flavor left over. 1 oz of liqueur would likely be indistinguishable in 5 gallons of beer.

A commercially prepared hazelnut flavoring would be something more akin to hazelnut extract. This would be something more like the potions I described above with much more potency and much more affect on your beer. Thus, it would make sense to use a very small amount and see the subtle effects from there. I am not sure how much hazelnut flavoring would be in a bottle of Frangelico but I’m willing to bet in a 25oz. bottle it’s not more than an ounce or two.

Definitely do your tests and go with what you’re comfortable with, but realize that Frangelico is NOT a commercially prepared hazelnut flavoring, it’s a hazelnut flavored liqueur.

And check out what RM has to say right after his bit on liqueurs, “There are also a number of commercially prepared flavoring extracts meant for making homemade liqueurs… Many of these, like hazelnut and crème de cacao, are difficult to extract on your own and are well worth using.”

Read the Mosher sections on herbs, spices and potions, then do some tests. You’ll blow Rogue out of the water.