beer won't clear

hi, i wld appreciate some advice.have just bottled a youngs"brewbuddy"lager kit.it had fermented down from 1059 to 1010 in5 days and then stayed at 1010 for 2.it was beginning to drop clear so was time to bottle.however after priming half tsp per pint and leaving 3 days it still wont show any signs of clearing.sometimes the top 2" or so clears cystal then later is cloudy again without having touched the bottles.u can see clouds of suspension swirling around at the slightest touch but never settling.i have made many dozens of brews over the years but not had this before.

minexplorer said:

hi, i wld appreciate some advice.have just bottled a youngs"brewbuddy"lager kit.it had fermented down from 1059 to 1010 in5 days and then stayed at 1010 for 2.it was beginning to drop clear so was time to bottle.however after priming half tsp per pint and leaving 3 days it still wont show any signs of clearing.sometimes the top 2" or so clears cystal then later is cloudy again without having touched the bottles.u can see clouds of suspension swirling around at the slightest touch but never settling.i have made many dozens of brews over the years but not had this before.

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How long was it in secondary?
It sounds like you did not give it long enough time for the yeast to flocculate out. Lagers need TIME. The longer the better. My current Vienna lager spent about 10 days in primary and has been in secondary for two weeks and has at least 3 more to go.
My pilsner was very cloudy when racked to secondary. It took about 3 days to flocculate.
How does it taste?

minexplorer said:

hi, i wld appreciate some advice.have just bottled a youngs"brewbuddy"lager kit.it had fermented down from 1059 to 1010 in5 days and then stayed at 1010 for 2.it was beginning to drop clear so was time to bottle.however after priming half tsp per pint and leaving 3 days it still wont show any signs of clearing.sometimes the top 2" or so clears cystal then later is cloudy again without having touched the bottles.u can see clouds of suspension swirling around at the slightest touch but never settling.i have made many dozens of brews over the years but not had this before.

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What temp did you primary at? Is it only cloudy when it's cold? If thats the case then you have chill haze and you will want to lager it longer so the proteins will drop out.

thanx guys.lager kits here in the uk use ale not true lager yeast (shop have confirmed this)so shouldnt need a long secondary stage lagering.its staying cloudy at room temp.i fermented at the manufacturers recomended 18-21c.instructions are,as soon as its steady at 1010 or less for 2 days and starting to clear to proceed to bottling.this has always worked on every ale ive ever done either kit or mash.nevertheless do u think i should try putting into demijohns under airlock even though its seemingly finished?

I would add some gelatin to clear it... wait a few days, then add some priming sugar and bottle.

If I am understanding correctly you bottled the brew at 7 days. If that is a fact that is the reason its cloudy.

Joker said:

If I am understanding correctly you bottled the brew at 7 days. If that is a fact that is the reason its cloudy.

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+1 there. That is what I read from it as well.

10 days is not nearly enough time for the natural sedimentation process even if you have a highly flocculant yeast strain. It takes at a bare minimum 2 weeks post bottling to get clarity (in general, no filtering). Some yeast strains make this take longer. What facilitates the clearing process is if you have fully carbonated (I am guessing probably not at this point, so it needs to stay longer at ferment temp) beer, you can drop the temperature very cold, even put it in the fridge if you are in a hurry. However, I don't really recommend this because you don't want to arrest the aging process.

The long and short of it is, that you should carbonate in the bottle roughly 10 days to 2 weeks, and condition in the 50's (if you can) for 3 or more weeks after that.

Ok I take it back, 2 weeks minimum is just my general kind of rule of thumb. I don't even look at it for clarity until it has some age.

I am putting money on the yeast strain. I have some natural cider that has been clearing since October. It's not done yet. There is nothing wrong with your brew though.

Oh and....Welcome to the forums!

If you choose not to use a secondary (I often do not), then leave you beer in the primary for two to three weeks. In any case, take heart, the haze from suspended particulate will clear over time - a month or two in the bottle will work wonders (as well as mellow and enhance the flavor).

Chill haze is another matter - it's not going away. You can compensate for it by using frosted mugs. That way, the frozen condensation on the outside of the mug will mask the cloudiness. Another option is a ceramic stein.

Agreed that you shouldn't even think about bottling 7 days in primary. Wait at least 3 weeks.

Once it's in the bottles, it will take 2-3 weeks to carbinate at room temp. Once carbonation has been verified, put enough bottles in the fridge to last you a while. You want them to cold condition for at least 3-4 days, but the longer the better. It will clear. You'll always get chill haze if you quickly chill and drink.

It's perfectly acceptable to bottle a beer made with an ale yeast after 7 days as long as fermentation is complete although some may argue that leaving it a little longer in the primary or possibly using a secondary will have taste benefits.
Yeast will remain in suspension as long as there are available sugars, sometimes even when they have given up the ghost. I suspect you used the 5g packet that comes tucked under the lid, these can be months or even years old and wont be in the best of health and as 5g isn't anywhere near enough to ferment a 23L batch the yeast would have been under a great deal of strain, particularly if you used an all malt recipe. It may not have been up to the job.
If this is the case then swirling the yeast in the bottle may help it flocc and eventually sediment out, particularly if you put it some where cool.
Another possibility is a wild yeast got into your beer and it was the wild yeast that fermented it. These are unlikely to settle out as beer yeasts are selected for their sedimentation properties. Have a taste of the beer, it should taste like beer even if it is a little cloudy still. If it does, persevere with it and try swirling the bottles as I suggested.

thanks for the advice everyone.have put into demijohns and it is indeed still fermenting so i think problem solved.i must add though that in the past ive always bottled from the primary once showing signs of clearing and below 1010 and always cleared in the bottles in a couple days.must be this particular yeast.

I guess it depends on your own quality standards. I wouldn't even bottle a hefe until it's been in primary for a week after I hit my FG. Homebrewing isn't for the impatient. I promise you, leaving it in primary for 3 weeks before bottling will not hurt and will definitely help taste/clarity. I don't know why kit instructions encourage such rushing.

Nothing to do with quality standards, the issue was the beer wouldn't clear. An ale that has reached it's predicted FG and bottled will clear of it's own accords. Some say an extended period in the primary is beneficial to allow the yeast to clean up and I subscribe to this theory although it only takes a matter of days, not weeks. Others believe that maturing a beer in bulk whether it be in the primary or a secondary has benefits, again I think there is some merit in this although depending on the yeast strain it may need reinoculating before bottling. None of this has any bearing on the final clarity though, in fact if anything it will clear quicker in the bottle than it will in a bucket as the sediment doesn't have as far to travel.

i must add though that in the past ive always bottled from the primary once showing signs of clearing and below 1010 and always cleared in the bottles in a couple days.must be this particular yeast.

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The yeast and the recipe used, if you have a yeast with a high level of attenuation and have used a lot of sugar in the recipe it will go lower than 1010, I wouldn't expect an FG of less than 1010 if it was an all malt recipe.

been long time since visited forum.thought wld look at a thread i posted.in case anyone looks at this because of similar prob.the brew cleared after a wk anyway so was un duly panicking.however i did return most unnecessarily to demi johns for a wk.
a point to bear in mind this portion despite being re primed at the usual half tsp per pint was always somewhat flattish due to having fermented drier.those i left were nice and fizzy after chilling as a lager should be.
also i found out that other uk brewers that made this particular kit also had clearing probs so i guess it also depends on the manufactuers choice of yeast

You are not texting nor paying by the letter or spaces. It would be much easier to understand what you are asking if you could use some capitalization and spell out the words.

Nurmey said:

You are not texting nor paying by the letter or spaces. It would be much easier to understand what you are asking if you could use some capitalization and spell out the words.

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Ha,guess thats me told off.Yes on reflection it doesnt look to neat does it.So used to texting,an it still took an hour to write.

Not really wanting to tell you off, it's just hard for us old folks to read.