Help Me Figure Out How to Brew With Back Problems

Hey,

I figured I'd ask for help since there's a lot of good info and suggestions on this forum.

Here's the scoop. I started having back problems about a month ago and finally saw a specialist 2 weeks ago. As it turns out, I have Degenerative Joint Disease and Spinal Stenosis. The bottom line is that I can't stand or sit for a long period of time because of the pain. (By the way, I'm only 38 years old.).

It would take a load off my shoulders (no pun intended) if I could break up the brew process into 2 days. Maybe steep the specialty grains on one day, then finish up the rest of the process the next day. At this time I'm only doing extract brewing.

I have no idea if this can be done or what it would do to the "tea."

I'm all ears..

Thanks In Advance,
Elias

Sorry to hear about that...

But does steeping your grains really take that long? It shouldn't. Drop it in the water when you start heating, and pull it out when you hit 170ºF or so. If you do it like that, steeping a day ahead won't save you any time. There are certainly other things you can do to save time.

Hmm, the total process for extract brewing should be roughly 2 hours. Are you finding that you need to lie down during this time? I don't know what steeping one day and boiling the next would do. I suppose it would be okay but I've never tried it and don't know what the downside would be. Sorry to hear about your back; I just had back surgery in March.

I have 5 herniated discs so I hear ya on the pain after sitting/standing too long. I use a pump to transfer all of my wort so I don't have to lift any vessels full of water or grain and I have a nice, comfy fold up chair that I use when I brew so I can rest whenever I need to. Not sure if this applies to your condition but strengthening exercises and stretches that I learned in rehab help out tremendously when done consistently.

If you want to start all-grain brewing, using a march pump to move wort or water from the HLT, MLT or Kettle will save a ton of heavy lifting. Use a charcoal filter on a garden hose it you have decent tap water, as that will make filling up HLT/MLT a lot easier.

For extract the above will work also, especially filling the boil kettle. I would probably get a larger boil kettle to do full 5 gallon batches so you dont have to react to boil-overs. A 10 gallon would probably be best.

For clean-up, just use PBW and soak everything overnight - this eliminates all that scrubbing!

Thanks Guys. Yeah, it sucks.

It sounds like DrinksWell is kind of in the same ball park as me.

i haven't thought about doing all grain yet. It feels like I'm still learning and that I have a lot more to learn before I go to all grain.

I do have a pond pump that I use for my IC. I wonder if I clean it that it will be clean enough to transfer the wort into the fermenter. I could use rollers to get the fermenter into the closet.

It's been taking my about 2.5 hours to brew. I figured that steeping the grains a day before would knock off about 45 minutes. That way, the next day would only take my about 1.25 to 1.5 hours. So yes, 2.5 hours is way too much on my back. Right now if I do too much, I'm curled up in the fetal position like a baby.

I'm not sure that my stove can boil 5 gallons. I need to check into that.

DrinksWell - Right now the doctor and physical therapist are just working on managing the pain. They are having me do some stretches and very mild/light exercises.


*hmmm.. Thinking... Thinking.. *

Thanks
E

I also suggest a pump. I would NOT use a pond pump, that is asking for troubles. Harbor Freight carries a small pump that is run off of a drill. I know some of the folks here use these. They are about $10 if I recall correctly.

The other thing I suggest is a heat stick. This will reduce the time it takes to get the wort to a boil...

The other option would be make smaller batches...while the time my be decreased slightly the weight will be decreased MUCH more so you could mange things better.

The real solution is to drink more to drown the pain while brewing...
Or, read "Treat Your Own Back" on how to fix your problem.

Look into brew in a bag and other alternative brewing methods. There was a method posted here a couple of months ago about transfering boiling wort to containers and letting it sit over night to come to temp prior to pitching.

I have back problems as well, but not as serious as you, I'm sorry.

2 summers ago I really needed to find ways to make things easier on my back. The 2 best things i did were:

-switch to moving all liquids via a march pump - no more lifting and dumping gallons of hot liquid

-get a drinking water safe garden hose. This made it so I didn't have to fill my pots at the sink and move them outside. I can go straight from the hose to the kettle.

Now I brew all grain outside, so I don't know how much these things will help you, but hopefully it can give you some ideas.

take care of your back, you only get one, and one it doesn't cooperate, EVERYTHING is difficult.

Monkey55 said:

DrinksWell - Right now the doctor and physical therapist are just working on managing the pain. They are having me do some stretches and very mild/light exercises.

Click to expand...

When I first started brewing with a bad back I was brewing extract on the stovetop. All of my herniated discs are in the thoracic region so lifting anything over 20 pounds or in awkward positions was a no go. For about a year or so I only brewed with one of my friends that would do all of my lifting for me. Over time I stepped up to AG after I went through a couple of years of physical therapy; unfortunately, I'm not a candidate for surgery due to the location of problematic discs (hoping for a bionic spine in the future).

Some other things I do (or have done in the past) to continue brewing:

Move water/wort/etc in smaller quantities. I'd rather make 2 trips with 2.5 gallons of water than 1 trip with 5 gallons of water.

Use a dolly to move carboys around. And use Brewhauler straps to make lifting less awkward.

You'll need a high temp, food safe pump to move wort. I grabbed a March pump on sale at AHS and use this to transport all of my liquids now.

Only brew when you feel up to it. Stop if there's any doubt. 5 gallons of beer isn't worth being laid up for a couple weeks after throwing your back out.

Prep as much as you can the day before so you'll spend less time on your feet on brew day. And if you can put off cleaning/putting something away until the day after brew day then do that as well.

Start kegging. It'll save you time and you won't be bent over a table capping bottles for a couple of hours.

Don't use a secondary. It's just more unnecessary work and lifting.

Like I said before, get a comfy chair to use while brewing. Sometimes during the mash or boil I'll even lay down for a bit to ease my back.

Take some Advil/pain relievers during brewing so that they're working by the time you're done.

A plate chiller took a significant amount of time off my brew day. Its not as necessary as a pump but it helps.

Really the best thing that has helped me is strengthening exercises. I became severely deconditioned when I was hurt and the stronger my back becomes, the easier it is to sit/stand/etc for extended periods of time and the less likely I am to throw my back out after lifting something.

I actually haven't brewed for a while due to work so I'm sure I'm missing a lot of little tips but I've responded to a few "brewing with a bad back" threads so I'm sure you can find more useful info using the search function.

Good luck with the docs and physical therapy.

I had back surgery a few years back. I found Bikram yoga was AMAZING at helping me with pain.

If/when my back gets bad again, I plan on building as automated of a system as I can. People have mentioned pumps. That is the first thing I would do.

You can, with enough money, build a nearly 100% automated system.

I have 4 bad discs, one that had to get removed when I lost feeling in my leg in March and another that's poking a nerve root, so I know where you're at.

I was lucky enough to have my new rig finished before the problems got real bad, so I already had an electric keggle system with a March pump. After the surgery I had to take a while off brewing, but when I came back to it I got 30' of 3/8" silicon tubing. That's been invaluable. I set up, then use a hose to fill the MT/LT and for sparging. From there all the transfers are via pump. When the wort is cooled I set the sanitized fermenter in place on it's shelf then hook up that 30' silicon and pump the wort into it from my patio. It takes a while, but is a lot better than blowing another disc. I also got some of the wire shelves from cosco and I ferment on the top shelf, so that I can siphon down into my kegs, which I put in place in the kegerator or chest freezer before filling them. So far so good.

Once you get it to boiling you don't have to stand/sit there watching it...I go take a nap after the hot break lol. I set an alarm for when the next hop addition is. I lay down during the mash too.

trigger said:

I have 4 bad discs, one that had to get removed when I lost feeling in my leg in March and another that's poking a nerve root, so I know where you're at.

I was lucky enough to have my new rig finished before the problems got real bad, so I already had an electric keggle system with a March pump. After the surgery I had to take a while off brewing, but when I came back to it I got 30' of 3/8" silicon tubing. That's been invaluable. I set up, then use a hose to fill the MT/LT and for sparging. From there all the transfers are via pump. When the wort is cooled I set the sanitized fermenter in place on it's shelf then hook up that 30' silicon and pump the wort into it from my patio. It takes a while, but is a lot better than blowing another disc. I also got some of the wire shelves from cosco and I ferment on the top shelf, so that I can siphon down into my kegs, which I put in place in the kegerator or chest freezer before filling them. So far so good.

Click to expand...

Thats a brilliant use of that pump/gravity. I have a herniated L4/L5 disc (I am only 25 BTW) and when it is acting up I think about ways I can ease the pain of lifting/carrying all that beer. It has gotten a lot better since I started stretching/strengthening it frequently, but if it gets bad its great to know there are options out there.

You can cold steep the grains 24 hours ahead of time, then boil the next day and add the cold steeped liquid (strained) to the boil for about the last 5 minutes.

Use around twice as much specialty grains if you cold steep.

For more info on cold steeping, search for a post by George Fix on Homebrew Digest or read Gordon Strong's Brewing Better Beer.

With your condition, don't go all-grain unless you can buy pumps right off the bat and be automated enough that you can sit most of the time and not do much lifting. Another all-grain tip is to use a shop vac to empty the mash tun (rather than picking up and dumping). The shop vac can then be wheeled somewhere and dumped. A tippy-dump is a much more complicated but cooler solution.

Also c02, even if you don't keg, can be used to push liquid rather than siphoning, so you don't have to lift a fermenter in place to siphon. There is a write-up on pressurized transfer on the Maltose Falcons website. B3 sells a self priming pump for about $130 that can be used for transferring finished beer (cannot be used with hot liquids).

Another option may be a brew buddy.

as a alternative to a march pump I use a lift table to put my BK on when its time to transfer to fermenters I just raise the BK on the lift table an transfer by gravity. I know many love the march pump but the benefit of using gravity is I don't have to prime the pump or have to clean it after every use, plus gravity never breaks. I also use the lift table to roll over to my chest freezer (ferm chamber) and lift the fermenters to the top of the freezer so all I have to do is just set the fermenters down into the freezer. I also have back issues and this does help.

OK, first of all.. i'm going to give you my 2 cents on back pain advice... everyone is an expert, and everyone is willing to tell you "what really works" (not that i'm implying any of the advice here is bad, just remember that all backs are different, and what works for one guy, might not work for you).

Degenerative joint disease, djd, or osteoarthritis does NOT automatically mean you are sentenced to a life of pain and misery. The amount of degeneration does NOT necessarily correlate to the amount of pain. You have options as far as treatment.

spinal stenosis is a narrowing of the spinal canal. It may be the cause of your problems, or it may be asymptomatic at this point, and essentially just an underlying factor. Typically, what stenosis causes is pain in the legs upon walking that is alleviated by sitting or sitting leaning forward. Symptomatic stenosis may or may not respond to conservative care, some need surgery.

What specialist have you seen, and what treatment was offered??? Seriously, you should be consulting with a chiropractor (full disclosure, I am one) or a physical therapist. Without knowing the details of your condition, I am unable to give you a prognosis, but in all seriousness it sounds like you are believing that you just have to "live with it", when that may not be the case. If you have only been offered the choice of drugs or surgery I strongly strongly strongly urge you to seek another avenue. Feel free to PM me if you like, I'm not being a commercial for chiropractors here, but I can't stand to see a fellow brewer suffer when there may be more help available.

Well, I tried brewing 2 nights ago and I had to stop. I ended up just steeping the speciality grains. I put the lid on it, then put sanitized plastic wrap around the top. Yesterday I finished the rest.

We'll see how it turns out.

I'll definitely be looking into a march pump. I was able to boil 4 gallons on my stove, but it took about 40 minutes to get up to that temp.

pdxal said:

The real solution is to drink more to drown the pain while brewing...
Or, read "Treat Your Own Back" on how to fix your problem.

Click to expand...

It's funny that you say this because whenever I have pain, beer usually makes it hurt more. However, a few beers really helps with the pain. I'm guessing because my muscle become relaxed. The downside is that I start moving faster and I feel it the next day.

marcycaulkins said:

OK, first of all.. i'm going to give you my 2 cents on back pain advice... everyone is an expert, and everyone is willing to tell you "what really works" (not that i'm implying any of the advice here is bad, just remember that all backs are different, and what works for one guy, might not work for you).

Degenerative joint disease, djd, or osteoarthritis does NOT automatically mean you are sentenced to a life of pain and misery. The amount of degeneration does NOT necessarily correlate to the amount of pain. You have options as far as treatment.

spinal stenosis is a narrowing of the spinal canal. It may be the cause of your problems, or it may be asymptomatic at this point, and essentially just an underlying factor. Typically, what stenosis causes is pain in the legs upon walking that is alleviated by sitting or sitting leaning forward. Symptomatic stenosis may or may not respond to conservative care, some need surgery.

What specialist have you seen, and what treatment was offered??? Seriously, you should be consulting with a chiropractor (full disclosure, I am one) or a physical therapist. Without knowing the details of your condition, I am unable to give you a prognosis, but in all seriousness it sounds like you are believing that you just have to "live with it", when that may not be the case. If you have only been offered the choice of drugs or surgery I strongly strongly strongly urge you to seek another avenue. Feel free to PM me if you like, I'm not being a commercial for chiropractors here, but I can't stand to see a fellow brewer suffer when there may be more help available.

Click to expand...

I was just about to say that you know what you're talking about. Then I read your disclosure.

I'll definitely send you a pm.

To be honest, I don't know what's in store for me. I didn't realize that I had sciatic pain for about 8 months now. I just thought it was due to my past knee injury/surgery (Torn meniscus about 6 years ago.)


Thanks,
E

Any chance you can find an assistant? That would help.

I use one of these and brew all grain(BIAB). I don't lift anything over 5 lbs.

It goes from the ground up to 8ft. Picked it up cheap on kijiji for $150




BTW EXCELLENT BACK PAIN BOOK best $11 I ever spent

Healing Back Pain Naturally: The Mind-Body Program Proven to Work

M55, a couple questions. Sorry it these are redundant.

What is your water source? bottled, tap?

how big is your boil pot? does it have a spigot?

where do you brew? kitchen stove?

how are you cooling the wort?

I like the idea of a lift cart which was brought up a couple times.


here's a thought:

Do a full boil then empty the kettle via gravity through a counter-flow chiller into a fermenter sitting on a lift cart. That's probably about 2 hours with no lifting. The only activity during this interval is hooking up the cfc (which can be rigged with quick disconnects) and putting the fermentor in place.

On bottling day the lift cart helps you put the fermenter on a table. Then you put the bottling bucked on the lift cart. Siphon the beer into the bottling bucket then lift it to fill your bottles.

looks easy on paper anyway...

kpr121 said:

Thats a brilliant use of that pump/gravity. I have a herniated L4/L5 disc (I am only 25 BTW) and when it is acting up I think about ways I can ease the pain of lifting/carrying all that beer. It has gotten a lot better since I started stretching/strengthening it frequently, but if it gets bad its great to know there are options out there.

Click to expand...

Yea, I feel you. I'm only 28. Way too many years of football/rugby/Marine Corps.

The surgeon told me I can't play rugby anymore. We'll see how long that lasts...