Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

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I am wanting to use this recipe but am only wanting to do a 2.5 gallon batch due to space. Is this a 5 gallon recipe, and how much water was used to start with? I would like to do a full boil to end up with the 2.5 gallons. Also I'd be doing an extract along with steeping the malts.

Thanks

This recipe calls for a 6 gallon wort after the boil, but after all the loss to hop absorbtion mine ended up more like 4.5 gallons.

You could easily just divide the whole thing in half and give it a try, but then again, 5 gallon buckets are easy to come by and brew in :mug:
 
Never tried PTE. Is this recipe close in taste to the original?

Yes, VERY close. I would say that the malt character is a tiny bit off, but the hop profile is dead on. The original is a tad bit sweeter IMO. Could be attributed to the fact that we do small batches in buckets stored in closets, while Russian River does huge batches in a better controlled environment.

Still a fantastic IPA when you're done.
 
Yes, VERY close. I would say that the malt character is a tiny bit off, but the hop profile is dead on. The original is a tad bit sweeter IMO. Could be attributed to the fact that we do small batches in buckets stored in closets, while Russian River does huge batches in a better controlled environment.

Still a fantastic IPA when you're done.

OK. My next IPA brew. :rockin:
 
Yes, VERY close. I would say that the malt character is a tiny bit off, but the hop profile is dead on. The original is a tad bit sweeter IMO. Could be attributed to the fact that we do small batches in buckets stored in closets, while Russian River does huge batches in a better controlled environment.

Still a fantastic IPA when you're done.

Got it brewed but lowered the dextrose amount after reading through the thread. Over shot gravity a bit but hope the ABV is tolerable. :cross:
 
Bubbler slowed to over 60 secs so checked gravity. Down from 1.084 to 1.014 so time to dry hop.

Hydro sample is quite tasty. :ban:
 
I did the 90 minute boil and nailed the OG in the recipe. So abv is a factor? As far as IBUs, we're aiming for the flavor hops so 60 minutes might be a bit too intense imho? Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of hops in my beers. But, With the hop profile of columbus, i'd rather boil it out at 90 then start it at sixty minutes.
 
jfuriosi said:
I did the 90 minute boil and nailed the OG in the recipe. So abv is a factor? As far as IBUs, we're aiming for the flavor hops so 60 minutes might be a bit too intense imho? Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of hops in my beers. But, With the hop profile of columbus, i'd rather boil it out at 90 then start it at sixty minutes.

If flavor is your goal then you really should be looking at the 20-15 minute mark through flame out additions. The 60 minute addition is for bittering only as the alpha acids are isomerized and will add more bitterness and no or minimal flavor. For that matter after 60 minutes on a HomeBrew setup you really don't get much more than 3-5 ibu's extra from that extra 30 minutes there is kinda a limit as to how many ibu's are dissolved in solution. Beersmith podcasts has a interview with John Palmer that discusses this.
 
Anyone using hop shot for bittering? (I asked in another Pliny thread, but no replies there yet)
Just need to know that it'll work the same way as advertised, ie: xmL of hop shot = xIBU's. Makes me worry shooting for that much bittering :)


I am going to give it a shot very soon with a buddy of mine. Been wanting to brew this for a long time, since I can't get Pliny here.
 
Not quite fully carbed but couldn't resist being Friday nite and all. Wow this is one tasty brew. The simcoe flavor really shines through. Thanks for the recipe.
 
I just received the AHB Pliny The Elder clone. See receipe below. I am brewing as I type. There is a shortage of Simcoe and centennial. They were able to help me out and send the Simcoe and Centinnial in Leaf form. The columbus in pellet. This is an extract kit, looks like the Vinnie recipe. I'll keep you all posted. AHB guys are very helpful and knowledgeable.

10oz Crystal 40L Malt, 1/2 LB Pale ale malt, 10oz Cara Pils malt
9lb Extra pale Extract, 1lb Corn Sugar
90 min 3.5 oz columbus
last 45 3/4 columbus
30 min 1oz simcoe
0 min 1oz centennial and 2.5 simcoe
California ale 001
Dry hops 11/4 oz simcoe, 11/4 columbus, 11/4 centennial
 
Well, we brewed on Saturday.
Used three syringes (15mL) hop shot for 90min addition.
Used a 1600mL yeast starter.
Also used FermCapS in boil.

I am happy with the whole process so far. The hop shots were very easy to deal with compared to 3.5 oz of pellets. The fermcaps prevented a boil over AND a big fermentation mess. The yeast starter had fermentation rolling hard in well under 8hrs.
 
So I think I'm going to finally get around to attempting this clone this weekend. I'm only doing 2.5 gallons as this is currently the amount that I can do a full boil with and cool in a reasonable amount of time. So based on what I've seen in the thread this is what I've come up with. I'm not set up for all-grain so I'm using DME. Am I on the right track? All I did was divide the OP recipe by two and replace the 2-row with DME according to the conversion that I think Yooper gave.

EDIT: Now I'm confused. There are two responses by Yooper to the question 'can this easily be converted to extract?' One says to use 7.2 lbs DME in place of the 2-row and one says 7 lbs of DME.

Should the second dryhop be added to the existing dryhop, or should I rack off of those hops into a new container?

3.2 lbs light DME
4oz Crystal 45 malt
4oz Carapils malt
6oz corn sugar added to boil

1.75oz Columbus hops @ 90 minutes
.375oz Columbus hops @ 45 minutes
.5oz Simcoe hops @ 30 minutes
.5oz Centennial hops @ 0 minutes
1.25oz Simcoe hops @ 0 minutes

.5oz Columbus dryhop
.5oz Simcoe dryhop
.5oz Centennial dryhop

add an additional .125 columbus, .125 simcoe, and .125 oz of cententennial to the dryhop after a week of adding the first dryhop addition

steep grains at 150 for 30 minutes; add 1/3 DME at beginning of boil and rest at flameout
us05 yeast
 
I hadn't thought about that yet, but I guess closer to the end or at flameout. I'm not sure if corn sugar can give the same color issues that extract can, so better safe than sorry in my book.
 
Brewing this one up now. I'm a big fan of the Pliny and had to do a10 gallon. The hop list put a dent in my wallet!
 
What is everyone's OG and FG and what size of starter/how many yeast packs are you using? I am trying to see what size of starter I need to make (using wyeast 1056). My software is telling me 1.072 OG and 1.018 FG with 75% attenuation. I think I need to get the FG down lower.
 
For those going to try the clone, this is the real deal (1st page), handed out from Vinnie at a conference, and can be found at Beerdujoir.com in PDF form.

They don't specify malt/sugar quantities, but rather percentages along with O.G. So one needs to adjust for their own efficiency to hit the 1.070 target.

I've made this several times, and it is pretty much spot on, except for more aromatics in mine vs. the only place near me that serves it draft. Maybe if I got some fresh at the brewery it would be a better test. I love this beer! It needs to be drunk young to appreciate the nuances.

Rumour is Vinnie has changed this recipe over time, for example, adding Amarillo and such. Don't know if that's true or not, but what is brewing without tinkering?

At any rate, this is a "hop candy" beer, and pretty much all light color IIPAs over 100 IBUs calculated get into the realm of "hop candy". For those that like maltiness, look elsewhere....

Oh, and I looked up the city water profile where Russian River Brewing is, and adjusted my water profile to match. Might make a difference, who knows.
 
What is everyone's OG and FG and what size of starter/how many yeast packs are you using? I am trying to see what size of starter I need to make (using wyeast 1056). My software is telling me 1.072 OG and 1.018 FG with 75% attenuation. I think I need to get the FG down lower.

OG 1.070
FG I forget...lol
I used a 1600ml starter, with one vial of yeast, 24hrs after starting the starter. The batch was going nuts by 12hrs. No need for two packets if you make a good starter.
 
I have seen two responses to the " when toads corn sugar" question. In one of the recipes from vinnie he states to "add corn sugar and bring to boil." I have also seen instructions to add corn sugar the last 10 minutes of boil. Any thoughts? 2nd question is for the hop additions at flame out. Do those stay in just while it is cooling down or do they transfer to fermenter? Brewin this weekend. Thanks!
 
ibpick said:
I have seen two responses to the " when toads corn sugar" question. In one of the recipes from vinnie he states to "add corn sugar and bring to boil." I have also seen instructions to add corn sugar the last 10 minutes of boil. Any thoughts? 2nd question is for the hop additions at flame out. Do those stay in just while it is cooling down or do they transfer to fermenter? Brewin this weekend. Thanks!

That's "when to add" not toads.
 
Hah, toads....

Sugar.
I added for the full boil. I don't think it will effect anything if you add it later. There is some adjustment for hop utilization in regard to gravity, but I doubt anyone could tell on a small scale brew.

Flame out hops.
Add at the very end of boil, ie: when you are terminating the heat source. These hops do NOT go into the fermenter. Just keep them in while you whirlpool or chill etc.
 
To add to the above, I add my corn sugar a little bit after I throw a Whirlfloc in the boil and right before I throw the chiller into the boil to sanitize it. I have my doubts there is any difference. The only reason I've ever read to not just throw it in directly at the beginning is due to the possibility of caramelizing the sugar which I personally think is highly unlikely, but I just did it that way because why not.

To my tastes (and I regularly drink Pliny at local watering holes), this beer tastes extremely similar to the commercial beer when properly fermented and with the right yeast and hop character. I won't say its indistinguishable since I didn't do a side-by-side, however.

I'm not sure why the OP says to use 12 lbs. of 2 row and .5 of the Carapils/C40. The amount should be 13.25 2 row and .6 of the Carapils/C40 because it is a 6 gallon batch designed to yield 5 gallons of finished beer. If you brew less than a 6 gallon batch, you will end up with something like 4 gallons and change due to the loss of wort/beer to hop trub in both the boil and the dry hop. I personally bumped the 2 row to 14 pounds and I still undershot the gravity by ~2-4 points, but that's just because I always get lower 70s efficiency.
 
Hah, toads....

Sugar.
I added for the full boil. I don't think it will effect anything if you add it later. There is some adjustment for hop utilization in regard to gravity, but I doubt anyone could tell on a small scale brew.

Flame out hops.
Add at the very end of boil, ie: when you are terminating the heat source. These hops do NOT go into the fermenter. Just keep them in while you whirlpool or chill etc.

Why not?
 
I'm going to brew this tomorrow and need to know if I'm prepared. Does this look right?

- Add dextrose at last 15 minutes of boil along with moss and chiller
- Use actual AA from http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny the elder clone pdf.pdf on 90, 45 and 30 minute additions and weighed amounts in the OP on all of the rest.
- 0.5L followed by 1.8L starter of WLP001
- 5.5 gallons in the keggle after the 90 minute boil assuming 73% efficiency and 77% attenuation (brewers friend). Try to strain the hops to 5.25 in the fermenter.
- Transfer 5 days after terminal gravity
- Batch sparge mash starting at 152 (assuming) 1 degree loss.
- first dry hops added in a fine bag to the keg.
- second dry hops added in a tea ball.
 

I assume you are asking why not put the flame out hops in the fermenter....

My answer would be, it'll make it funky. LOL
Hops used in the boil kettle, no matter at what stage, are always filtered out prior to fermentation. If not, I would guess that you would get a very grassy tasting beer. Same reason most folks don't dry hop for longer than 14days.
Then again, I'm no expert! I just do what is the norm, and drink too much beer ;)

Your recipe looks good, but a little confusing being out of order in your post.

Try to end up with 6gal in the primary fermenter. The trub loss in primary, and the dry hops soaking up beer in secondary will result in a 5gal total yield of drinkable brew. Just sparge a bit more to get what you need, pre-boil.

Also, don't let the AA content, and resulting IBU's scare you. I used hop shots for bittering. Calculated to 150IBU. Its not bitter. Its just perfect to balance out all that grain, resulting in a great IPA.

Good luck! :D
Kurt
 

Because flameout hops are still a hot-side technique. Putting hops into the fermenter is dry-hopping, which is not advisable due to the fact that the volatile aromatics will just blow off when the yeast off-gas CO2.

Flameout hops and Dry Hops are not the same thing and they don't DO the same thing in the beer, even if they are both considered "aroma" additions.

I'm going to brew this tomorrow and need to know if I'm prepared. Does this look right?

- Add dextrose at last 15 minutes of boil along with moss and chiller
- Use actual AA from http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny the elder clone pdf.pdf on 90, 45 and 30 minute additions and weighed amounts in the OP on all of the rest.
- 0.5L followed by 1.8L starter of WLP001
- 5.5 gallons in the keggle after the 90 minute boil assuming 73% efficiency and 77% attenuation (brewers friend). Try to strain the hops to 5.25 in the fermenter.
- Transfer 5 days after terminal gravity
- Batch sparge mash starting at 152 (assuming) 1 degree loss.
- first dry hops added in a fine bag to the keg.
- second dry hops added in a tea ball.
You're going to hit that IBU solubility barrier here, so I wouldn't be particularly worried about IBU adjustment. In Brewing Classic Styles, Jamil Zainasheff has a very similar recipe derived from the Pliny recipe and he specifically recommends not substituting any hops for AA%s. He doesn't explain exactly why but I think it is because 3.5 oz. of Columbus at practically any AA% is going to contribute calculated IBUs in the 200s, which is beyond the level bitterness can really get into the beer.

You want to scale this to a 6 gallon recipe, which is why the base malt should be 13.25 lbs and the Crystal and Carapils should be .6 lbs. You will lose a large amount of beer to absorption from the hops and dry hops.
 
I assume you are asking why not put the flame out hops in the fermenter....

My answer would be, it'll make it funky. LOL
Hops used in the boil kettle, no matter at what stage, are always filtered out prior to fermentation. If not, I would guess that you would get a very grassy tasting beer. Same reason most folks don't dry hop for longer than 14days.
Then again, I'm no expert! I just do what is the norm, and drink too much beer ;)

Your recipe looks good, but a little confusing being out of order in your post.

Try to end up with 6gal in the primary fermenter. The trub loss in primary, and the dry hops soaking up beer in secondary will result in a 5gal total yield of drinkable brew. Just sparge a bit more to get what you need, pre-boil.

Also, don't let the AA content, and resulting IBU's scare you. I used hop shots for bittering. Calculated to 150IBU. Its not bitter. Its just perfect to balance out all that grain, resulting in a great IPA.

Good luck! :D
Kurt

Because flameout hops are still a hot-side technique. Putting hops into the fermenter is dry-hopping, which is not advisable due to the fact that the volatile aromatics will just blow off when the yeast off-gas CO2.

Flameout hops and Dry Hops are not the same thing and they don't DO the same thing in the beer, even if they are both considered "aroma" additions.


You're going to hit that IBU solubility barrier here, so I wouldn't be particularly worried about IBU adjustment. In Brewing Classic Styles, Jamil Zainasheff has a very similar recipe derived from the Pliny recipe and he specifically recommends not substituting any hops for AA%s. He doesn't explain exactly why but I think it is because 3.5 oz. of Columbus at practically any AA% is going to contribute calculated IBUs in the 200s, which is beyond the level bitterness can really get into the beer.

You want to scale this to a 6 gallon recipe, which is why the base malt should be 13.25 lbs and the Crystal and Carapils should be .6 lbs. You will lose a large amount of beer to absorption from the hops and dry hops.

Well It looks like I'm headed for disaster because I dumped about 75% of the hops in the fermenter. :cross:

Next time I think I will siphon because I got plugged while trying to filter the junk and had to scrape the bottom and let it all go. I'm not too worried about that though because it will only be there for about 10 to 14 days. My real concern is getting only 1.063 after I got 1.050 preboil. It doesn't seem to add up.:confused: I got 7.1 gal down to about 5.7 gal and my calculations told me I should be higher in the end.
 
Well It looks like I'm headed for disaster because I dumped about 75% of the hops in the fermenter. :cross:

Next time I think I will siphon because I got plugged while trying to filter the junk and had to scrape the bottom and let it all go. I'm not too worried about that though because it will only be there for about 10 to 14 days. My real concern is getting only 1.063 after I got 1.050 preboil. It doesn't seem to add up.:confused: I got 7.1 gal down to about 5.7 gal and my calculations told me I should be higher in the end.

Yeah, just roll with it. Maybe rack to secondary as early as possible.
 
Yeah, just roll with it. Maybe rack to secondary as early as possible.

My personal opinion (and this is taste-subjective) is that for IPAs dropping all the trub into the fermenter doens't really mean anything so long as you can chill/let it all settle out. It mostly affects (to me, again) the appearance and not the taste since it stays hazy for a bit longer when you have a ton of trub in the fermenter flying around during the ferment.

If it makes people feel better, I drink real Pliny with some regularity at a local watering hole that has it on draft 70% of the time. It is not always a clear beer. It sometimes looks full on filtered (they centrifuge, I believe, but I know they treat bottles and draft differently, so I can't for certain specify), but just as often it looks slightly hazy. Don't sweat it. If you give the beer to someone that can appreciate its flavor and aroma they won't care about the clarity at all.

(Full disclosure, I made this with whole hops, but a lot of the broken down bits made it through the bazooka tube)
 
I crashed mine yesterday with gelatin. Tasted like a grapefruit bomb toward the end of fermentation. Now it's a little less acidic bitter and it has a honey like taste. Still really bitter though.
 
How critical is the second dry hop? I'm in a 5 gallon secondary and the first round hasn't even soaked up yet' and I doubt another round would even get wet.

Also - I put the hops in the fermenter loose because I couldn't squeeze the 3oz hop bag through the hole. There's got to be a better way to dry hop
My columbus was pellets, so there's a ton of debris in the beer now. Any advice on filtering this when I keg? I just have an auto siphon.

Tasted great - real grapefruity. My OG was 1.070 and I'm at 1.012 right now.

P1010839-001.jpg
 
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