Real Cherries in Secondary?

I'm just spit-balling here but If I were to successfully ferment a wheat wort, racked to a secondary and added real cherries, would I end up with a flavor similar to Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat?? Also, what are the chances of nasty little bacteria hanging out in the cherries, or if they were frozen, would that eliminate the bacteria before hand? Thanks!!

Read up on using fruit in beer. Some puree the fruit and heat it to sanitize, so just add frozen fruit or juice concentrate. I like to use the oregon cans of fruit.

And yes, you would probably end up with something similar.

When I made a cherry wheat I added some extract before bottling. This was by recommendation of LHBS.

It gave a light flavor. Not over powering. 1 bottle for 5 gallon batch. It was fromLHBS. Not the cooking extract.

No problems with your plan at all... Adding to 2ndary is preferred.

I usually wash, freeze, thaw, pit, then add straight to 2ndary. Others heat the cherries to 170F to pasteurize. Both methods should be fine.

I wouldn't suggest using the extract sold at brew stores. This stuff is crap. It's nice because it's cheap, but 90% of them don't taste like the real deal. The only two I've found that actually work are raspberry and peach. The problem with most of them is they either smell like the fruit or taste like the fruit, not both.

Cherry is probably one of the worst out of the bunch. It tastes like cough syrup in my opinion.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Cherry is probably one of the worst out of the bunch. It tastes like cough syrup in my opinion.

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I like Sam Adams Cherry Wheat, but I think the criticism that it tastes like cough syrup is entirely justified.

I still long to make a Cherry Stout of some kind.

I recently added 3 lbs of cherries to a batch at secondary. They added a real neat color but nearly no flavor or aroma. Maybe cooking them a bit before hand would have helped. I tried the same recipe with cherry extract. I agree with the previous post. Cherry extract added a ton of flavor but it was the flavor of cherry cough syrup. If I tried again, I would use the cans of cherry puree.

Adding to the secondary is preferred, but you won't get much flavor or aroma from them unless you let it set for at least a couple weeks, the longer the more flavor you will pick up.

I really prefer using the Oregon Fruit products you can get from most homebrew stores. The are ready to use, 100% real fruit, and you just pour into the secondary straight from the can. Heating the fruit will cause pectic haze in the beer, and can volatize a lot of the aroma compounds before it ever makes it into the beer. The extract can give a very medicinal character to the beer, like cough syrup as mentioned before, so I wouldn't suggest that.

Oregon Fruit Puree

Originally Posted by Suthrncomfrt1884 View Post
Cherry is probably one of the worst out of the bunch. It tastes like cough syrup in my opinion.

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Then it will taste EXACTLY like Sam Cherry Wheat.

I know oregon puree, Makes a cherry flavor.

2 allmost 3 months now i made a rasberry blonde. Put 1/2 can of ras puree in secondary.

First 3 weeks it was REALLY tart. Thought about adding lactose, Glad i didnt.

After 5 weeks it mellowed down really well...Now at 2 1/2 months old You get a slight hint of rasberry in the taste and smell. To me, It is perfect with just that hint...

I have tried the sam adams cherry wheat, Its not to bad. I dont think i could get drunk off of it...but one every so often is allright.

What i am getting at here is, If you use the puree... Make sure you have the time to let is sit for a month.

I hope this helps ya out a bit

Yes and thank you. I'll go with the Oregon puree when the time comes. Now what's a decent grain recipe for creating my wheat base for this? Thanks!

Pschof said:

Then it will taste EXACTLY like Sam Cherry Wheat.

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Handle said:

I like Sam Adams Cherry Wheat, but I think the criticism that it tastes like cough syrup is entirely justified.

I still long to make a Cherry Stout of some kind.

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I wasn't really talking about Sam Adam's when I said it taste like cough syrup. I was talking about the extract you can buy from your LHBS. I've never actually had SA Cherry Wheat.

As for a good recipe... I always like the old trusty 50/50 wheat and pils or 2-row. Make sure you use rice hauls in your mash if you intend on using that much wheat though.

Check out my recipe for a Belgian Wit and build off that base. It's one of my favorite homebrews and a family favorite also. I can't keep a keg of that stuff on tap for more than a few weeks.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

I wasn't really talking about Sam Adam's when I said it taste like cough syrup. I was talking about the extract you can buy from your LHBS.

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I know. I was just saying that Cherry Wheat tastes like cough syrup, so if you are looking to replicate it, maybe the extract is the way to go.

I've always thought Cherry Wheat was Sam Adams worst beer, but I know people love it. . .

I love it. I like the hint of cherry on the tip of your tongue when the carbonation starts hittin' ya. I just enjoy it..

Your recipe calls for sparging at 168.. How do you sparge in a boiling bot with steeped grain? From Palmer's book it looks like this is done with a larger set up since it talks about gallons and gallons of water lol

I wanted to mash the grain in the pot using a steeping bag, is that fine?

scottmd06 said:

Your recipe calls for sparging at 168.. How do you sparge in a boiling bot with steeped grain? From Palmer's book it looks like this is done with a larger set up since it talks about gallons and gallons of water lol

I wanted to mash the grain in the pot using a steeping bag, is that fine?

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Mashing and steeping are two completely different processes. If you're going to mash and sparge, you'll need an all grain or partial mash setup. Steeping is just allowing your grains to soak in the brewpot and removing them before the boil.

Well, then I would prefer an all grain wheat recipe for steeping =)

scottmd06 said:

Well, then I would prefer an all grain wheat recipe for steeping =)

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No such thing. You either have the setup to do all-grain, or you steep.

What I meant is a steeping recipe... I'm new to this. Doing bad with the terminology at times..

With most wheat beers, there's really no need for steeping grains. Just go out and pick up 5-6lbs of wheat extract. It should be about a 60/40 mix of pale malt/wheat depending on what brand you buy.

so are you just suggesting the wheat DME at my LHBS? i started a batch the other day and i just had a LB of crushed wheat grain in a bag in 150F water for 25. was that mashing, sparging or steeping?

I don't think I've seen too many wheat dry malt extracts. I see liquid all the time though. And yes, I would have just used wheat extract instead of actual wheat.

No harm though. Having it in a bag at 150 is concidered steeping. The problem is, wheat doesn't have enough enzymes to convert to sugar on it's own. You may have gotten a little bit of conversion from it, and I'm sure you'll get a little flavor and cloudiness from it, but unless you have 2-row or some other type of base malt, the wheat won't fully convert.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

I don't think I've seen too many wheat dry malt extracts.

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Wheat DME is pretty common--most of the major producers (e.g. Breiss, Munton's) offer a wheat DME.

Most wheat malts have plenty of diastatic power, but the wheat kernel doesn't retain the husk when it's threshed, so on its own it's a PITA to lauter without some rice hulls. Note wheat malt's extract potential is typically in the mid-80s, versus high-70s for barley malts, reflecting the weight of the barley husks.

Real fruit is a PITA and the beer ends up waaaaay too sweet IMO.

My wheat w/ 2oz rasp extract >>>>>>>>>>>> my wheat with fresh cherries.

Oddly I have sampled a cherry beer or 2 and they all tasted like Robitussin with bubbles, some have a maraschino cherry aftertaste and some had a real cherry after taste. Needless to say I am done w/ cherries and beer; I will just make cherry bounce...

I do however wish you the best of luck!

944play said:

Most wheat malts have plenty of diastatic power, but the wheat kernel doesn't retain the husk when it's threshed, so on its own it's a PITA to lauter without some rice hulls. Note wheat malt's extract potential is typically in the mid-80s, versus high-70s for barley malts, reflecting the weight of the barley husks.

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Wow. I was always taught that wheat needed to be mashed. I guess I was wrong. I even went back through palmer and he says the same thing.

Thanks for the info. Learn something new everyday.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Wow. I was always taught that wheat needed to be mashed. I guess I was wrong. I even went back through palmer and he says the same thing.

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It does need to be mashed--having diastatic power isn't the same thing as being a specialty grain. Heck, 6-row has to be mashed. Wheat malt can convert itself during the mash. Unmalted wheat can't.

Wheat malt vs. unmalted wheat is a totally different thing, as Palmer notes:

"Flaked Wheat -- Unmalted wheat is a common ingredient in wheat beers, including: American Wheat, Bavarian Weisse, and is essential to Belgian Lambic and Wit. It adds starch haze and high levels of protein. Flaked wheat adds more wheat flavor "sharpness" than malted wheat. Use 0.5-2 lb. per 5 gal batch. Must be mashed with base malt."

BUT:

"Wheat Malt (3 L) --- Wheat has been used for brewing beer nearly as long as barley and has equal diastatic power. Malted wheat is used for 5-70% of the mash depending on the style. Wheat has no outer husk and therefore has fewer tannins than barley. It is generally smaller than barley and contributes more protein to the beer, aiding in head retention. But it is much stickier than barley due to the higher protein content and may cause lautering problems if not given a "Protein Rest" during the mash."

So with this last recipe I did where I steeped 1lb of milled wheat grain alone for 25 mins at 150F and then added my 4lbs of DME did I get fermentables from that wheat? Or did I just get haziness? And what would you recommend I do next time if I had done anything wrong this time?

Since I am still waiting for a reply I took a gravity reading for myself. The fermentation activity has slowed and I get a visual indicator from the airlock about once per minute. Judging by the gravity here after 6 days in the fermenter Im showing a 1.012 from a 1.043 OG. From that data I can assume that Ive resulted in .08% of alcohol from each of the 5lbs of fermentable sugars I started with in my wort. So Im confused as to why those of you may think that the 1lb of Wheat I steeped alone did not convert correctly.