3 Batch Sparges - increased efficiency

I have been batch sparging for some time now using 2 equal sparge amounts after first runnings. I consistently get 72-73% eff.

I brewed BM's sterling gold a couple days ago, which has a small grain bill. I used 1.2 qt/lb mash ratio. First runnings was only 1 gallon (No Mash out). I then split the remaining 5.7 gallons into 3 equal 1.9 gal sparges (getting the grain bed up to 168º).

Got 82% efficiency.

This will be my Go-To method especially on smaller beers. I may even reduce to 1.1 qt/lb mash ratio. I always use 2-3 oz. of rice hulls for quicker sparge flow.

Are there any down sides to this method???

The biggest downside is the extra time and effort. Once you are doing three or more batch sparges, the benefits of batch sparging over fly sparging start to become very small.

I wonder whether moving from 2 to 3 batch sparges really helped you get such a big jump in efficiency. I would look at your process more carefully, and ensure that you are stirring your grains adequately while mashing, and that you are getting your temps up quickly with that first sparge water addition. It could very well be that by doing these two things well, you will get your efficiency into the 80's with just two sparge additions.

While you are experimenting, you might try giving fly sparging a try. Sometimes it just works better on some people's systems, and you might find it easier than 3 batch sparges.

I tried fly sparging once. I made a cpvc manifold with drilled holes. Ended up with worse eff. due to channeling. Once the minfold is over my rectangular Mash Tun, how do you stir up the top of the grain bed to prevent channeling?

I do agree getting the temp up and vigilent stirring help eff. in batch sparging. As far as time, my tunaround is about 10 min per sparge. 1 min. to add water and stir - rest 7 min - 2 min stir and run-off.

I read that you should spend about 1 hour fly sparging.

I usually do 2 batch sparges for the brew at hand, then do a third smaller sparge just to keep for other uses like starters and extra volume. The 3rd sparge usually comes out at 1.015-1.022sg, then I increase it by the amount of boil time.
So there are more sugars in the mash and it would make sense (to me ) that with a third sparge can increase efficiency.

I typically do 3 sparges when doing a 10gal batch because my 10gal igloo cooler can only hold so much. And I notice that I get a better efficiency when doing 3 sparges than the two sparges I typically do for 5 gallon batches.

ol' rummie said:

I usually do 2 batch sparges for the brew at hand, then do a third smaller sparge just to keep for other uses like starters and extra volume. The 3rd sparge usually comes out at 1.015-1.022sg, then I increase it by the amount of boil time.

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I also do this, but my 3rd sparge runnings are usually around 1.010 - 1.015. Usually I use this light wort to serve as a small base for ciders or meads. Just a little something to keep the yeast happy. If I'm doing a larger brew I'll save it for starters.

gonzo brewer said:

Once the minfold is over my rectangular Mash Tun, how do you stir up the top of the grain bed to prevent channeling?

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I think you combined paragraphs of what FlyGuy was saying. He was saying to make sure to stir well when you add your batch sparge water. If you try fly sparging, you don't want to stir once the sparge has begun.

I use 1.25qt/lb mash thickness and do 2 sparges (3 runnings total) and get 90% so the only downside for me is that I'd oversparge if I made it 4 runnings. As your grainbill gets small, you can oversparge. As the grainbill gets large, 3 distinct sparge infusions might not get the mash into a stirrable consistency anymore. It's highly debatable how thick is still stirrable but I'm going to guess somewhere in the .3qts/lb area is too thick to provide benefit.

If you got 82% with three sparges I believe you could improve your crush and get 82% with two sparges.

I get 82% with two sparges consistently. My mill gap is 0.041 (still coarse compared to some others, but that's because I don't want super high efficiency, I'd rather use an extra half pound of grain than fuss over watching the gravity of my final runnings for potential over-extraction). Both times I infuse, stir continuously for 2 minutes, rest for 8 minutes, vorlauf for 1 minute, and runoff at 1/3 of max speed (for improved wort clarity).

Saccharomyces said:

If you got 82% with three sparges I believe you could improve your crush and get 82% with two sparges.

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I use a Corona mill and my crush is pretty fine, a good % of flour.

Saccharomyces said:

I get 82% with two sparges consistently. My mill gap is 0.041 (still coarse compared to some others, but that's because I don't want super high efficiency, I'd rather use an extra half pound of grain than fuss over watching the gravity of my final runnings for potential over-extraction). Both times I infuse, stir continuously for 2 minutes, rest for 8 minutes, vorlauf for 1 minute, and runoff at 1/3 of max speed (for improved wort clarity).

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I thought the common recommendation was to "let er rip" after vorlauf. Don't you stir once more right before vorlauf? The sugars are in liquid suspension right after a good stir, right?. Using rice hulls helps the clarity of wort, and the speed of runoff.

I know a lot of batch spargers let the sparge sit for a few minutes after stirring it in but I would bet that in most cases it provides no benefit. MAYBE it would if your crush is horribly coarse, but the way diffusion works, the sugar WANTS to get into the water. IOW, after a good stir, the water becomes wort (and at the highest gravity it will ever be) almost immediately. I add the sparge water, stir for 2 minutes, vorlauf and drain just about as fast as I feel like with no intentional waiting unless I'm in the middle of drinking.

gonzo brewer said:

I thought the common recommendation was to "let er rip" after vorlauf. Don't you stir once more right before vorlauf? The sugars are in liquid suspension right after a good stir, right?. Using rice hulls helps the clarity of wort, and the speed of runoff.

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I don't use rice hulls, if I runoff at full speed my wort isn't clear. I'm building a new tun right now with a copper manifold, I suspect the situation will be better with the new equipment since the copper slots will hold up better than CPVC. If not I guess I could use the rice hulls.

I measured diffusion in my grainbed with a refractometer. Stir, sample. Stir two minutes, sample again. Wait five minutes, sample again. I saw N* Plato, N+2* Plato, and N+3* in the three consecutive readings. My crush isn't pulverizing the grain, I'm crushing at around .041. If I set my mill to .035 I'm sure the wait wouldn't be necessary, but I'm not in a hurry.

Corona mills are notoriously uneven in their crush, presence of flour doesn't mean you have a good enough crush on all the grains to get quick diffusion. Letting it sit for a few minutes and stirring again is probably worth a try to see if it helps in your situation. Worst case you spent five more minutes

I need to get a freakin refractometer.

Bobby_M said:

I need to get a freakin refractometer.

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It is a great way to impress the neighbors. Well, that and a kegerator full of kegs.

They are ok Bobby, I use mine, but for FG I still use a hydrometer. Another good use is to use to measure starters.

BeerSmith has a refractometer tool and it has three setting, Unfermented Wort, Fermenting Wort and Finsihed wort, wording may be off, but I have found that the Finished wort, using the refractometer is inaccurate.

Sherpa FE said:

BeerSmith has a refractometer tool and it has three setting, Unfermented Wort, Fermenting Wort and Finsihed wort, wording may be off, but I have found that the Finished wort, using the refractometer is inaccurate.

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The normal adjustment factor for pre-ferment is 1.04. With post-ferment, it's completely unknown because the factor depends on the amount of dextrins, and the refractometer only measures concentration of simple sugars. You can figure out what your actual attenuation is quite accurately, but not your apparent attenuation.

Bobby_M said:

I need to get a freakin refractometer.

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You will love it bobby as you can take as many readings as you like and loose no wort doing it. I sure love mine.

Saccharomyces said:

Corona mills are notoriously uneven in their crush, presence of flour doesn't mean you have a good enough crush on all the grains to get quick diffusion. Letting it sit for a few minutes and stirring again is probably worth a try to see if it helps in your situation. Worst case you spent five more minutes

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I see your point.
I realize my corona mill is not ideal. I gradually tightened the setting closer and my eff slowly went up. Other technique improvements probably helped also. Visually there are no uncrushed grains at this point so I think I'm good.

My next purchase = grain mill, 3 more cornies, or forward sealing taps.... can't decide

Thank you all for your help on my original question.
Take away is it probably does't hurt to do 3 batch sparges (esp. smaller grain bills), but 2 batch sparges should be sufficient if techniques are honed in.

gonzo brewer said:

This will be my Go-To method especially on smaller beers. I may even reduce to 1.1 qt/lb mash ratio. I always use 2-3 oz. of rice hulls for quicker sparge flow.

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Don’t make the mash any thicker just to get more run-offs. If it is to thick, it will actually hurt your extraction efficiency b/c the enzymes are not able to work well enough to get it converted during the mashing time. I would even suggest that you try thinner than 1.25 instead.

Like the others already said, you should not have to go to 3 sparges to get 85%+ efficiency on regular strength beers. I think you have a low extraction efficiency (mash is not working as well as it should) which keeps your overall efficiency in the 70s.

Kai

OK, Thanx Kai. I've always used 1.2 qt/lb mash ratio. I'll mash the next brew at 1.3 leaving everything else the same and see what happens.