Bock style beers...how did the German Monks do it?

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beernewb71

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It seems like the German bock styles have some intricate steps. I'm curious how the German monks use to create this beer? Is there any literature out there that shows how they did it?
 
You mean you haven't been praying over your beer?

They had generations to perfect it through trial and error. That, and lots of prayer.

They certainly scheduled their brewing to take full advantage of seasonal temperatures as well.
 
Dang! Ya beat me to it jeburdo. they have a history of Germen brewing on that site as well that'll give more insights. A good read indeed!
 
unionrdr said:
Dang! Ya beat me to it jeburdo. they have a history of Germen brewing on that site as well that'll give more insights. A good read indeed!
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder... But yes, I love this site. It's my first go to any time I have a question about any German beer.
 
No harm no foul. They talk about German hops too. Another good read. Lots of insightful info on that site. Can't understand why it's still beta after a couple years,though???
 
I know that, when I drink a nice doppelbock, I feel just a bit more holy. :mug:
 
jeburgdo said:
Here's an article that discusses how the doppelbock style came about. It doesn't get to how they came to use things such as decoctions, but has some interesting facts nonetheless:

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Doppelbock.html
Click to expand...

Is it only my computer or does the text get double printed and unreadable ab out 3/4 of the way thru the link? Either way it is very interesting, at least what I could read. :tank:
 
Thanks for all the replies, was surprised to see so many.

Maybe I'm naive but I just can't picture Monks making munich malts, doing a triple decoction (did they even have thermometers?) and then ordering lager yeast online.

I'm looking for the simplest and purest form of the style. I wonder if the original bock beers had any sourness to them, or were they using specific yeast strains and sterilization techniques back then as well? Like I said maybe I'm naive and they were methodical and elite brewmeisters.

Either way I'm looking to get into brewing, and I want to approach it in a more traditional way. I assume just like everything else, we have replaced traditional methods of brewing beer with methods that are more suitable for mass production and commercialization. I'm looking for these traditional methods as I'd like to make my own malts and use my own local wild yeasts. I may end up with something totally different then what I'm looking for and that's OK.

Any resources would be helpful and most appreciated.
 
Some of the ingredients and equipment are of higher quality, but the methods really are not all that different from the monks of even 1000 years ago. How traditional do you want to be as well? Some research into the Reinheitsgebot of 1516, which restricted the ingredients of beer to water, barley, and hops may help you answer that question. Before that, traditionally beers would have this thing called gruit, which was a blend of herbs and spices, sometimes with some pretty nasty stuff in it, but not always. Note also, that the original Reinheitsgebot did not include yeast. This is because it wasn't known (until Louis Pasteur if I remember correctly) the role that yeast played. There was wild, spontaneous fermentation, and then reusing of the same equipment and fermentation vessels led to specific yeasts characterizing different areas and monasteries all without the knowledge of yeast's importance. The monks believed it was the spirit of the monastery or some such thing.

I don't know much about malting your own grain, but it certainly is possible, and brewers have been doing it for thousands of years. If you decide you don't want to go quite that traditional, note that Samuel Adams was not a brewer, but was actually a maltster, malting the grains for brewers. I guess my main point would be that the methods really have not changed all that much over beer's thousands of years of existence, but there has been quite a bit of change in ingredients and quality of ingredients and equipment.

I'm not trying to discourage you, so if you want to go ahead an malt your own grain, and ferment with wild yeast, more power to you! I'm sure there is info around here on malting your own grain, if you do a search, and for wild fermentation, be sure to check out this section: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ If you end up making this beer, let us know how it turns out.
 
Don't worry you're not discouraging me! It makes me wonder though if they were wild fermenting their beer, what the original bock beers tasted like. The story of the Monks sending the Pope some doppelbock, to see if it was OK to drink but ended up being vile by the time it reached the Pope fascinates me.

From what I'm learning, all these different malts are just trademarked right? I mean they are all the same thing, barley, though some are different varieties of barley and some are kilned longer or shorter.
 
jeburgdo said:
Some of the ingredients and equipment are of higher quality, but the methods really are not all that different from the monks of even 1000 years ago. How traditional do you want to be as well? Some research into the Reinheitsgebot of 1516, which restricted the ingredients of beer to water, barley, and hops may help you answer that question. Before that, traditionally beers would have this thing called gruit, which was a blend of herbs and spices, sometimes with some pretty nasty stuff in it, but not always. Note also, that the original Reinheitsgebot did not include yeast. This is because it wasn't known (until Louis Pasteur if I remember correctly) the role that yeast played. There was wild, spontaneous fermentation, and then reusing of the same equipment and fermentation vessels led to specific yeasts characterizing different areas and monasteries all without the knowledge of yeast's importance. The monks believed it was the spirit of the monastery or some such thing.

I don't know much about malting your own grain, but it certainly is possible, and brewers have been doing it for thousands of years. If you decide you don't want to go quite that traditional, note that Samuel Adams was not a brewer, but was actually a maltster, malting the grains for brewers. I guess my main point would be that the methods really have not changed all that much over beer's thousands of years of existence, but there has been quite a bit of change in ingredients and quality of ingredients and equipment.

I'm not trying to discourage you, so if you want to go ahead an malt your own grain, and ferment with wild yeast, more power to you! I'm sure there is info around here on malting your own grain, if you do a search, and for wild fermentation, be sure to check out this section: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ If you end up making this beer, let us know how it turns out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info,I plan on making a parcel mash next week.
 
beernewb71 said:
. . . . . . . I'm looking for these traditional methods as I'd like to make my own malts and use my own local wild yeasts. I may end up with something totally different then what I'm looking for and that's OK.

Any resources would be helpful and most appreciated.
Click to expand...

I am into the same sort of self reliant brewing, here are my journeys so far, the juniper yeast below would be good for belgian beers (Dubbels, tripels, quads, strongs and the like) mine has no funk to it.

Malting: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/happiness-home-malting-107409/

Yeast: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/can-i-culture-yeast-juniper-berries-169156/

If you want some funk/sour, here's another thread, although good useable sour yeast/bacterium seems harder to find: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/13-gallons-unintentionally-wild-brown-can-i-use-133003/

Brew on my friend:mug:
 
The breweries of that time had the yeast growing on the rafters & whatnot from some stories I read. They also had a stick that went from batch to batch,& the yeast clung to it. But they didn't know that necessarilly. Now if you want to confuse that,& get some insights into the diffwerences between ale & beer in 1310,read this; http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pwp/tofi/medieval_english_ale.html
 

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