Consistently low efficiency - what's my problem?

Hey all -

Moved to all grain recently, and after two batches I'm getting really low efficiency (around 60% or less).

Setup:
10 gallon cooler system, false bottom for the mash tun, fly sparge w/ a rotating sparge arm.

Other notes:
I've used a PH balancer with both batches. My first batch, I was a few degrees off on my saccharification rest, but this most recent one I hit perfectly.

Grain is purchased pre-milled from Austin Homebrew Supply.

So - what am I doing wrong? I'm on track for another batch next weekend, and would like this one to be better. Thanks for the help!

What's your batch size?

How many pounds of grain?

What's the mash water to grain ratio?

How many quarts of water for the sparge?

You could try mashing with 1.25 qts. per lb. of grain and sparging with 2 qts. per lb. of grain. This gives me 80% eff. every time

Better luck next time. Enjoy!

Shoot for about 7 gallons in the pot before boil. Most recent recipe had 17lbs of grain, one before that had 12.5.

Most recent batch had 22.25 quarts for the mash. Sparged till I hit my boil volume (made sure I wasn't going under 1.010).

One before that used 16.62 quarts of water for the match. Again sparged till I hit my boil volume.

99% of the time, poor crush is the culprit behind low efficiency.

You're mash was pretty thin. Around 1.3 quarts per pound and I have the same set up as you. I shoot for around 1-1.1 quarts per pound. Thicker mash allows for better enzyme action. Also, unless you are hitting you're mash temp right on with a thinner mash, you may not be getting good enzyme action.

I dunno....I usually use 1.65qt./lb. and average 85% . My efficiency actually went up a few points from a thinner mash.

brewmax25 said:

You're mash was pretty thin. Around 1.3 quarts per pound and I have the same set up as you. I shoot for around 1-1.1 quarts per pound. Thicker mash allows for better enzyme action. Also, unless you are hitting you're mash temp right on with a thinner mash, you may not be getting good enzyme action.

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I generally go by the water guidelines given by beersmith. Should I not be following those? Or am I missing a setting somewhere to adjust this?

musikguru6 said:

I generally go by the water guidelines given by beersmith. Should I not be following those? Or am I missing a setting somewhere to adjust this?

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Beersmith is a tool to help you brew the way you want to brew. It is NOT instructions on how to brew. You get to decide that for yourself.

Denny said:

Beersmith is a tool to help you brew the way you want to brew. It is NOT instructions on how to brew. You get to decide that for yourself.

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So, do I need to adjust the amount of water that I'm using in my mash - ignore beersmith and calculate my own, or is it more likely to be an issue with the crush?

I agree with Denny. Beersmith is only a tool. Your supplier has an excellent reputation and is probably providing a good crush. So many Homebrewers complaining about poor efficiency are using Beersmith before they develop a technique. (I'm NOT trying to badmouth Beersmith. It is a good tool.) I would work on your mashing and sparging practices to achieve your goals and then incorporate Beersmith.

Denny said:

Beersmith is a tool to help you brew the way you want to brew. It is NOT instructions on how to brew. You get to decide that for yourself.

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I have done 2 mashes and my efficiency has also be low. I also followed Beersmith to a T with the amount of water etc. I have become frustrated with Beersmith and its mash settings. They don't really match my setup.

I a using about 12 lbs of grain in a 5 gallon tun. I was using a bag but I have since made valve and braid which I think will improve my efficiency as more grain is getting wet. I am also going to condition my grain before I run it through my Corona mill.

During my second attempt I did not stir the sparge and sparged until I met my volume and did not take Gravity readings for first runnings and sparge. I now know to do that. I also always keep to LME or DME on hand in order to increase fermentables until I improve my efficiency.

How long does the sparge take?

I have found that with larger grain bills, sparging too quickly causes a reduction in efficiency.

I also found that when I started doing a mash out at the end of the mash, my efficiency increased by 10%. I initially thought this was because the sparge temperature was in the high 160's rather than the low 150's. I now think it is because I stir the mash out water in really well before starting the sparge. I use about 1 pint of near boiling water per lb grain for the mash out.

-a.

musikguru6 said:

So, do I need to adjust the amount of water that I'm using in my mash - ignore beersmith and calculate my own, or is it more likely to be an issue with the crush?

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99% of the time, it's the crush. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't decide on your mash ratio on your own, and then enter that number into Beersmith.

BTW, you said you use a pH balancer...I assume that's 5.2? That's widely documented to not be effective on most water types. Unless you actually check the pH after using it, yo really won't know if it works for you. In addition, it adds a weird flavor to the beer IMO.

I had a lot of efficiency problems in the past becuase I was using water softened by ion exchange. Sorted now, I use RO

Denny said:

99% of the time, it's the crush. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't decide on your mash ratio on your own, and then enter that number into Beersmith.

BTW, you said you use a pH balancer...I assume that's 5.2? That's widely documented to not be effective on most water types. Unless you actually check the pH after using it, yo really won't know if it works for you. In addition, it adds a weird flavor to the beer IMO.

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Yep, it's 5.2. Didn't know it imparts a weird flavor. Might try my next batch without it. Using filtered city water in Dallas. Need to test the water sometime, but it can't be that bad.

Will also be experimenting with my mash ratios, see if that doesn't help.

I broke out the dreaded rolling pin for my last batch and, one pound at a time, crushed up my grains to about a 50% almost powder looking substance. Low and behold 90% efficiency!!!

I will continue to order my grains crushed, but I have a grain mill ordered to avoid the rolling pin.

I too have been having low efficiencies (mid 60's) with pre-crushed grains.

musikguru6 said:

Yep, it's 5.2. Didn't know it imparts a weird flavor. Might try my next batch without it. Using filtered city water in Dallas. Need to test the water sometime, but it can't be that bad.

Will also be experimenting with my mash ratios, see if that doesn't help.

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The buffer in 5.2 that supposedly keeps the mash pH correct is based on sodium. Too much sodium in beer will give it a weirdly malty flavor.