The same questions day after day...

Before making my first post here, I read Joy of Homebrewing. I then lurked on this forum and others for a while and read a lot of home brew blogs. I then went and watched friends home brew.

Then, I decided to take up the hobby.

When I hit a snag, I spend about 5 minutes searching google and HBT to see if the question has been asked before. If not, I create a thread and then post relevant info like the recipe, equipment used, dates and time frames and some tidbits that might help anyone to answer the question.

Why do so few people do this? I'm not ranting per se' but I feel like a lot of people don't see bubbles in the airlock and jump on HBT or want to dry hop and jump on here and post without searching. The wiki here is really great and I feel like we're to blame because, even though I'm a noob who brewed his first home brew in May, I lurk here daily and often see myself answering the same questions that were answered for me on the Wiki or in joy of homebrewing.

I feel like we are so nice and we answer the same questions again and again without challenging new guys to search before posting. You guys are awesome and very nice to my stupid questions but we're getting new members in the habit of always just posting a new thread instead of searching first.

If this is overly-discussed, fine but is it accepted if I see a common thread and politely link to the wiki on differences between glass carboy and plastic buckets or best practices for dry hopping or how to cold-crash? Just linking to resources is a nice way to show members the info is already out there?


Just thinking out loud.

I hate to admit this, but I gave up answering many of the daily questions because of this. We're not allowed to suggest using the search, and I sort of understand why, but it does get tedious to answer the same questions over and over. eventually, most of the knowledgeable posters that you'll see routinely answering these questions give up. There's only one person who seems to have the patience of a saint who just keeps going and going...

Airborneguy said:

I hate to admit this, but I gave up answering many of the daily questions because of this. We're not allowed to suggest using the search, and I sort of understand why, but it does get tedious to answer the same questions over and over. eventually, most of the knowledgeable posters that you'll see routinely answering these questions give up. There's only one person who seems to have the patience of a saint who just keeps going and going...

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I see Revvy a lot (mostly cause his avatar is easy to remember) and he does a lot of copy & paste of these REALLY great answers so that's cool of him.

----

I didn't know we weren't allowed to suggest searching. I get it's a turn off to new guys..I'm still new and I'd probably get offended if someone did it. I'm just wondering if I say, "Hey, here's a doc that goes over how to dry hop" if that would be acceptable?

Laziness,anticipation or just plain ignorance(not intended to offend).People panic and dont think or just want quick answers. Ive been there. But i generally searched first.It can be complicated with some specifics,when you dont get a reasonable answer after an hour of searching. Or maybe i should technically say reasonable "opinions" rather than answers.

I am kind of annoyed at all the repeated questions that could easily be answered using the quite good search feature on this site.
At times there are so many repeat questions (that could easily be answered with a simple search (i.e. "How do I make a Starter") that I end up skipping most of the posts.
I make a point of not answering these types of questions.
One poster recently posted something like "I don't feel like using the search feature ..."

Reasons to Search before Posting
1. there is a hell of a lot of excellent information on this website, much of it from 2+ years ago. If you don't search, you are relying on a few people answering your post now.(before it gets pushed down by all the other repetitive posts (my fermentation is stuck, etc)
You will end up not learning as much as you may like. I frequently learn a lot about something because of all the side comments. They may lead me on tangents, but its good stuff.

2. I think its inconsiderate to spam the forum with the same questions over and over, I suspect it causes some members to not read as many posts.

3. I make a point to never answer the type of question that is easily answerable with the most basic searches.

4. In this day of Google, searching is 2nd nature. So why when you come here would you think not to use the search feature?
At least make the attempt at a search, and if you can't get an answer, then make a thread.

So I've been on the site for a bit over a year, and post a decent bit. I have started a grand total of maybe 8 threads, one of which was asking for any sort of feedback, the rest were just for discussion. I say this to make it clear that I am totally on board with the idea that almost everything I want to know has been discussed before and I can search and find it.

That said.... not everyone works that way. We can wish that wasn't the case, and we can wish that people would search, but honestly, that's not going to change anything. Some people like to search, some people like to just ask a question. As was mentioned, telling people "search for the answer" is against the policies of this forum, so please don't do that. It doesn't accomplish much. Does anyone really think the concept of a search is foreign to the poster? they are aware they can search, and for whatever reason, opted not to. Maybe the don't think they will get good results. Maybe they've tried the non-google search on this site and found that they didn't get good results. Maybe they don't even know what key words to search for. Maybe they just like personal attention. I dunno. On top of not accomplishing much, it comes across as condescending. If you don't want to answer a question, don't, and that's A-Ok with me. Someone else will.

As for the question about posting links, I post links to other topics all the time. Particularly to stickies or info in the wiki (and the precise This vs that thread the OP referenced). These are great sources of information, and posting a link to them (with maybe a very brief explanation of why its relevant) shows the poster where they can maybe find the information on their own in the future. So honestly, it serves a similar purpose to saying "search", in that it shows the OP how they can find such info on their own, without sounding condescending.

Anyways, just my 2c.

I really think that it is just because people are so jazzed that they are brewing and want to get a question out there ASAP. I have been brewing since '99 and i STILL remember my first few batches where I would pry the lid off of the ale pale every day to see if "it was working"......that goes away with time and experience, but there are many new brewers out there, so I don't see this going away anytime soon.

Ah hahaha....you should have searched to see if someone had made a post about this topic before!!!

Seriously though, the search is kind of hidden so I don't even know most people consider it an option.

Plus I kind of like the fact that there are repetitive questions because it gives new people a chance to ask questions and then when they know the answer they can answer the questions themselves and test/expand/share their own gained knowledge. It is a cycle of sorts were people answer a question 10 times, ignore it from then on out and then the people who they responded to will start answering those questions and so on and so on.

You know, it could be worse: look at reddit's homebrewing section. I guess people don't get as intensely into things as I do, but it does get borderline infuriating to see so much bad advice, misinformation, noob truisms and just people not being all that curious in general about the world. While I've been absorbing hundreds of hours of reading and information on this site and in brewing, chemistry and biology books I guess people are just watching TV or something. I don't just get into things, I get sucked into things.

Can't wait till after Christmas

naiek said:

Can't wait till after Christmas

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Kinda like the gym after new year's.

cmybeer said:

Ah hahaha....you should have searched to see if someone had made a post about this topic before!!!

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HA!

I did actually. I don't usually like built-in site searches so I have a bookmarklet for HBT that I use:

Google.com and type in:

site:homebrewtalk.com query

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Query being what you're searching for. You can use standard syntax like quotes, AND, OR, etc.

This one yielded a few hilarious results - http://bit.ly/N3qDNj

:fro:

Blah! Threads like this also happen way too often in most forums. What is a forum if not for discussion. If you don't like what the thread title is don't read it. This seems to me to be a really quick forum with a lot of knowledgeable homebrewers, if someone needs some info they can't find...heck, they ask! Someone will answer for sure...doesn't have to be you.

Tim_B said:

Blah! Threads like this also happen way too often in most forums. What is a forum if not for discussion. If you don't like what the thread title is don't read it. This seems to me to be a really quick forum with a lot of knowledgeable homebrewers, if someone needs some info they can't find...heck, they ask! Someone will answer for sure...doesn't have to be you.

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You are absolutely right! That's why I added that even some of my stupid questions get great answers. I'm astonished really as to how many awesome people patiently respond to every repeat inquiry. I've replied a few n00b questions myself with my very limited book knowledge and realize that most of the same people beat me to it.

Far more dedicated than I are helping 24/7 for free and it's awesome. This is mostly just a discussion out of curiosity to those who are dedicated.

naiek said:

Can't wait till after Christmas

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Hahaha Yep!

personally I read a lot of these same questions, and put in my input (If someone hasn't beat me to what I was going to say). Even though some things have the same answers... you will find some threads that still teach you something even though you "know" the answer.

My routine lately is looking at "Today's posts" till I find something interesting and I read/comment. Then I go back and do it again.

There is so much knowledge here I just keep reading and reading and reading

Well, in defense of the noobs, this site has the absolute WORST searching capabilities of any forum in existence. So it's hard to fault people for not using it.

SpeedYellow said:

Well, in defense of the noobs, this site has the absolute WORST searching capabilities of any forum in existence. So it's hard to fault people for not using it.

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I don't use the site search (not because it sucks but because I just like Google's Index more)

If you want to give it a shot, visit Google.com and, in the search box:

site:homebrewtalk.com

After the space, type in what you want.

Example: site:homebrewtalk.com dry hopping secondary

This search query alone yielded 41,600 results and it's organized both by amount of replies and date of last reply. Some topics are old like 2009 but have a lot of info compared to some of the threads I see daily here.

Just my advice but only because it works well for me!

:rockin:


Another I used recently: site:homebrewtalk.com how much honey to add to 5 gallons saison 1 lb

You can even restrict to a specific forum. Say, I want to search the Lambic forum on HBT for "brett"

site:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ brettanomyces

287 results all very helpful.

forums work two ways.

1: answer if you can
2 complain about people not searching, then go off the deep end if they resurrect an old thread.

I've found that when I do searches (either within the site or through google), I often find some threads that are full of obviously idiotic 'advice' parroted without any sort of thought put into understanding what the question actually is and some threads with advice/information from experienced home brewer's. And in those threads with info from experienced brewer's I often find bits that seem (or are completely) contradictory. I end up spending a bunch of time trying to figure out which forum members' advice should be trusted. And also reading repetitive explanations that don't quite address the aspect of a question that I would like to have clarified.

And this is a forum. The first definition I found just now for that word is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." If everybody spends their time searching through and reading all of the old threads before they post any questions, the exchange of ideas becomes unidirectional. Sounds boring to me.

adamjackson said:

I don't use the site search (not because it sucks but because I just like Google's Index more)

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You'll get the same results by clicking the little arrow next to "Search" and typing your search terms into the Google search bar (do non-members see this?). One of the many mysteries is why this isn't the default search.

passedpawn said:

You'll get the same results by clicking the little arrow next to "Search" and typing your search terms into the Google search bar (do non-members see this?). One of the many mysteries is why this isn't the default search.

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I don't think non-paying members get the google option. At least I am pretty sure they didn't back before I paid up.

I haven't paid anything. I have the google option as the default.

I think the best way to respond to the every day questions is to politely let them know that the search exists for a reason, but also provide the answer to their question. or at least a link. This is my method at least...

So are you going to tell me how many pineapples I need to put in my wit or not?

Xpertskir said:

So are you going to tell me how many pineapples I need to put in my wit or not?

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Not a TON of answers but there are a few involving pineapples and wit biers...I sense sarcasm but search is pretty awesome sometimes

google

Yeah, it's sort of silly to see the same question day after day. If you're new to something, you would think somebody else has had the same problem as you and search but sometimes panic/excitement sets in and they ask first. Sure, there are also plenty who do not use the search function because they just don't want to. Overall, it's good for the community. Newer brewers gain some knowledge and can start answering those questions. It only gets problematic when bad advice is getting parroted around but the same bad advice can be found using the search function.

I think asking questions gets you involved in the community. If you get constructive feedback, you feel welcome and part of the community. If you get flamed, or ridiculed, you withdraw. If you withdraw you lessen the community by one. You may still hang around, read, research, but your not part of the HBT community. I know many of the early members just watch the often repeated questions, and read along as newer members give advice (good, and not so) that they have gained here. But I also note the really good advice the seasoned members give, without being condescending, or meanly sarcastic. When I look for an answer to a question I have, I search, I find it, and integrate it. I still enjoy being part of the community, I enjoy the passionate, the irreverent, the bombastic, the silly, and the goofy. The combative, not so much, but no ones perfect. HBT members,

Some questions I don't mind answering again and again. These are the ones that took more than a day, multiple threads, multiple threads, and numerous articles to build a baseline off of and then begin experimenting. The drive to brew when mixed with ADD and boredom can be a powerful tool for making great beer right off the bat. So long as you put in the time to do a little research.

I try to only post questions or threads that are very specific as most of the other information does not completely fit what I am looking for or hasn't been posted yet.

The solution is simple. Don't look at noob threads.

If they are three pages long or more, then it's OK to look.

I'm sure almost every question has been answered, minus the few recipe questions. A site like this would not be sustainable without the repeat questions.

I agree with ALL of you!

But I still check out the beginners area and if I see a question I think I can help with I look to see how many posts have followed. If there is only one or two, I fell like i might have something important to add. Generally they already have several responses by the time I get to them.

I don't mind people asking the same questions over and over. For one, the search is not set up (or WAS not set up) for finding the correct threads, and two I am sure that each person who posts thinks their problem is unique.

I suppose, if we can't tell people to search, we probably also can't refer them to this... LOL

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=my+homebrew+fermentation+is+stuck

Just to add my $0.02 (has anyone known me to NOT add my $0.02?), there is something else at play as well. Some people post a question on whatever forum not so much because they feel like they cant get the answer themselves, but as an ice breaker. "Hey just recently I got interested in this thing you people all seem to be interested in... wanna chat a little?"

Of course, some people are idiots and jerks or are lazy but I think there are plenty of people are using that one question for social reasons. Kind of a "so, what's your major" but on the platonic side.

After all, I don't think there are a whole heck of a lot of questions that have never been answered before here...

cmybeer said:

Plus I kind of like the fact that there are repetitive questions because it gives new people a chance to ask questions and then when they know the answer they can answer the questions themselves and test/expand/share their own gained knowledge. It is a cycle of sorts were people answer a question 10 times, ignore it from then on out and then the people who they responded to will start answering those questions and so on and so on.

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+1, as CBXBob and others have said

I see this board more as much about "experience sharing" as it is about "knowledge seeking." Asking questions is a good way for noob brewers/members to start interacting, and it also gives some of the intermediate-skilled members a chance to chime in with their thoughts, suggestions, etc. I think if the site always caved to the more senior members & seasoned brewers based on prior posts, this place would get a little stagnant.

CreamyGoodness said:

After all, I don't think there are a whole heck of a lot of questions that have never been answered before here...

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There's a few. As soon as someone asks about using the CO2 from fermenting beer to lure mosquitos into a bug zapper, I'll answer them. Or, using the CO2 from a fermenting beer to force-carbonate a kegged beer. Or freeze-drying your own yeast with a food saver jar. Or whether beer will ferment in a gravity-less environment (airlock won't work!). They go on an on.

I don't mind the repetitive questions. I like to read them to get everyone's advice. When I was getting started I used the search function to learn how to make yeast starters, and I must say it confused me a lot. Every thread it seemed like someone had a different opinion on how to do it. So I finally broke down and started my own thread just asking people how they did it. For some reason it helped me not stress out over it. Gave me a chance to connect with people who had been doing it for years with good results. After that thread I realized I was overthinking it.

I think the experienced veterans just need to keep reminding themselves that every day there are hundreds of new brewers just starting out. They need information, but they also need encouragement. They just need someone to tell them to relax, don't worry, have a home brew. Just like Charlie P. would tell them.

I also do the "site:homebrewtalk.com" Google search. I usually take a look at the date before I choose which of the 20 threads on the same topic I choose from. I think it's funny to read posts from 10 years ago about using secondaries and now everyone is like, "$&@?! secondaries."

As a n00b I can say, I have a lot of dumb questions but usually I can find the answer by reading Palmer or looking through the forums. The search is successful intermittently (I've searched for the meaning of every way possible and still don't know what it means) but I can usually go to the a specific forum and peruse till I find an answer. I think a lot of it is that the newer folks have the most questions and are less likely to know how to navigate the site, so it's a double whammy. I only figured out what a sticky was after I asked a dumb bottling question and Revvy pointed me in the direction of his all inclusive bottling procedure thread. I guess my main point is to express my thanks for the patience you more experienced brewers have when dealing with us newer folks and our seemingly obvious questions.

Telling people about the search feature is good advice. They may not know it's there. They should be encouraged to use it. I've found it incredibly helpful and to be honest don't understand why people complain about it--but to each their own.

I only look very rarely at the beginners' forum anymore. The threads are too basic and repeated ad nauseum. Kudos to those who take the time to respond over there.