grain mill crush size/setting?

I have a Barley Crusher mill, so I can crush my grains on the brew day, to ensure fresh grain is used.

I have noticed that since going to the cooler mash tun, that my efficiency level has dropped a bit (less than a 10% reduction, going from 78-82% to ~72%)... I'm looking into why I'm getting the lower efficiency levels. One thought, I had, was perhaps it's the grain crush size the mill is set to. I'm using the default setting, from BC, of .039". Would I be better off going larger, or smaller than that? What direction do people tend to take on the crush size in order to see improved efficiency levels? I would like, if nothing else, to get about 75%

For reference, I'm using one of the bazooka screens inside the cooler mash tun, to filter the grain bed. I've not had any stuck sparges to date, so I'm pretty sure the crush size is at least good there. I'm also using the single infusion, no mash out model... I'm not setup for fly sparging and don't really want to get into that just yet.

I hope to have at least a direction to move in before my next brew day (in 2-4 weeks)...

Just a side item, when I was using the BIAB method, I always mashed with 1.5-2.0qt/# of grain. Since going to the cooler, I've been using 1.25-1.5qt/# of grain. Should I try some batches in the 1.5-2.0qt/# mash ratio? Would that have a larger impact than grain crush size? Ultimately, I just want my efficiency to a decent level (IMO) so that I'm getting the most from my grains. If that means changing the crush size, and/or the mash to grain ratio, then I'll do it... Since I'm using a 70qt cooler, I could (probably) even go with a full volume mash and not sparge at all. IF that's going to be a benefit... I do think I'll get better results from the mash/sparge method...

Post up comments, ideas, things that could help me get closer to 75% (in the area of 80% would be great) efficiency levels... Also anyone that wants to give their settings for crush, water to grain ratios for the mash, etc. would be appreciated...

Golddiggie said:

I have a Barley Crusher mill, so I can crush my grains on the brew day, to ensure fresh grain is used.

I have noticed that since going to the cooler mash tun, that my efficiency level has dropped a bit (less than a 10% reduction, going from 78-82% to ~72%)... I'm looking into why I'm getting the lower efficiency levels. One thought, I had, was perhaps it's the grain crush size the mill is set to. I'm using the default setting, from BC, of .039". Would I be better off going larger, or smaller than that? What direction do people tend to take on the crush size in order to see improved efficiency levels? I would like, if nothing else, to get about 75%

For reference, I'm using one of the bazooka screens inside the cooler mash tun, to filter the grain bed. I've not had any stuck sparges to date, so I'm pretty sure the crush size is at least good there. I'm also using the single infusion, no mash out model... I'm not setup for fly sparging and don't really want to get into that just yet.

I hope to have at least a direction to move in before my next brew day (in 2-4 weeks)...

Just a side item, when I was using the BIAB method, I always mashed with 1.5-2.0qt/# of grain. Since going to the cooler, I've been using 1.25-1.5qt/# of grain. Should I try some batches in the 1.5-2.0qt/# mash ratio? Would that have a larger impact than grain crush size? Ultimately, I just want my efficiency to a decent level (IMO) so that I'm getting the most from my grains. If that means changing the crush size, and/or the mash to grain ratio, then I'll do it... Since I'm using a 70qt cooler, I could (probably) even go with a full volume mash and not sparge at all. IF that's going to be a benefit... I do think I'll get better results from the mash/sparge method...

Post up comments, ideas, things that could help me get closer to 75% (in the area of 80% would be great) efficiency levels... Also anyone that wants to give their settings for crush, water to grain ratios for the mash, etc. would be appreciated...

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Grist ration shouldn't have much of an effect. From my knowledge the full volume can sometimes yield lower efficiency depending on the system. For the main part of your question, I have my barley crusher at the default setting and I use a cordless drill. When i just full power the drill I get like 72-75% efficiency on a batch. When mill the grain slower either by hand or slowly with the drill I get about 81-82%. So take that information how you want So if you can mill slower, give that a try

I'll use the cordless drill at a lower speed next time... I've just been using the low speed range (max speed there is 500rpm)... I'll try to go at about 1/2 speed for the next brew and see how it comes out...

I was a bit puzzled since the grain crush size was the same from my previous supplier... I didn't think the ratio would impact things too much. I'm just trying to get enough water in the sparge step to cover the grain..

My next brew will be using almost 20# of grain, so it could be agood test. I've formulated the recipe with a 70% efficiency level. So, if I get higher, I'll be very happy. If not, then at least I won't be below my goal... If I get 80% it will be a much stronger brew (obviously) but it should still come out damned good.

With that brews grain bill, I'll be going for a 90 minute boil time (roughly) instead of my normal 60 minute. That should let me boil off the extra wort needed to hit my target volume. Since I have hop additions starting at 60 minutes, I'll boil until I get to where I normally am at 60 minutes and then proceed. So it could be a shorter, or longer boil (suspect shorter with the propane burner)....

Anyone else have good ideas??

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ncy_in_single_infusion_mashing#Mash_thickness
Mash thickness does apparently change efficiency by quite a bit. You can run into problems hitting the correct pH when using a thinner mash for high efficiency.

rockfish42 said:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ncy_in_single_infusion_mashing#Mash_thickness
Mash thickness does apparently change efficiency by quite a bit. You can run into problems hitting the correct pH when using a thinner mash for high efficiency.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I got confused and was thinking attenuation (just recently saw another post regarding mash ratio and fermentability/flavor.

So should I just start with milling slower or should I reduce the crush size too? Right now it's at .039" but I can change that. I usually do at least 60 minute mash times. Last night I did a 75 minute mash. I'm thinking I'll go back to my 90 minute mash times, give the mash another stir, or two, during that time (I usually get rid of the dough balls and then close it up. I can space the stirring times evenly across the mash time (2 or 3? what do you guys do in the cooler mash tuns?)...

I'm still new to using a cooler mash tun, so I don't expect things to be dead on yet...

I'm thinking that I'll move my old ale brewing to another session now, and brew up the blonde ale next. Although this will make for another light colored ale in my pipeline. Right now I have a Boddington Pub Ale clone, a honey cream ale, my ESB in bottles (as of last night) and just brewed an English Brown Ale... With the Boddington's ale, the cream ale, and the ESB, that's three lighter colored ales in bottles. Which is why I went with the brown ale last night. I would prefer to have positive direction to move in before I use a healthy grain bill next batch...

For the water to grain ratio, I would prefer to keep within the 1.25-1.75qt/# range... That way, I should be able to sparge with enough water to cover the grain bed... I'll also bring my PH test strips with me to the next brew-day... That way I'll at least know what the mash PH is on that day, and I'll be able to adjust (if needed) for the following brew day.

Any other ideas?

Most setting are 0.045, I have it set for 0.039 and last time I oalmost got stock sparge.
Next time I'm going to treat grain with water and keep this setting

Would I be better off, all around, if I increased the gap to either .040 or .041? Or would it not make enough of a difference? I have time to adjust the gap, since I probably won't be brewing another batch for a couple of weeks... Need time to drink some of what's in bottles, so that I can bottle the batch I just started (plan to bottle in about a month)...

I monkey'd around with my barley crusher when I first got it, but have settled on the default setting (sorry, not sure what the specific gap measurement is at default). I mash with 1.25-1.5 qts per #, and have been getting consistently 80%+ mash efficiency for the last 10-15 batches, with many around 85%.

I use the (somewhat) slower setting on my Bosch cordless drill when crushing. There are "1" and "2" settings for coarse-grain speeds, and I use the "1" coarse-grain setting with the finer grain set to the fastest speed (the icon on the drill with the drill bit).

I also use a rectangular cooler with bazooka filter and batch sparge, so it sounds like our configurations are relatively similar. I dump the crushed grain in, then the heated water, stir really well with a long slotted spoon, take a temp reading, make any adjustments to get the temp right then close it up and wait for 60-90 minutes (depending on the recipe).

Hope that helps....best of luck to you!

I'm going to quote one of my brewing idols (and all around nice guy) Denny Conn on crushing and batch sparging: "Crush 'till you're scared".

I have my mill set at .032", and I usually fly sparge. No stuck sparges. I would guess that most of us crush in that area, NOT .042 like someone else mentioned!

beowulf, That actually does help a lot... I'll look to my drill and chance the speed setting there. I think I've been using the drill setting. I'll change it to the 'screw' setting for the next time. Otherwise, I'll just plan to mill at around 1/2 speed, which should come out to about 250rpm... For the next recipe/batch, I'll just leave the gap as it sits (factory is .039")... I think it will be easier to find the more important/influential item by making just one change at a time...

Yooper said:

I'm going to quote one of my brewing idols (and all around nice guy) Denny Conn on crushing and batch sparging: "Crush 'till you're scared".

I have my mill set at .032", and I usually fly sparge. No stuck sparges. I would guess that most of us crush in that area, NOT .042 like someone else mentioned!

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Ahhh, the brewing idols... Are they made from stone or gold?

How fast do you crush your grain?

Golddiggie said:

Ahhh, the brewing idols... Are they made from stone or gold?

How fast do you crush your grain?

Click to expand...

He looks pretty human, actually. Or stoned. I'm not sure which.
(Denny, if you're reading, I'm kidding!)

Bob has been crushing the last few batches, and it's a nice looking crush. It's a drill and Bob goes as slow as he can with the drill. But it's still MUCH faster than when I hand crush!

My friend lschiavo ALWAYS does malt conditioning, and I think his grain is even more crushed than mine, but I don't know his gap settings offhand. His efficiency with his HERMS is always 80%+, mine is usually right at 75%.

Seems like the first change to make is crush speed... Once I have that nailed, I'll start monkeying around with the crush size (maybe)...

Just wish I didn't have to wait a couple/few weeks before the next brew day...

Yooper said:

Bob has been crushing the last few batches, and it's a nice looking crush. It's a drill and Bob goes as slow as he can with the drill. But it's still MUCH faster than when I hand crush!

Click to expand...

My drill stinks! I did a 6 gallon batch of pale ale last weekend. I had a fully charged battery for the drill...It made it through like 8 or 9 of my 12 pounds of grain - Had to hook up the handle and start cranking! Also, my drill has to be at the highest torque setting to even spin. Im now curious as to how decreasing the gap (something closer to your .032) and letting my drill work at full speed would do, but then again, I just started being able to predict my efficiency. Looks like I will be working out my pythons on brew day!

Did a much slower crush for yesterday's brew session... If anything, efficiency went down.

I'm starting to think it has more to do with the size of the cooler I'm mashing in and how much grain I use in the batch. Since I'm using the 70 quart Coleman Xtreme cooler (it's what I had on hand), could that be it? I'm going to see (today) if I can locate a 48 quart rectangular cooler to swap the ball valve and bazooka screen into. I can keep the 70qt cooler for large grain bills, and larger batch (10+ gallons) mashing. I did check with the racker's site and it looks like I'll be able to mash up to about 25# of grain in a 48qt cooler mash tun... Since most of my brews are using 10-15# right now, with the occasional 18-24# bill, this could be a better decision. Plus, if the cooler is a little smaller (outside width) then it will help on brew day too.

Anyone else think that the new cooler is a good idea? If I cannot locate a cooler I like today, I at least have about two more weeks before I brew again. Gives me more time to locate one.

Golddiggie said:

Did a much slower crush for yesterday's brew session... If anything, efficiency went down.

I'm starting to think it has more to do with the size of the cooler I'm mashing in and how much grain I use in the batch. Since I'm using the 70 quart Coleman Xtreme cooler (it's what I had on hand), could that be it? I'm going to see (today) if I can locate a 48 quart rectangular cooler to swap the ball valve and bazooka screen into. I can keep the 70qt cooler for large grain bills, and larger batch (10+ gallons) mashing. I did check with the racker's site and it looks like I'll be able to mash up to about 25# of grain in a 48qt cooler mash tun... Since most of my brews are using 10-15# right now, with the occasional 18-24# bill, this could be a better decision. Plus, if the cooler is a little smaller (outside width) then it will help on brew day too.

Anyone else think that the new cooler is a good idea? If I cannot locate a cooler I like today, I at least have about two more weeks before I brew again. Gives me more time to locate one.

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How deep was your grainbed yesterday? What was your grist ratio and efficiency? I have the 52 quart coleman extreme and sometimes do 8lb mashes and dont have a dip in the efficiency. The extra space really would only cause you to lose heat faster, but if you maintained a temp in the mashing range I would think you'd be fine. If you really think this is the problem then you could put some books under one end of the cooler so the mash is on one side of the cooler and creates a deeper grainbed?

Its not unreasonable to assume that the slower drill speed (which seems to work for me) is not the answer to your efficiency problem. If I were you I would just try another variable next time. If you really think its the tun size you can probably get some foam insulation or ping pong balls to lay on top of the mash to retain heat better.

Grain bill was only 11.25# last night, so it wasn't all that deep. I mashed at 1.75qt/#, which is still within a good range. I usually go anywhere from 1.25qt-2qt/# of grain. When I was doing BIAB, I would use the same range and get 78-82% efficiency. The cooler was maybe 1/3 filled during the mash, which I'm starting to think is more of the issue. Grain crush size is the same as when I was getting better efficiencies too.

Even my barley wine recipe, on deck, only has 22.5# of grain listed. So a cooler that can handle that much grain, with minimal head space is probably what I'm looking for... So the 40-48qt rectangular, or at least able to accept my current valve and screening setup. My next higher grain bill brew, my old ale mk II has almost 17.5# of grain listed. I'll need about 8 gallons of space for the old ale...

With the bazooka screen, I don't think using something to tilt the cooler would be a good idea. I also don't like the idea of trying to increase the grain bed depth through artifial additions. I won't be tossing out the larger cooler, just setting it aside for when I actually NEED to use it for a brew, or maybe I'll just turn it back into a regular cooler and use it like that. I know, it sounds like crazy talk to me too.

IF I didn't already have the 70qt cooler when I was looking to make a mash tun, I probably would have ended up with a 40-48qt cooler... I'll just look to find one in that range, that's well insulated already... Shouldn't be all that expensive... If this helps the batch efficiency, and helps maintain the mash temps better, then it's going to be a very good thing... It might even make sense to do a double sparge for larger brews this way. I'll just measure the assembly that's inside the cooler and make sure I have enough clearance in the new one.

BTW, the mash and sparge went very well, I was able to get the temps in line with what I wanted, and held them for the right amount of time. I just think that the bed depth is now an item that needs to be addressed before my next batch. Especially before I make the barley wine... That's one that's on the list for within the next 3 batches. Next up is an ESB with a 12# grist. Then DOM mk II followed by the barley wine...

I am of the crush it til you are scared mentality, I condition the malt, crush at 200 or so RPM and my Barley Crusher is set to .028"

I have yet to have a stuck sparge, and average 87-89% eff. my last 10 gallon batch hit 93% efficiency, using a 1.33:1 ratio, a simple mashout with only the volume absorbed by the grain, and double batch sparge. I use a Igloo Ice Cube cooler, a stainless braid, and I drain rather slowly. Oh, I am also a mashtun tipper too, so I get every drop I can out of it.

Well not sure how your system is set up, but if you get another cooler, you can use the 70 qt as a hot liquor tank in a gravity fed system or with a pump in a single tier. Or like you said, use it as a cooler

As far as the efficiency goes. What amounts of water to grain were you doing for brew in a bag? I know the more water there is could affect the ph a bit? Maybe your mash would work better with a thinner mash? Just throwing ideas out there. Keep us posted

Have you actually gapped the rollers? When I checked the factory gap with feeler gauges it wasn't a consistent measurement. The roller ends were not set the same. I did regap it to .035".

Something easy to do is just extend the mash schedule. When I do a single infusion for 60 minutes my efficiency tends to sway more from batch to batch. Bumping it up to 2 or 3 hours my numbers are predictable and higher.

I was usually going with 1.5-2qt/# when using the BIAB method... Mostly because my sparge pot was only 20 quarts, so I had to mash with more water in order to be able to sparge reasonably well. With the cooler, I don't have such limitations...

Since I still have a 20 quart pot to heat the sparge water with, as well as my 32 quart kettle (I use that to heat the mash water, and then pour the worts into for the boil) I don't really need (at this point) to use the 70 quart cooler as a HLT... Not to say that I won't in the future, I just won't/don't need to right now...

I'll be heading out to stores in a little bit to hunt down a 40-48 quart cooler to use. I am using the 12" Bazooka screen with a 1/2" ball valve in the cooler. Using a short length of silicon tubing to connect them up. I also drilled a wood mixing paddle to use as a dedicated mash paddle. I was using the same paddle to mix the mash, as well as to measure the kettle volume. I decided it was a better idea to have one tool for each job, so it was just a matter of putting in 3 ~1" holes into the paddle. Helped mix the mash, and get rid of any dough balls really easily yesterday. It's a bit ghetto looking, but it gets the job done...

I'll post up the results from the next brew day with the smaller cooler...

I confirmed the gap in my mill at .039", which is the same I was getting when using the BIAB method... I do either 75 or 90 minute mashes... I might shift back to just all 90 minute mashes moving forward. I don't brew at home (due to a neurotic LL right now) so I'd rather not go 2-3 hours for the mash. I could get away with a 90 minute mash, maybe 105 minutes, but longer than that will really extend out the brew day and we're trying to be done before midnight. One of the problems is starting in the afternoon, which we're working on... I might do a 120 minute mash for the old ale and longer for the barley wine... Although I have read that you're mash is pretty much done within the first hour, so longer might not give you all that much return. Unless you're mashing thicker...

Goldiggie, did you ever state what your efficiency was last batch? I know you said you got 78%-82% when doing brew in a Bag. Just wondering how far off of that you were with the last batch in the cooler

68% with yesterday's brewing... Previous two/three were at 72% with a bit more grain... Mash times were the same (75-90 minutes), same sparge schedule... Previous batches were mashed with 1.375-1.5qt/#, yesterday was 1.75qt/#...

Thinking that the smaller cooler, and about 1.5qt/# will be a good test for the next batch... Should give me a mash that's not too thick, or too thin, with a good bed depth too...

Golddiggie, I really don't have much to add that can help you. I just wanted to say that I also have an extreme cooler at 62 qt. and after 5 batches I've coincidentally only been getting 71-73% also. I'm doing 10-16 lbs. which my LHBS crushes, do 1.25 qts and single sparge. I know consistency is key, but I'd like to know how some of these people get 80% and higher. So, I'm going to pay attention here and see if you get a solution to your issue.

wolverinebrewer, I'm just looking to get in the mid 70's on a regular basis. I'd probably be ok with the lower numbers, if it wasn't for the fact that I was getting better results before... I also might adjust the mill setting to a slightly smaller gap, but I don't think that's the issue here. I'm typically using about 10-12# of base malt, and under 2# of other grains in a batch. Yesterday was 10# base, with 1.25# of specialty grains... Nothing too wild, so I don't think the grain ratio's is the issue.

If I can get this figured out, and someone else can benefit from the information, then it's even more worth the effort...

I just went through a decreased efficiency spell that was solved by allowing the tun to fully, really completely drain. Went from 70% to 86%. I had to elevate one end of the cooler pretty severely propping it up, but the added time is worth it. BTW my mill is set at .30

-d

I just did a little test with the mash tun I have (didn't locate a suitable new cooler locally just yet)... I lose almost 1qt in the bottom of the cooler/mash tun right now. I tested with about just under 2 gallons of water, letting it drain as I would normally. IF I lift one end of the cooler to get the water to move a bit, I get a little more out of it (maybe a cup) getting the lost amount to just under 1qt. So even if I lose 1.25qt to the bottom of the cooler, I can't see that impacting the efficiency to this degree. It does explain why I haven't been nailing my pre-boil volumes though. So, I'll adjust the settings in BeerSmith for the amount I'll lose (going with the slightly higher amount to leave room for error)... I've also adjusted for what I've been getting for a boil-off rate and to make sure I leave a bit of the trub in the bottom of the kettle (adding another quart for that)...

I still think I need to go with a smaller cooler on this, since there really is way too much head space in the one I have right now.

I'm not about to mess with the crush size, since I need to at least get a more stable result with the mash tun. Once I have that figured out (for my more common grain bills) then I can start looking into changing the crush size of the grain. Part of why I don't think it's a grain crush size issue is due to the results I had while using the BIAB method.

Looks like the cooler/mash tun isn't the entire issue here...

I'm thinking of trying with 1.25qt/# for the mash with the next batch. I might adjust the crush size to a bit smaller... Thinking of going to about .037" (it's at .039") to see if the combination is at least moving in the right direction.

I'd still like to know why I got better efficiency numbers with BIAB with 1.5-2qt/# in the mash... I still have the grain bags, so I could use those in the new cooler (Rubbermaid 10 gallon round) mash tun along with a smaller crush size (closer to .030")...

My next brew is going to have a rather hefty grain bill... It's going to either be a barley wine with 22.5# of grain, or an old ale with almost 20# of grain. Leaning more towards the barley wine, since I have an old ale on hand in enough supply to be able to wait to brew it again (waiting until I have this all figured out)... At least the next batch won't cost me as much, since the base malt will be supplied (sponsored brew-day on May 7th).

Golddiggie said:

Looks like the cooler/mash tun isn't the entire issue here...

I'm thinking of trying with 1.25qt/# for the mash with the next batch. I might adjust the crush size to a bit smaller... Thinking of going to about .037" (it's at .039") to see if the combination is at least moving in the right direction.

I'd still like to know why I got better efficiency numbers with BIAB with 1.5-2qt/# in the mash... I still have the grain bags, so I could use those in the new cooler (Rubbermaid 10 gallon round) mash tun along with a smaller crush size (closer to .030")...

My next brew is going to have a rather hefty grain bill... It's going to either be a barley wine with 22.5# of grain, or an old ale with almost 20# of grain. Leaning more towards the barley wine, since I have an old ale on hand in enough supply to be able to wait to brew it again (waiting until I have this all figured out)... At least the next batch won't cost me as much, since the base malt will be supplied (sponsored brew-day on May 7th).

Click to expand...

A hefty grain bill will decrease your efficiency so just be aware. The reason is simple, really- it's not that the mash efficiency will change of course, but the fact that you'd undersparge for a large grainbill. What I mean is that instead of 1.5-2 quarts per pound of sparge water typical in most small grainbills, you'd stop at 6.5 or 7 gallons (whatever your boil volume is). As a result, you'd be undersparging. So for big beers, I always assume a lower efficiency. Instead of 72-75% (usual for me), I'd plan 65-68%.

I was just reading the May-June issue of BYO and I might make the barley wine using a hybrid system of BIAB in the cooler mash tun... Of course, I'm going to check the actual screen size in the tun, and determine if I need to use the bag as well. I'm using a bazooka screen in the tun, so I'm not sure how small a crush I could go with and not have issues. I'm also thinking of going with a 120 minute boil, so that I can use more sparge water... Using fermcap I should be able to get ~7.5 gallons of wort into my 8 gallon kettle. Or, I'll just use my 15 gallon kettle for that batch, and sparge a bit more.

The reason I'm thinking of using the bag in the mash tun is so that I can use a smaller crush size. I'll get as much water into it as I can (1.375qt/# or a bit more) and then sparge with as close to 3 gallons as I can.

Of course, I could just put that brew to the side for another time and go with a more modest ale with about 12-15# of grain in it... Then I could test the theory of a slightly smaller crush as well as more water in the mash. I will have to see if I can get away with a .035" crush with my current mash tun setup, and not get a stuck sparge... I also think I'll stir the mash more often than I have been. I used to stir about every 15-20 minutes. Since going with the cooler, I've only stirred at the start, to get the dough-balls out, and then towards the end. So perhaps more stirring is the real answer here.

I do think that it was a good idea to go with the smaller cooler now... The 70qt, while great for capacity, simply had too much dead-space in it. It was becoming more difficult to keep the temp where I wanted it during the entire mash time. Yesterday's batch was a lot easier to maintain, since there was less dead-space in the cooler.

Ok, so after all that, what would you change next?
Stir every 15-20 minutes during the mash (I typically do 90 minute mashes)?
Crush the grains smaller (what should I step to for the next batch? .037, .035, .033?)??
Mash with as much water as possible (keeping under 2qt/#) and sparge with as much as possible too? I would have to keep the volume to a level where I won't have boil-overs in my kettle, and try to keep the boil times to under 120 minutes (~90 would be ok)...

Thinking that I should be able to get to 1.5-2qt/# in the mash, and still sparge with a good amount of water. Thinking back, I was doing more 90+ minute boils when doing BIAB to get the volume to where I needed it. So maybe I should go back to that too. Water is cheap, as is time... I just need to be sure to have the correct amount of brewing water measured out before starting.

Golddiggie said:

Ok, so after all that, what would you change next?
Stir every 15-20 minutes during the mash (I typically do 90 minute mashes)?
Crush the grains smaller (what should I step to for the next batch? .037, .035, .033?)??
Mash with as much water as possible (keeping under 2qt/#) and sparge with as much as possible too? I would have to keep the volume to a level where I won't have boil-overs in my kettle, and try to keep the boil times to under 120 minutes (~90 would be ok)...

Thinking that I should be able to get to 1.5-2qt/# in the mash, and still sparge with a good amount of water. Thinking back, I was doing more 90+ minute boils when doing BIAB to get the volume to where I needed it. So maybe I should go back to that too. Water is cheap, as is time... I just need to be sure to have the correct amount of brewing water measured out before starting.

Click to expand...

I don't stir beyond stirring like crazy at dough in. I check the temperatures in several places, and if it's different, it needs more stirring. I stir until the temperature is uniform throughout, which is MUCH more stirring that one can assume. Then, never again. I don't open the MLT at all, except I used to check the temperature after about 30 minutes when I first started because I didn't know if it would drop. After about 4 years with the same MLT, I drop less than one degree an hour so don't bother checking it anymore. (This is all without HERMS, which is a whole 'nother subject for me now!) I do 60 minute mashes except for adjunct-filled recipes.

My gap as been at .032" for years. It's perfect for me.

A good goal is to shoot for roughly "equal" runnings. What I mean by this is to mash with a good amount to get you to your pH and desired mash thickness, and then sparge with a roughly equal amount, using no more than 3 quarts per pound total. Does that make sense? It would vary with the size of the grainbill, but don't put more than a total of 3 quarts/pound of water though your grain.

What kind of manifold/screen do you have in your mash tun? I'll see if .032" is larger than the spaces in the bazooka screen in mine. If it is, then I should be ok. If not, then I'll need to go between .039" and .032" for my gap...

For the amount of total water going through the grain, looking over my past several batches (all using the cooler MLT) I've been under 3qt/# total water... Highest was 2.844qt/#... I've adjusted my equipment in BeerSmith to account for the loss at the bottom of the cooler/MLT (2 quarts there) as well as what I leave behind in the kettle and in the hop bags. Pretty much nailed my volume into primary with yesterday's batch by making those adjustments.

I think I'll do the minimal stirring once the dough balls are gone, as well as the temperature is stable. I will try for a smaller crush size in the next batch too. Just need to see how small I can go with the bazooka screen... Anyone know on that point?

Golddiggie said:

What kind of manifold/screen do you have in your mash tun? I'll see if .032" is larger than the spaces in the bazooka screen in mine. If it is, then I should be ok. If not, then I'll need to go between .039" and .032" for my gap...

For the amount of total water going through the grain, looking over my past several batches (all using the cooler MLT) I've been under 3qt/# total water... Highest was 2.844qt/#... I've adjusted my equipment in BeerSmith to account for the loss at the bottom of the cooler/MLT (2 quarts there) as well as what I leave behind in the kettle and in the hop bags. Pretty much nailed my volume into primary with yesterday's batch by making those adjustments.

I think I'll do the minimal stirring once the dough balls are gone, as well as the temperature is stable. I will try for a smaller crush size in the next batch too. Just need to see how small I can go with the bazooka screen... Anyone know on that point?

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If you've answered this already, I apologize, but you're batch sparging I assume? With the bazooka screen I assume you are, but I wanted to double check.

Golddiggie said:

I'm also using the single infusion, no mash out model...

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Why not try a double infusion? Raising the temperature during the second infusion can help make the sugars more soluble.

cravej said:

Why not try a double infusion? Raising the temperature during the second infusion can help make the sugars more soluble.

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Really? I've never heard that before. How would that happen?

I'm mirroring, as close as possible, how I did BIAB all grain... Only difference is I now use the cooler to hold the grain and water at temperature, instead of fighting with pots.

I do the single infusions, no mash out method ("Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).")... I typically mash in the 150-154F range (depends on the brew) and then sparge with water that's 168-170F... Sparge rest times range from 15-30 minutes before I drain that wort into the kettle and start heating to a boil...

BTW, trying to heat up the wort in the mash, or measuring out the sparge water into equal parts, to then add a lower amount each time, is beyond my gear capability and my comfort zone. I already increase the temp with the second water addition (re: sparge)...

My brews are tasting really great, so I'm not looking to change the process all that much. Just looking to tweak where it makes sense to get a bit better efficiency on a reliable basis. If I could get over 75% for more average grain bills (under 16#) I'd be very happy... I'm even debating installing another ball valve into the 70qt cooler, with the original bazooka screen, so that I have two mash tuns available to me. That way, I won't need to do anything to use either one. Maybe I'll change the kettle valve over to a three piece SS model and shift the brass one over to the mash tun...

I've also noticed the need to vorlauf for both the mash and sparge wort. I've even gone so far as to use one of the nylon hop bags on the end of the silicon tube running into the kettle, to keep particles out of the wort that's going to be boiled. With the next batch, I'll probably secure that bag with a zip tie, so that I can hold it with just one hand and not worry about it slipping. I did it for the first time with Sunday's brewing. Like the results. Just another thing I didn't need to do when using the BIAB method. I hope to not go back to that camp, but if I can skirt both sides and get solid results, I can live with it. After all, what we do is in the pursuit of great home brew time and again. :rockin:

Too fine a crush can restrict the flow of sparge water washing the residual sugars. Need to ensure that the water gets good contact with the grains while washing it down

Yooper said:

Really? I've never heard that before. How would that happen?

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That is why you mashout, or at least raise the temperature of the sparge water. Raising the temperature of the grain bed to ~170°F makes it less viscous (more fluid).

See if John Palmer's explanation makes more sense:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html

weiht, I already know that, which is why I'm looking for feedback from people who have the same screen I do to see what crush size they are using. If I can't get the info, then I'll start going lower a little at a time. The next step, for me, would be .037" gap.

cravej, as I already mentioned, I sparge once the mash is done with hotter water... I might try a bit warmer with the next batch to see what that does. I've not bothered to get a temperature reading of the sparge water/grain mix yet... So maybe I'll sparge with 175F water and see what it stabilizes the entire volume to. I'll be mashing at 152F in the next batch, a pretty common mash temp...