sparge water volume

I guess in any formulation/calculation, there's always one number that might give people trouble. I still can't wrap my brain around using some software (Beer Tools Pro in this instance) and figuring sparge water volume.

The goal is to reach an amount in your boil kettle (pre-boil) that will leave you with your goal amount of wort (post-boil) after evap and such. Correct?

So if I'm using just over 3 gal water for my 1.25 ratio for mash, and I want to aim for 7.6 gal in my boil kettle to get 5 gal in the end (well, 5.5 and allowing for .5 gal loss etc)...

a) just "simply" take first runnings, recirculate back in during my batch sparge, and then keep running water through until I achieve 7.6 gal in the kettle (because grain has already absorbed its water)?

b) use a calculator like brew 365's and it gives me about 7.07gal for sparge (will split into two for my batch sparge)?

I guess, in the end...option a) is the winner, really...

And what are people using for temperatures of sparge water? I've seen from 168 to 185. Just curious--looking for a poll answer I guess.

J

Assume roughly 1 qt per pound of water absorption in the mash. After that, the math is easy. You need as much total water as you expect to boil, plus 1 qt for every pound of grain that you mash.

9.86 # grain bill for this one. So you're saying roughly 10 qt absorption?

So I expect to boil 7.5 gallons, give or take.

Plus 12.5 quarts. That's 3.12 gallons plus 7.5 gallons, 10.62 gallons total.

Software is saying 8.28 gallons sparge water, 11.36 g total.

who cares what the software says before you get it done...

get it done, then do the math on the fly...

i dont care what the software says, i use it to tell me how much to strike with, but not how much to sparge with...

if i collect 4 gallons first runnings on a 10gal batch, i strike with 7.5 gallons

i end up with 11.5gal in the kettle and then just boil a little harder than i usually do so i boil off the extra 1.5 gallons in 60 min. or accomodate for a 90 min boil, etc..

i dont care what the software says.. sometimes i get more or less first runnings based on how much rice hulls i use or maybe even the specific type of grain or diff mash temps... i just go with the flow and get it done. beersmith does not dare tell me how my brew day will go, besides giving me a target OG...


:rockin:

Nice! I'll take advice from someone with 175 gallons for the year, haha.

Good reasoning. Thanks for that. Up late, brain already asleep; brewing in 7 hours so better grab a nap.

I guess that's another thing I'm not "getting" as I'm only 6 AG brews in, boiling longer/harder to reduce vs. stopping filling the kettle at whatever volume. I suppose you want to definitely make sure you're getting all the sugars out of the mash tun rather than just arbitrarily stopping at a certain gallon amount. If it takes you 11.5 gal total to get all the fermentables out, so be it.

Are you measuring gravity when you sparge/lauter? Just curious.

p.s. let me know how your Celebration clone turns out!

I always figure on about 4-5 gallons extra water needed per 15 gallon batch, which equates to about the same one qt/lb absorption ratio. I prep 20 gallons of water to brew 15 gallons of beer.

OK, thanks. And with regard to the boil (slightly off topic now), differences in boiling longer from larger volume liquid compared to boiling shorter from smaller volume?
ie: boil 7.6 gal 1.5 hrs or boil 10 gal 3 hrs...

I guess it depends how much you get out of your lauter tun and the efficiency of that.

And it all still ends up as beer!

Yuri_Rage said:

Assume roughly 1 qt per pound of water absorption in the mash. After that, the math is easy. You need as much total water as you expect to boil, plus 1 qt for every pound of grain that you mash.

Click to expand...

Correction, the ratio is more like 1/2 quart per pound of absorption. I don't think well in quarts though so it's .125 gallons per pound.

Jfriah said:

OK, thanks. And with regard to the boil (slightly off topic now), differences in boiling longer from larger volume liquid compared to boiling shorter from smaller volume?
ie: boil 7.6 gal 1.5 hrs or boil 10 gal 3 hrs...

I guess it depends how much you get out of your lauter tun and the efficiency of that.

And it all still ends up as beer!

Click to expand...

I only figure for a 60 minute boil which boils off about 1.5 gallons for me. I'll go up to a 90 minute boil for pils heavy grain bills but it's not for efficiency's sake. Gas and time is more expensive than grain.

Jfriah said:

a) just "simply" take first runnings, recirculate back in during my batch sparge, and ...

J

Click to expand...

I'm curious as to what you mean here exactly. You don't want to put first runnings back in during a sparge. I guess you could be referring to the short vorlauf to clear the wort but you don't want to mix runnings with sparge in the mashtun.

Jfriah said:

And what are people using for temperatures of sparge water? I've seen from 168 to 185. Just curious--looking for a poll answer I guess.

J

Click to expand...

Assuming you don't do anything else to raise the mash temp prior to sparging, go with 185F.

I keep it rather simple. 1.25qts:1lb grain for strike water. 2qt:1lb sparge water. Sparge water is heated to 175, really just because it's an easy mark to read on my thermometer. My standard grain bill is 9lbs (1.048-1.050) and usually have to top off after the boil to get my 5.5 gallon mark. A 10 lb grain bill will usually leave me on the money if not a little over. I like to be a little shy that way I can always adjust to my 5.5 gallon mark and have one less variable to deal with from batch to batch.

Why would you ding your efficiency by topping off the kettle? Sparge an extra 1/2 gallon.

Bobby_M said:

Why would you ding your efficiency by topping off the kettle?

Click to expand...

Consistency. I'm not going to change my water to grain ratio just because I need more or less wort in the kettle. If that was the case I would have to cut my sparge short on a larger grain bill so it doesn't put me over. Not going to happen. I'll count on an extented boil and again would rather boil a little too much off. On average 5.5 gallons in the kettle will yield me 5 finished gallons, anything more gets left behind. Which is why I would rather be slightly under and top off.

Bobby_M said:

Correction, the ratio is more like 1/2 quart per pound of absorption. I don't think well in quarts though so it's .125 gallons per pound.

Click to expand...

I use 20-30 lbs of grain in my 1/2 bbl batches. Assuming I use all 20 gallons of water to get 17.5 gallons of wort into the kettle, the grain absorption rate is indeed more like 1/2 quart per pound of grain (or even slightly less).

Bobby, I used barrels, gallons, and quarts in the same post, just for you.

I'm not sure if it's the best method, but I measure my first runnings, subtract that amount from the amount I want in the kettle, the divide that amount into two equal batch sparges.

Eg: Say I want 7.5 Gal in the kettle. I collect 2 gals. of first runnings. I would sparge with two 2.75gal Sparges.

kornbread said:

I'm not sure if it's the best method, but I measure my first runnings, subtract that amount from the amount I want in the kettle, the divide that amount into two equal batch sparges.

Eg: Say I want 7.5 Gal in the kettle. I collect 2 gals. of first runnings. I would sparge with two 2.75gal Sparges.

Click to expand...

That's absolutely the easiest way to be foolproof but I've come to find that Beertoolspro is exactly correct for me so I don't have to heat any extra water.

That's the easiest way, but it requires real time data. If you are trying to prep all of the brew water at once (for example, if you need to use Campden tablets to neutralize chloramine), it'd be nice to know how much you need in advance.

Jfriah said:

p.s. let me know how your Celebration clone turns out!

Click to expand...

Here is the recipe

http://www.brew365.com/beer_sierra_nevada_celebration_ipa.php

I'm going to dry hop today and then keg it next weekend. It tastes fantastic right now, and pretty close to the real thing..

But here dude

http://www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

Read that. All of it. Then read it again. Concentrate on the part halfway down that says NMODBS. Then next time you brew, follow those instructions. Easy as pie. I consistently get ~80% efficiency now using that exact method. NMODBS, get it done.

jackson_d said:

Here is the recipe

http://www.brew365.com/beer_sierra_nevada_celebration_ipa.php

I'm going to dry hop today and then keg it next weekend. It tastes fantastic right now, and pretty close to the real thing..

But here dude

http://www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

Read that. All of it. Then read it again. Concentrate on the part halfway down that says NMODBS. Then next time you brew, follow those instructions. Easy as pie. I consistently get ~80% efficiency now using that exact method. NMODBS, get it done.

Click to expand...

...zomie thread...

Thanks for the no mash double sparge link. I'll have to think about that. 'm close to it now, I just mash then sparge twice.

What are you rest times?