Tonight I'm Gonna Parti (gyle) Like It's 1699

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Chad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
12
Location
Apex, NC
Actually tomorrow morning but I couldn't resist a riff on the song.

Going really old school on my brew day tomorrow and doing a parti-gyle brew. For those not familiar, it's a really old technique where you make a big beer with the first runnings of the mash and smaller beers with each successive run rather than combining all of the wort into one beer. I only have a 5 gallon mash tun so I'm going to do two mashes. The heavy first runnings from each will become about four gallons of Old Ale (1.090 or so) for long aging and the second and third runnings from each will become (I hope) about six gallons of Mild (1.036 if my napkin math is correct). This will be the first time I've attempted a double batch. Should be quite a learning experience :rolleyes: . Any advice or past experiences greatly appreciated.

Chad
 
I've done a couple partigyle brewdays. Only advice I can give is to set aside the whole day for it, because it takes quite a long time.

One of the nice things about partigyle is that you can alter the second beer a bit by adding in a small amount of specialty grains onto the mash before you add the second lot of sparge water. Good options for this are crystal malts, and chocolate/roasted malts. This way, it's quite easy to make a strong brown ale, add in a 1/4 pound of chocolate, and you got a stout for the second beer.

My next partigyle will probably be for some belgian style beers. Perhaps a triple, followed by an addition of some caravienne to the mash and then a darker, unrefined sugar in the boil to make a dubbel.

Good luck tomorrow!
 
Okay from smacking my Wyeast 1099 at 6:00am to scrubbing out the last pot at 6:00pm it was a long freaking brew day, with less downtime than I had anticipated (meaning some proofreading I intended to get done, uh, didn't).

On the very, very good side:
  • I had great efficiency -- the big beer was 1.090 going into the kettle :rockin:
  • I hit my numbers dead on (with a little finagling of the mash temperatures)
  • I test drove some new gear with great success -- my new keggle is amazing
  • I explored a very old brewing technique and made it work

On the not so good side:
  • Adding Diastatic Malt Powder to the mashes was an absolute disaster. The mash was thick and sludgy, and draining the mash tun and sparging the first time took nearly two hours. On the upside, the wort was crystal clear after having been so finely filtered :rolleyes:
  • Trying to brew two batches simultaneously, one inside and one outside, was not my most brilliant plan.
  • A full keggle is f'ing heavy, which I discovered after realizing that my garden hose wouldn't reach as far into the garage as I thought. I had to shut everything down, move the keggle full of boiling wort (and the hot stand) and fire everything up again. That wouldn't be so bad if I didn't make the same mistake a couple of hours later when I filled the keg with PBW and hot water before moving it out of my wife's parking space. Oy.

The outcome:
  • 4 gallons of 1.104 Old Ale
  • 7 gallons of 1.040 Mild
Both currently at 64º with the Old Ale already chugging away at the airlock (2L of harvested 1028 London Ale yeast will do that), though the Mild hasn't taken off yet. I was only thinking about the gravity rather than the volume when deciding that I didn't need a starter for my 1099 Whitbread, so it's going to take a little longer to get started. The Old Ale will go three weeks in primary, probably another three in secondary (still haven't decided) and -- if all goes according to plan -- a year in bottles so it will be ready for drinking next Christmas. The Mild is getting two weeks in primary then straight to bottles.

Chad

edit: solecism
 
TerapinChef said:
I'm coonfused why this would take so much longer...I'm assuming that you are planning on boiling both batches at the same time though...

The smart way to do multiple batches is to mash the second while the first is boiling. A much more efficient use of time and energy. However, because I have a 5 gallon mash tun and needed to do two mashes before I could even start boiling, it took quite a bit longer than it should. A 10 gallon mash tun would solve a lot of problems, but I am out to prove that you can do a lot with just a 5 gallon if you put your mind to it.

Chad
 
Can you post your grain bill? just curious on how many pounds of grain you needed to get 11 gallons. Thanks - Dirk
 
20lbs Marris Otter British pale malt
2lbs Crystal 80
1lb Biscuit Malt

The grains were split into two 11.5lb mashes. Strike water was 16qts @ 169º for a mash temp. of 153-154ºF & drained 10qts of first runnings from each mash. Batch sparged to get 16qts of 2nd/3rd runnings. When combined, that put 5 gallons of big beer into the kettle and 8 gallons of the smaller beer.

I should note that the Old Ale also got .75lbs of dark molasses in the boil to add some color/flavor and up the gravity just a little. It would have been a full pound but my wife used some for molasses cookies (yum).

Chad
 
Awesome! You did a fine job!

Isn't it fun exploring ancient techniques? I tried it a few years ago, but I did it slightly differently. I mashed a Belgian-style Quadruppel (OG ~1.100 after the addition of invert sugar) and sparged it out. (Since this was at work, I didn't have the freedom to play that much!)

As an aside, mashing the Quad was never fun; having your 12bbl mash tun heaping like a bowl of very thick McGann's Oatmeal in order to get 5bbl of wort in the fermenter is a *****. But a very lucrative, tasty *****. :D

Anyway, as the last runnings from the Quad sparge were run into the kettle, I just closed the valve, kept the sparge running, and started stirring the ever-so-thick mash as it got more soupy. From there, it was "cover it up and let it rest" while I boiled and cast the Quad wort.

Soon as the Quad cast was complete, it was vorlauf and sparge the 2nd runnings into the kettle; yup, right on top of the Quad hops. I ran the hot liquor tank dry, collecting about 5.5bbl of wort in the kettle at ~1.035. This was boiled with not only the spent hops from the Quad but some East Kent Goldings pellets.

Fermented with Ringwood, it was a nice session beer for the pub.

I cannot tell you how happy I am that I'm not the only nutcase who'd try something like this! :ban:
 
Yowza! :eek: That sounds amazing. Thanks for the kind words.

I'm enjoying your website, by the way. Nicely done.

Chad
 
Brewsmith said:

Yep, I've been following along. I really liked your approach, and your experiment helped clarify my thinking on mine.

Interestingly, I also used Kent Goldings almost exclusively, though mine are Belgian grown (Ghent Goldings maybe?). My hop schedule for the big beer was 1.5oz at 60 minutes, 2oz at 20 minutes and another 2oz at 7 minutes for 55 IBUs and an IBU/OG ratio of .529. I'm a little worried that the flavor and aroma hops will age out and be gone by the time this beer hits its true potential. If that does happen I fear that the bittering backbone is a little short of what it needs to be. I suppose we'll find out about this time next year.

The Mild got 1oz of Goldings and .5oz Saaz (because I had an open package going stale in my fridge) for 60 minutes for 21 IBUs and an IBU/OG ratio of .535.

Take care,
Chad
 
Chad said:
The Mild got 1oz of Goldings and .5oz Saaz (because I had an open package going stale in my fridge)
Take care,
Chad

Chad, at the rate a few of us are going we are going to be deep into Belgians long before we have any suitably dilapidated hops. I have several small open bags of low alpha hops that I leave out on the counter a couple three days a week and I am still concerned... baking at 250 for three hours just isn't going to be the same.
 
If anyone is curious, I racked the Old Ale over to a secondary carboy today. Final gravity is 1.020 -- 11%ABV. Wow, that's a little over 79% attenuation and well into Barleywine territory. The taste was interesting, kind of like raisins, figs and toffee . . . soaked in lighter fluid. Yowza, the alcohol is very present. Luckily it didn't taste like fuesels just kind of harsh. I'm sure it will mellow out over time. I'm planning on three weeks in the secondary and then storing the bottles until about Christmas or so.

For those of you who've got more barleywine experience than I do, am I going to have a problem getting my bottles to carbonate?

Chad
 
The barleywine should be hitting its stride, but I haven't tasted it since October. It was still a little hot. I'll stick a bottle in the fridge and taste it tonight.

I'm discovering, though, that I don't really like barleywines. It could be that I under-hopped for long aging, resulting in a a syrupy overtone. But I've tasted a couple of commercial versions to have a basis for comparison and discovered that what I didn't like about my beer I also didn't like in the commercial beers. Might just not be my style. I'm going to submit it for a competition in the spring, so we'll see how more experienced judges feel about it.

Maybe DeathBrewer or Bobby M will chime in. I sent them a couple to try.

Chad
 
Thank you. I have made a barley wine a while ago that I liked but am almost out and thought that this would be a good way to go. I would agree with the issue of underhopping, that seemed to be our main problem, we were unable to get much hop taste at all with ours it was however a good beer (not to style but good anyway).

I wish you luck with the competition and thank you again for responding to such an old thread
 
Hmm, I'm definitely going to have to crack one open. I just heard from DeathBrewer. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him:
DeathBrewer said:
That beer was great. I didn't write notes on it, tho, and I tried it some time ago. I remember it having a light, pleasant fruitiness to it. I left it in the fridge for a while before i tried it, so it was nice and clear...pleasant carbonation. I don't remember a thing wrong with it.

Sorry I don't have more details. :eek:
Cool.
Chad
 
Please note that Beersmith doesn't have an option for parti-gyle brews, so I had to enter the Mild and Barleywines as separate recipes and finagle the efficiency numbers a bit to fit what actually happened. Here is the Beersmith recipe with notes:
Recipe: Old Stitch Stock Ale
Brewer: Chad Ward
Asst Brewer:
Style: English Barleywine
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 4.00 gal
Boil Size: 4.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.104 SG
Estimated Color: 20.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 44.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3.92 %
10.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 78.43 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 7.84 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 3.92 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (20 min) Hops 16.6 IBU
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (7 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
0.75 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.75 lb Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 5.88 %
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) [Starter 20Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 11.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 16.73 qt of water at 168.8 F 154.0 F

Notes:
------
The airlock has been chugging away since early 12/18 and now is bubbling at a furious pace on 12/19. The ambient temp. in the kitchen is 62-63* but the bucket is at 72* -- this is a seriously vigorous fermentation. The harvested 1028 seems to have worked out nicely. There was a good cup to cup and a half of solid yeast at the bottom of the glass starter jug from the 2 quarts I washed from the Nuthatch fermenter. I'm definitely doing that again.

Down to 1.020 when transfered to 2ndary on 01/08/08. Looks like primary fermentation is done. Very alcoholy and raisiny. Needs a lot more time to mellow out. Bottled 4/22 with an extra sachet of US05 to ensure carbonation. I'm guessing this will be ready about Christmas '08.
Note that it was in secondary for about three and a half months. When I bottled I added a packet of US05 to the bottling bucket, which seems to have done the job. The "starter" referenced in the recipe was a full cup and a half of thick slurry from a previous brew, which kicked things off nicely in the fermenter. What is listed as "Wheat dry extact" in the recipe was actually diastatic malt powder, which is normally used in baking. Don't use it. On the whole, though, the experiment was a great success. The Mild was one of the best beers I've brewed to date. If you've got a 10 gallon mash tun this will be a lot easier, but it certainly can be done with a 5 gallon tun.

I've got a bottle chilling in the fridge. I'll add tasting notes later. Bobby_M might be chiming in as well. Should be interesting.

chad
 
I am planning on partigyle pumpernickle rye imperial stout hopefully next weekend. Using a 10gal rubbermaid cooler with about 21 lbs grain producing 4 gal of 1.080 first runnings (to which I will add some molasses and sugar to bump up) (to fit in a 5gal ferment bucket) with second runnings producing about 5gal 1.045 after topping with some extra crystal, to which I I will add some raisins and some sugar and ferment with some oak cubes (not extended aging, just 3 week ferment). I figured out recipe based on 9 gal finished wort (531 gravity points), then worked out my splits.

Awesome article by Randy Mosher helped.
BT - Parti-Gyle Brewing

I will be breaking in my refractometer, and may mix first and second runnings a little depending on how it actually flows out. I also plan to try my first use of FWH.
 
Chad, thanks for sending a bottle. I let it warm up a bit last night and gave it a try.

Aroma: Malt, molasses, fruity, alcohol, and little to no hop aroma.

Appearance: A typical pour produced a 1/4" off white head that quickly dissipated to a surface haze. The color is dark brown with a garnet hue when held up to the light (porter-like in that regard). Clarity is excellent.

Flavor: Quite malt forward with a hot alcohol burn in the throat. The caramel flavors are deep in the molasses, raisin territory. Slight hint of scorching or maybe a small amount of black patent. Low hop bitterness and flavor.

Mouthfeel: Full.

Overall impression: Drinkable in small quantities but a little over the top in dark caramel. I do think this one will still get better with more aging to smooth out that alcohol. Was the fermentation temp controlled well? Take my impression with a grain of salt because I'm still learning about strong ales. It's a hard category to research without getting tanked on a regular basis.
 
Back
Top