Heat from power cord.

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tyfernandez

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Hi, Longtime lurker first time poster. Please be nice.

I recently upgraded my BK to include a 2000w 120v Rhemm LD heating element. I used a PVC coupler and JB weld to secure and protect the wiring of the element.
US0e4.jpg


My question is on the warmth or rather the Heat that the power cord is putting off. I used 12/3 SJOOW and 12 guage ring terminals to wire the element. Right at the point where the cord goes into the PVC structure the cord gets fairly hot. I was just testing it today after 20 mins of being on it was over 100 degrees. The rest of the cord feels pretty normal. Should I be concerned about this?

I'm wanting to add another element and some control to my kettle but I'm worried that I might burn my house down. Please help!
 
2000w at 120v is 16.6 amps. 12/3 is rated for 20 amps. I would think you'd be fine. But if it's getting that hot I'd change out the extension cord for 10/3. How long is the cord now?
 
I am no electric guru, but I think the law of common sense should apply here.

It was worth it to me to fork out a few more bucks and avoid pvc and plastic on areas that IMHO should get metal. Plastic and PVC degrade with heat over time. Will it burn your house down? Not sure but do let us know if it does.

I will let the guys with credentials take a shot at answering your real question
 
It is normal for the power cord gets a little warm. At least with a power cord extension. I have 2 electric heater elements at 1500w with a 110v outlet. I try to have it connected to GFI outlets. Or at least the GFI is at the box to the house. Less electrocution issues or if the controller burns out. I have mine thermostatically controlled by a light dimmer switch! I don't think my wired connection to the heater element gets warm though. I don't use plastic when connecting to the keg. Although the dimmer switch is plastic and did distort it. I may have to replace it soon.
 
Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy participating here.

You say:
I used 12/3 SJOOW and 12 guage ring terminals to wire the element.
And then:
Right at the point where the cord goes into the PVC structure the cord gets fairly hot.
I say that your crimp connection is not a solid current carrying bond with the wire. (You probably used a cheap HomeDepot crimp tool.) If it is posible to open the coupler to get at the element connections, just solder (radio solder & flux) the crimp connectors to the wires. With that you will be good to go.

Try it. You will see that I am correct.

P-J

Hi, Longtime lurker first time poster. Please be nice.

I recently upgraded my BK to include a 2000w 120v Rhemm LD heating element. I used a PVC coupler and JB weld to secure and protect the wiring of the element.

My question is on the warmth or rather the Heat that the power cord is putting off. I used 12/3 SJOOW and 12 guage ring terminals to wire the element. Right at the point where the cord goes into the PVC structure the cord gets fairly hot. I was just testing it today after 20 mins of being on it was over 100 degrees. The rest of the cord feels pretty normal. Should I be concerned about this?

I'm wanting to add another element and some control to my kettle but I'm worried that I might burn my house down. Please help!
 
It's only a 4 foot cord so i can't imagine the length is causing it.

Thanks PJ. I'll try that this weekend. I couldn't find my good crimper so I made use of some pliers. Didn't think it would matter. I'll let you know what the results are.

By any chance could this be causing poor performance in the BK? I'm not getting the temps I thought I would from this element.

Thanks again. I don't think I'd brew without this forum.
 
Poor performance? Absolutely without any doubt. The element is not delivering anywhere near the power that it is rated for.

It's only a 4 foot cord so i can't imagine the length is causing it.

Thanks PJ. I'll try that this weekend. I couldn't find my good crimper so I made use of some pliers. Didn't think it would matter. I'll let you know what the results are.

By any chance could this be causing poor performance in the BK? I'm not getting the temps I thought I would from this element.

Thanks again. I don't think I'd brew without this forum.
 
Just wanted to follow up with what it looked like underneath the coupler. I think PJ nailed it. The minute i unscrewed the coupler a horrible burning stench was released. I'm amazed I couldn't smell it prior to that.

Looks like one of the ring terminals fried.
TZ0kr.jpg


It also melted some of the element. I'm debating if i should scrap the whole element or not. Any suggestions?



I'm not even sure I could get the coupler off the element to rewire it as the JB weld is working quite correctly.

Thanks guys!
 
Just wanted to follow up with what it looked like underneath the coupler. I think PJ nailed it. The minute i unscrewed the coupler a horrible burning stench was released. I'm amazed I couldn't smell it prior to that.

Looks like one of the ring terminals fried.
It also melted some of the element. I'm debating if i should scrap the whole element or not. Any suggestions?

I'm not even sure I could get the coupler off the element to rewire it as the JB weld is working quite correctly.

Thanks guys!
That element needs to be replaces for sure. The burnt terminal is beyond repair or use.

I also strongly advise you to cut several inches off of the power cord to remove the part that is probably heat damaged as well.

Bottom line, I'm amazed with the amount of damage that happened. This is one of the reasons that I always crimp and then solder all of my high current connections. I do that even if I use a Pro crimp tool.

Wishing you great success.

P-J
 
I don't have an element here to examine, but there certainly could be temperature specs for those screw connections. For example, 90*C, which means the wire and terminals connecting to them are supposed to be rated for 90*C or higher.

If you're using standard cordage like SJO, the typical stuff is rated 60*C.

Again, I don't know what the rating is on the element terminals but it might be worth checking to see if you really should be using some higher temp wires and high temp terminals at the element that are run out to a junction box at couple feet away where they splice to the lower temp rated wire.
 
I don't have an element here to examine, but there certainly could be temperature specs for those screw connections. For example, 90*C, which means the wire and terminals connecting to them are supposed to be rated for 90*C or higher.

If you're using standard cordage like SJO, the typical stuff is rated 60*C.

Again, I don't know what the rating is on the element terminals but it might be worth checking to see if you really should be using some higher temp wires and high temp terminals at the element that are run out to a junction box at couple feet away where they splice to the lower temp rated wire.
Good points - However it has nothing to do with the problem that was experienced. What happened was a crimp connection between the wire end and the terminal lug failed - big time. That is IT. Nothing else happened.
...
 
I agree. A poor connection caused localized heating, I^2R and all that sort of thing. I was thinking of the repair/rewiring modifications.
 
Well:
He used #12 wire to power a 2000W 120V element.
The current draw is 16.67A.
#12 wire is more than capable for handling that current flow.

Rewiring/repair/modifications? No problem. It was a really bad crimp after all. Nothing else!
 
Yeah, I understand what caused the failure. A poor/high resistance connection and ~15A of current. If there was a perfect connection of 0 ohms there would be no heating and burning of that joint because there would be zero for the R in I^2R, thus zero watts of heat in the connection. For sake of discussion let's say the bad connection resistance is 1 ohms, now instead of zero watts of heat at that point there would be 225W of localized heating. So, yeah, I get that.

The additional info on the wiring and terminal temp ratings were just that, additional info. As long as you're going have to redo it might as well redo it using the proper materials...if they aren't, but that's just me. That temp rating stuff is irrespective of (or perhaps better to say in addition to) using the proper gauge of wire for the load.
 
...
The additional info on the wiring and terminal temp ratings were just that, additional info. As long as you're going have to redo it might as well redo it using the proper materials...if they aren't, but that's just me. That temp rating stuff is irrespective of (or perhaps better to say in addition to) using the proper gauge of wire for the load.
You most certainly entitled to your opinion.

Me? I think you are reaching for..
if they aren't

Nevermind... I'm done...
 
P-J,
For those of us that have never soldered a crimped connection, can you offer a few tips / techniques? I've crimped my share of connectors and I've soldered a few connections, but never both. In my mind I'm at a chicken / egg crossroad.
-Kevin
 
Crimp first, solder second.

Be sure you're using rosin core solder. For terminals like that a soldering gun works better than a pencil iron unless it's a good-sized iron.

The parts need to be pretty clean for the solder to flow, even though the rosin core flux helps that.

Key is to heat the iron/gun, put a small dab of solder on the tip then put that on the joint to be soldered. That tiny blob helps the heat conduct much better into the parts. Then, after a second or two, touch the solder to the joint (where the crimp sleeve and the wire meet) and it should melt and flow into the joint. Pull away the solder after sufficient amount had gone into the joint (doesn't take too much) but continue to heat for just a little longer. You don't want to add so much solder that it wicks way up the wire and makes it stiff past the crimp fitting. When you pull away the iron/gun, don't disturb the joint until the solder had cooled sufficiently to solidify otherwise you can get a grainy, poor joint.
 
This is how I do it...

Crimp the ring terminal on normally, but smear a little plumbing paste flux on the wire and ring terminal first, and make sure that both parts are CLEAN and that means SHINY copper...I don't know what you use to crimp, but I use a 1/8"" punch on the center of the terminal's collar and punch the *&% out of it. This really locks the terminal on. In the past I used to use a bench vise and smash it good, but I think the punch method locks it on better.

Forget irons. I fire up a bernz-o-matic torch and set it on my workbench. I hold the cord in my left hand, and the solder in my right. The torch just sits there. It doesn't hurt to put a dab of flux on the joint. Then I put the tip of the ring terminal in the torch. NOT the joint. The heat will conduct from the ring down to the joint. If you directly heat the joint there is a higher risk that you will oxidize the surface and then the solder won't flow, or you will melt the insulation.

With the tip of the ring terminal in the flame, every 3-5 seconds I press the solder against the joint to see if it's hot enough to melt the solder yet. As soon as it is, I soak it with solder and take the terminal out of the torch flame.
 
P-J,
For those of us that have never soldered a crimped connection, can you offer a few tips / techniques? I've crimped my share of connectors and I've soldered a few connections, but never both. In my mind I'm at a chicken / egg crossroad.
-Kevin
Kevin,

Just as a note. I've seen and been involved in a few rigs over the years where that particular problem has jumped out. The problem really stems from the quality of the crimp tool. A good quality crimper is very expensive and not commonly available. Most buy a common crimper (Lowe/HomeDepot) that does not provide a proper bond between the wire and the crimp on terminal for a high current application. (Note: High Current Application.)

The easiest solution is to place a short length of shrink tube on the wire, place the connector on the wire end and crimp it. Then remove the plastic sleeve from the connector and solder the wire to the connector. Slide the shrink tube in place and shrink it.

Now your connection is sound. No problem..

I hope this makes sense.
 
Be sure the flux you use isn't corrosive. Plumbing flux often is. Rosin core solder is for electrical work.
 
A good quality crimper is very expensive and not commonly available.


This is the crimper I have, and is along the type P-J refers to. Sometimes called a full cycle or ratcheting crimper.

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/405/CRIMPING-TOOL/

With this type of tool you really don't need to solder, but it usually doesn't hurt anything unless you use too much solder and it wicks up the wire, and the application is high vibration.
 
Thanks, team! As I suspected, everyone has their own technique. I'll snag some excess wire and connectors and run a few tests using the methods described above until I get it down pat. I've never had problems on my low draw applications in the past, but if I'm going through the effort of building a system, may as well do it right and double-tap them all.
-Kevin
 
dammit now i have to take mine apart and solder it cause I defiantly used a cheap crimping tool! Thanks all for the safety heads up!
 
A visual inspection should tell you if there is any concern about the connection integrity. If it doesn't look like it's been hot (discoloration) or melted/burnt then there isn't really anything that needs fixing, other than maybe peace of mind.
 
well I am paranoid about safety and to be honest it is not that big of an issue so I might as well find 10 min of my day to just go ahead and do it. I guess you could say "be proactive". That way if for some crazy reason it does catch fire or anything serious I dont have to look back and be like should have soldered it.
 
I wish I was still in the fleet working on helicopters, we had the cream of the crop wiring tools. I probably could have done all my connectors with canon plugs and stuff. That would be sweet!!!
 
Yeah, they're nice but spendy. Just ordered dozen small ones for some instrumentation connections. They're like $25-30 each by the time you get all the tidbits you need to make a complete connector, that's just one half.

On a per-contact basis they weren't as expensive though as the Fischer NIM-CAMAC connectors I bought to make a pair of stereo cables for a certain power amp I have.
 
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