North Coast Old Stock Ale Clone - Help

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Mitch529

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Location
St. Petersburg, FL
Just wondering if anyone has tried this recipe and/or if anyone can comment on how close it is to the original.

Had a pack of these with some friends and they are begging me to brew it! I'm still a newb at 5 batches so I am always leery of these recipes I cannot find any reviews on.

I also don't get the notes, "To get the rich
carmely flavor you need to boil your first gallon of wort very hard for
30 to 45 min." I am doing full boils so does that mean I need to just boil the whole batch hard or is he referring to a partial boil?

TIA
-Mitch

Code:
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Old Stock Ale Clone (Extract)
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General
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Category: Strong Ale
Subcategory: Old Ale
Recipe Type: Extract
Batch Size: 5 gal.
Volume Boiled: 6 gal.
Mash Efficiency: 72 %
Total Grain/Extract: 13.00 lbs.
Total Hops: 3.0 oz.
Calories (12 fl. oz.): 460.6
Cost to Brew: $49.50 (USD)
Cost per Bottle (12 fl. oz.): $0.93 (USD)

Ingredients
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5 lbs. Dry Amber Extract
4 lbs. Dry Light Extract
4 lbs. Dry Dark Extract
1.5 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 60 minutes.
1.5 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 10 minutes.
Yeast: White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Notes
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BrewCrAzY Clone Recipe of one of my favorite big beers. To get the rich
carmely flavor you need to boil your first gallon of wort very hard for
30 to 45 min. Ferment at 67F.

Vital Statistics
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Original Gravity: 1.114
Terminal Gravity: 1.026
Color: 18.24 SRM
Bitterness: 37.9 IBU
Alcohol (%volume): 11.7 %
 
My wife and I really like the North Coast Old Stock Ale. We have a stash of several bottles of every batch made. I can't comment on the combination of extracts used as it has been 24 years since I moved from extract to all grain and I don't remember extract formulations. I do have an all grain recipe that I made for Old Stock that I feel is pretty close.

Anyway, my opinion on your posted recipe is that it is way too high in OG. Depending on which vintage, the beer has been between 10 and 11%. I would not go too much above 1.108. Also, I feel that the hopping rates giving in your recipe are way too low. I don't know what formula is being used, but I use almost twice the Fuggles listed and am only at 34 ibu. I also do a 3 hour boil with it to get some darkening or the wort.

I would recommend a different yeast. WLP007 Dry English Ale is a good yeast to use for this beer.

My recipe is
91.7% Marris Otter
8.3% Carastan
OG 1.107
34 IBU

2.75oz Fuggle 60 min
1.25oz Fuggle 15 min
1.00oz EKG 0 min

Good Luck,
Tom
 
My wife and I really like the North Coast Old Stock Ale. We have a stash of several bottles of every batch made. I can't comment on the combination of extracts used as it has been 24 years since I moved from extract to all grain and I don't remember extract formulations. I do have an all grain recipe that I made for Old Stock that I feel is pretty close.

Anyway, my opinion on your posted recipe is that it is way too high in OG. Depending on which vintage, the beer has been between 10 and 11%. I would not go too much above 1.108. Also, I feel that the hopping rates giving in your recipe are way too low. I don't know what formula is being used, but I use almost twice the Fuggles listed and am only at 34 ibu. I also do a 3 hour boil with it to get some darkening or the wort.

I would recommend a different yeast. WLP007 Dry English Ale is a good yeast to use for this beer.

My recipe is
91.7% Marris Otter
8.3% Carastan
OG 1.107
34 IBU

2.75oz Fuggle 60 min
1.25oz Fuggle 15 min
1.00oz EKG 0 min

Good Luck,
Tom

Thank you very much for the info, I wonder if anyone can convert this to an extract recipe for me. I tried toying with beersmith but I have yet to figure that program out to the extent I need for converting a recipe.

Anyone have a conversion to extract for this?
 
My wife and I really like the North Coast Old Stock Ale. We have a stash of several bottles of every batch made. I can't comment on the combination of extracts used as it has been 24 years since I moved from extract to all grain and I don't remember extract formulations. I do have an all grain recipe that I made for Old Stock that I feel is pretty close.

Anyway, my opinion on your posted recipe is that it is way too high in OG. Depending on which vintage, the beer has been between 10 and 11%. I would not go too much above 1.108. Also, I feel that the hopping rates giving in your recipe are way too low. I don't know what formula is being used, but I use almost twice the Fuggles listed and am only at 34 ibu. I also do a 3 hour boil with it to get some darkening or the wort.

I would recommend a different yeast. WLP007 Dry English Ale is a good yeast to use for this beer.

My recipe is
91.7% Marris Otter
8.3% Carastan
OG 1.107
34 IBU

2.75oz Fuggle 60 min
1.25oz Fuggle 15 min
1.00oz EKG 0 min

Good Luck,
Tom

I'm also hooked on Old Stock. I like your use of Carastan. Should add a nice toffee/toasty flavor my original seemed to be missing. Here is what I used for my clone.

90.14% Marris
5.63% 40L
2.82% 120L
1.14% Special B
2.00oz. Fuggle 60min
2.00oz. EKG 15min
wlp001

This turned out great for me. Nice caramel, hint of raisin & plum up front. Finishes with a nice warmth and moderate bitterness on the backend. I will have to brew it again with a bit of carastan.
 
I'm also hooked on Old Stock. I like your use of Carastan. Should add a nice toffee/toasty flavor my original seemed to be missing. Here is what I used for my clone.

90.14% Marris
5.63% 40L
2.82% 120L
1.14% Special B
2.00oz. Fuggle 60min
2.00oz. EKG 15min
wlp001

This turned out great for me. Nice caramel, hint of raisin & plum up front. Finishes with a nice warmth and moderate bitterness on the backend. I will have to brew it again with a bit of carastan.

I did not use Crystal and Roasted malts as the web site for North Coast says that they use 100% Marris Otter for the OSA. I was not sure that I would be able to get the depth necessary with only 100% MO, so I added the Carastan and did a long boil (3 hours). The 120L and Special B that you added would be good for a normal 90 minute boil. Maybe you could sub out the 40L crystal for the Carastan.

We agree pretty close on the hopping :)
 
You are correct, their site doesn't state the use of a malt other then marris otter. I detect a lot of subtle flavors (caramel, toffee, raisin and plum). The flavors seem too complex to come from 100% marris otter and yeast alone. Would you agree?
 
Has anyone tried to caramelizing the Maris Otter? Remove your one gallon of wort and boil them down until the sugars being to caramelize. Then add your main wort. I know it is a lot more work but that should give you the toffee notes that are in the beer. And allow you to use only MO. Just a thought.
 
My recipe is
91.7% Marris Otter
8.3% Carastan
OG 1.107
34 IBU

2.75oz Fuggle 60 min
1.25oz Fuggle 15 min
1.00oz EKG 0 min

Good Luck,
Tom


This may be a dumb question, but since I am relatively new to all grain, and even then only use kits, I will ask. I assume the % are the amount of each grain in the final grain bill. Is it fair to assume that I need to enter this into a software package with the OG to determine the weight of each that I should pruchase? Is there an easier way? Thanks I would like to make this recipe but need help with the measurements.
 
Has anyone tried to caramelizing the Maris Otter? Remove your one gallon of wort and boil them down until the sugars being to caramelize. Then add your main wort. I know it is a lot more work but that should give you the toffee notes that are in the beer. And allow you to use only MO. Just a thought.

I think that, like a lot of barleywines or old ales, they probably do a long boil.

I also think some of that complexity that xiang mentions probably comes from fermenting a little on the warmer side.

I discovered North Coast when my wife and I drove through Fort Bragg on our honeymoon, on our way to San Francisco. Since we're both huge Thelonious Monk fans any brewery that dedicates a beer to him is pretty great in our books. Luckily it's delicious stuff.
 
A lot of classic english barleywines were solely comprised of Maris Otter with a long boil. A good example of something similar still being produced is Traquair House Ale, AFAIK it's a 3 hour boil of just nice high quality pale malt, I can't remember if it's MO or Golden Promise just this second.
 
I might have to try using only MO and see how it comes out. It will only be a a small scale 2.5 gallon test batch. But hey it is still 24 beers. I will but it on the brew list for next month.
 
Its been a while since this discussion was going. I came across the Tranquair House Ale clone in brew your own magazine's 250 recipes issue. It sounds like something I want to make. It uses 15lbs pale malt and .25lbs roasted barley for the grains. Has anyone brewed this one?
 
Hope this helps...

ForumRunner_20130129_203629.jpg
 
It's worthwhile to look at Skotrat's clone of Traquair to compare
http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/recipes/ale/scottish/recipes/10.html

The clone I have is very close to the skotrat. Higher weight of hops but at 4%. A bit lower mash temp. Same grain bill and yeast...the one you sent me seems a little more attention to detail. I'll be using that info! Thanks!

As far as the Old Stock...how could I not brew that also when my last name is Stock!? Es ist sehr gut!
 
Use a long boil if using only M.O. and ferment high. I let mine rise to 80 for the first 5 days then let cool naturally. Great complex flavor with a little heat on the back end. I brewed it a little over a year ago and it is still getting better. Patience is the key with this beer. Do not expect to get flavors close to the real Old Stock right away. Brew it and forget about it! (at least try)
 
I also don't get the notes, "To get the rich
carmely flavor you need to boil your first gallon of wort very hard for
30 to 45 min." I am doing full boils so does that mean I need to just boil the whole batch hard or is he referring to a partial boil?

This refers to an AG process where you take the first runnings from the mash (steep) which are high in sugar, and boil about a gallon down to a quart or so, which produces mailard reactions (and maybe even caramelization?). This gives a more complex profile.

Maybe you could do this with extract by using all pale extract from a British brand (Marris Otter) put 1/3-1/2 or so into a gallon and boil that down to a few cups and then use the rest in your full boil. You can steep a little character malt (carastan) and/or do a long boil as well. I've never done this, but it seems like it would work.
 
This isn't a clone attempt, but I was inspired by OSA. This is 100% Maris Otter after a 3.5 boil. Early tastes have lots of toffee and caramelly flavor.

If you're looking for extract, Northern Brewer makes a 100% MO extract. Not sure how it behaves in big beers, though.

image-3195449155.jpg
 
I like the simplicity of this kind of ale. Good way yo play with boil times and amount of grain used to see how it changes the beer.
 
While looking for an Old Stock clone I stumbled across this Old Thread I have a question about the extended boil. Am I correct to assume that I would increase boil volume to compensate for the 3+ hour boil?
 
Oh yes, you will need to figure out what your evaporation rate is ad collect enough wort to compensate for the loss. It would be a shame to go to that much trouble and end up with 2 or 3 gallons or wort instead of 5 or 6.

As for the discussion on using a single base malt - my last barleywine had just high quality Marris Otter as the malt with a 2 hour boil. I was amazed at the malt complexity of the finished beer. I don't think I will brew a barleywine any differently ever again.
 
Here’s what I’m considering:

5.5g
21lb Marris Otter
2oz Fuggles 60min
1.5oz EKG 15min
Mash at 154
Reduce 1g first runnings to 1qt
Boil 3 hours

Thoughts?
 
For a big beer, I’d mash way low and for a long time. When I did mine, I mashed at 148 or so, and once it was in the cooler, I went to the diner for breakfast. I think I mashed for at least two hours. Still got a rich full and complex beer.

If you’re going to age this for a while, those late EKG hops will fade away. I’d probably skip them.

If you’re doing a 3 hr boil, the kettle caramelization might not be necessary.
 
If you’re doing a 3 hr boil, the kettle caramelization might not be necessary.

Depends on what the final product is intended to be. For a Barleywine I would not do the first wort reduction. For an Old Ale I would.

I agree with a lower temperature longer mash point.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. It’s intended to be an old ale. I’ll plan to lower the temp and mash longer. I think I’ll stick with the FW reduction as well as extended boil unless that’s a bonehead plan to do both?
 
Boiling the FW is the short cut for doing long boil. I would not do both. It may end up too caramelly, if that is a thing.
 
So if I do a reduction of say 1 gallon of first runnings to about a pint, how do I go about accounting for the lost boil volume so that I still hit my normal 6 gallon post boil volume? Boil a larger volume, top off after boil, or don’t worry about it?
 
For a big beer, I’d mash way low and for a long time. When I did mine, I mashed at 148 or so, and once it was in the cooler, I went to the diner for breakfast. I think I mashed for at least two hours. Still got a rich full and complex beer.

If you’re going to age this for a while, those late EKG hops will fade away. I’d probably skip them.

If you’re doing a 3 hr boil, the kettle caramelization might not be necessary.
Where would you recommend making up for the late EKG IBUs if I skip the late addition?
 
So after further research and communication with North Coast I have come to a final recipe that doesn’t include an extended boil or first runnings reduction. I knew fuggles for bittering and EKG for aroma and that IBU is around 27-33. I’m wondering how to decide how much of the IBUs come from bittering and how much come from aroma? As my recipe currently stands I have 24.6 IBUs from 60 min fuggle addition and 2.9 IBUs from 5 min EKG addition. Looking for feedback/advice.
Cheers
 
Will be brewing this version next week
5.5g
OG 1.084
IBU 32
SRM 18

15lb Maris Otter
8oz caramel 40
8oz caramel 80
8oz caramel 120
4oz Special B
1lb table sugar
2oz Fuggles (60 min)
1oz EKG (5 min)
WLP001 slurry

Mash @ 150° for 90min
90 min boil
 
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