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garrettgordon14

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Hey everybody, I'm new to this site, although I brewed beer a few times the last few years. Anyway I have started Crossfit and they emphasize living the "Paleo Lifestyle." It has gained a lot of popularity the last few years especially in the Crossfit subgroup. Anyway, the deal behind it is to basically eat only what our great ancestors ate; so, meat, fruits/veggies, roots, nuts etc.. There is no dairy, no grains, no legumes and no processed foods. I know things like mead, some wines, and cider are considered Paleo because they don't use the above ingredients but in order for a beer to be a beer they really need grains. My quandry is to make a "beer" that doesn't use grains in the brewing process. So I could use things like pumpkin, nuts, squash, or sweet potatoes or any type of fruit in the brewing process but no grains. Can anybody help me out to create a killer recipe that will fly as Paleo? And I I'm not interested in making a cider or lambic or wine, I want a beer I can guzzle down with my friends and they won't know the difference. Help me out
 
Would yr ancestors eat hops? I guess u would have to brew with herbs for bittering...again...what herbs would they have typically eaten? I think u have no chance of creating a bear that your friends wouldn't know the difference.

I do have a suggestion...y not keep/brew a few grain beers for yr grain eating friends ;)
 
What about a honey beer?

Is quinoa or sorghum paleo? As I think they're of the grass variety? Oh and sweet potato.
 
Yes, the early cavemen of Europe loved their sweet potato and squash soups...

The only thing I can really see you making is a mead type drink using some herbs instead of hops. And also using natural fermentation as hunter gatherers wouldn't have had access to packet yeast. I have just made a simple mead using orange peal and rosemary. Since they didn't have pectolase, you would have to wait for it all to settle naturally too. Or just leave out the orange peal.
 
If you want to be paleo, and only eat things your ancestors could have made, that definitely precludes the use of any added enzymes, any commercially-raised yeast, any industrially-processed fruit juice, any pelletized hops, any chemical sanitizers, any glass, metal, or plastic fermentation vessels, or...well, I guess that's enough limitations to start with!

Basically what you're going to need to do is use a combination of raw honey and very ripe LOCAL, ORGANIC fruit for your fermentables. You'll want a good size ceramic cooking vessel, which will be your kettle and your fermenter. You'll boil water in the vessel directly to sanitize, along with generous helpings of some antimicrobial herbs (hops are fine, go with an old noble variety like Hallertau or Saaz, or something wild if you can find it) then let cool down to room temperature, and dump in several pounds of pressed fruit juice and/or honey. I recommend using bananas. Some sweet potato roasted over a flame (do NOT use an oven, caveman didn't have those) could be added, too--but squished up as best you can. Let it sit for about four or five days; add the pulp of the pressed fruit, skin included, if the fermentation doesn't start within a day or two. Boil a ladle to sanitize it, and ladle out your beer into your drinking gourds; it will be thick, sweet, and extremely nutritious. But it will not even remotely resemble the clear fizzy stuff that passes for beer these days.

Of course, if you're not really paleo, and are just "grain, dairy, and legume-free", then go ahead and brew like a regular brewer, and make a chestnut beer. Go here, and sub out corn sugar for cane sugar, date sugar, honey, or beet sugar. Cheers!
 
Garrettgordon14, I am a crossiftter, and I eat paleo as well. The short answer is no, I haven't seen anything on this board that is truly paleo, mostly because alcohol itself isn't paleo, and neither are the vast majority of ingredients. The closest you'll come to it is a combination of chestnuts and corn sugar. Check out this recipe: http://www.chestnuttrails.com/pages/chestnut-beer (without the corn sugar, you'd get very little fermentable out of the chestnuts, so it's necessary). I've made this, with some alterations, and I felt fine afterwards, and it tasted awesome.

Chestnuts are paleo, as are hops and some yeasts. Obviously, corn isn't paleo, and neither is sugar, but it's not going to have the nasty effect that other grains will since it's so refined. (Think white rice vs. brown rice) There's also the other additive ingredients, which by any definition wouldn't be paleo, but it's really just a small amount of enzymes in a 5 gallon batch, so not a big deal.

So, while no beer you make or buy will be paleo, and certainly not in "guzzling" proportions, you can minimize the harm with chestnuts and a very refined sugar as an alternate source of fermentables.

Also, learn to love apfelwein. It's easy, delicious, and as close to paleo as you're going to get with an alcoholic beverage.
 
While I generally consider paleo as being in the same class of pseudo-science fad diets as raw, blood type, and Zone, it's a big improvement over the standard American diet, and rather than rudely insult people who choose to follow it, I'd prefer to encourge civil discussion and debate. So GarageDweller, kindly take your rudeness back to the garage.
 
This is really ironic, today I got asked to contribute to a Detroit Paleo facebook group, not because I keep Paleo, which I really don't, but because I cook a lot of stuff that I guess would fit the lifestyle. And they're looking for people who can show people that cooking can be effortless. The person who asked be was a FB friend of a friend, who noticed that I've started to cure my own meats, cook a lot of wild game, and cook "gourmet" but effortless and quick. I'd never heard of Paleo til she approached me. I agree with igliashon that it's a lot like other faddish diets, BUT is still a lot better than most other ways people eat.

I have noticed in the last couple of days that a lot of Paleo people still drink alcohol (including the woman who hosts the PaleoDetroit group) and I get the impression that diy aesthetic of homebrewers does appeal to them.

I'll ask around and see if there's any paleo homebrewers around, and what they do.

But really, how do we know that paleothic people didn't drink fermented grain based beverages. Wild grains have existed long before they were cultivated, so how do the proponents of this diet know that they didn't drink fermented barley based beverages?
 
I guess that depends a lot on your idea of what "paleo" means.

I was just watching a Discovery documentary about how beer was the reason agriculture exists at all and was the primary source of water and nutrition for early, civilized man.

On a side note, I'd also love some easy, gourmet meat recipes!
 
My general sense is that while the Paleo movement has its heart in the right place--modern industrial food should be shunned, because our systems do not tolerate it well--I think they go too far in insisting that a grain-free, legume-free diet is necessary. The simple fact is that our ancestors have been eating grains and legumes for thousands of years, but in fermented forms much different than we eat them today. They certainly didn't just boil up the raw grains and eat them! Sprouting/germinating/malting grains and beans, and then letting wild yeasts and bacteria chow down on them (as happens in the concoction of tempeh, miso, chicha, chang, and "real" sourdough) has a powerful effect on making the grains digestible and assimilable. Beer-making is one of the oldest known ways of doing this, and traditional beers--I'm talking Egypt, here--were drunk unfiltered and quite young, teeming with yeast and other probiotic organisms. In Africa one can still find sour unfiltered beers like this (made with sorghum, no less!), and probably in other parts of the world as well. If humans had any trouble digesting these foods, they would not have eaten them, simply put. The fact that they did eat and drink these grain-based foods (for thousands of years, no less) is a potent argument in favor of maintaining them in one's diet. I would give the Paleo movement a lot more credence if they embraced these traditional fermentation methods, rather than just ditching grains and legumes all together. Of course, there's also the fact that our modern staple crops are genetically quite different from those of our ancestors, as well...I'd suggest looking into brewing with heritage or heirloom varieties of grains, if you're of a Paleo mind. Malted einkorn can actually be purchased; there was a recent thread here on the subject, in fact.
 
I went Primal Blueprint lifestyle, which has slight differences and allows for dairy, but decided right from the beginning that there will be some "cheat" items that I had to be realistic about or else I would never stick with it. Beer is one of the few things that I just ignore about not being allowed and I'm doing just fine. I love beer far too much to give up one of my few remaining vices. The reason I mention this is because it's something you may want to consider. Good luck with sticking with it. Once carb flu ended I was feeling worlds better. Loving it.
 
How you know you've gone off the deep end with a diet: You start to consider cutting beer (as we know it) entirely!

This Paleo thing seems like it's just Atkins repackaged for 2012. I can see the no dairy, we (most of us) really aren't equipped to process it after infancy. But to cut carbs... not good. Besides, Paleo man didn't eat grains and legumes because they hadn't learned to cultivate crops yet.

No one seems to consider that the average Paleo man would be lucky to see 35... anyone can eat anything for the short term....but when you consider modern medicine, longevity, and access to food it doesn't add up. Eating clean food, yeah that makes sense, but limiting yourself to food sources available to primitive man, one who didn't live very long, and somehow use that as evidence of its efficacy......

Do whatever you believe, but for god's sake man, don't cut the beer :D
 
In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I adhere to Dr. Fuhrman's "Eat to Live"/"Nutritarian" diet. No added oil, no added salt, no added sugar to anything I eat (90% of the time, anyway), and roughly a pound of green veggies per day (on average). I limit grains, because I eat to maximize micronutrients per calorie, and grains just aren't all that nutritious. Unlike Paleo, I eat minimal meat, and plenty of beans; and every aspect of my diet comes from peer-reviewed scientific studies (or at the very least is supported by them). But y'know, I still drink plenty of beer, because having a diet as healthy as mine means I don't have to worry about a beer belly, and my risk of various chronic diseases is significantly lowered, meaning I can expect to enjoy my homebrew to a very ripe old age. I see my diet as counter-balancing my vices, basically.
 
I dont really know what Paleo is but if your talking about only eating what ancients ate then technically speaking beer is about as ancient as it gets...certainly different back then but still beer. I know a lot of the problems with modern grains has to do with the genetically modified everything these days so maybe finding grains that fit the whole organic/non GMO description then maybe your ok. Otherwise if chestnuts are ok then definitely check out the recipe that was previously posted. I brewed that, granted messed up a bit somewhere along the line and it came out at 12.5% but after aging it 6 months or so it really became good.

Good luck
 
Not to hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on the merits of paleo eating, but a few points in defense of my way of eating for about 3 years, and something that has really changed my life for the better:

- The paleo diet/primal blueprint is a way of eating, not a religion. While our evolution as humans provides a good framework to start the conversation, we don't eat things just because cavemen had them, and we don't shun them simply because cavemen didn't have them. We're not trying to reenact paleolithic lifestyle; we're trying to use observations about paleolithic peoples to ask questions about modern diet and optimize it. Paleolithic peoples were largely devoid of any of the "diseases of affluence" which plague us today. We use that observation as a starting point to ask why. All of it is backed up by science, not a desire to live like a cave man.
- igliashon, I agree that traditional preparation of grains is 1000% better than consuming the standard american diet, but those grains and legumes (even in their traditionally prepared state) still have in impact on gut health. That's obviously a huge discussion on its own, but that's why we don't eat them. Gluten is the largest offender, so I try to focus on that, rather than the other grains we use in gluten free brewing, since I'm not drinking gluten free brew every night.
- Beer is ancient, and people have been consuming it for thousands of years (I think mead is probably older), but as I said above, the idea isn't historical reenactment. Beer still isn't good for you, no matter how delicious it is.
- The life expectancy of paleolithic peoples may not be as short as you think, and although it's certainly shorter than it is today, a small cut that got infected could easily have killed them, dragging their average life expectancy lower. Their diet wasn't the problem.
- I've been eating this way for about 3 years (with frequent "cheats"; I still drink alcohol, and can't resist a good batch of mac & cheese, although I definitely feel it afterward), and I've seen a dramatic turnaround in all bloodwork and markers of health and disease. Granted that's completely anecdotal, but I've also gone off of it for a few months, and saw both my waistline and heart disease markers increase.

There're smarter folks than me that can answer many of the questions you guys raised, but if you want to learn more, including the studies that back it up, I would check out www.marksdailyapple.com , www.robbwolf.com , and www.thepaleodiet.com . I would suggest reading up on those studies before chalking it up to a fad.
 
Igliashon, just curious: do you exclude all oils, or just the heavily oxidized industrial seed oils loaded with O6? Is coconut oil or olive oil out, too?
 
Not to hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on the merits of paleo eating, but a few points in defense of my way of eating for about 3 years, and something that has really changed my life for the better:

- The paleo diet/primal blueprint is a way of eating, not a religion. While our evolution as humans provides a good framework to start the conversation, we don't eat things just because cavemen had them, and we don't shun them simply because cavemen didn't have them. We're not trying to reenact paleolithic lifestyle; we're trying to use observations about paleolithic peoples to ask questions about modern diet and optimize it. Paleolithic peoples were largely devoid of any of the "diseases of affluence" which plague us today. We use that observation as a starting point to ask why. All of it is backed up by science, not a desire to live like a cave man.
- igliashon, I agree that traditional preparation of grains is 1000% better than consuming the standard american diet, but those grains and legumes (even in their traditionally prepared state) still have in impact on gut health. That's obviously a huge discussion on its own, but that's why we don't eat them. Gluten is the largest offender, so I try to focus on that, rather than the other grains we use in gluten free brewing, since I'm not drinking gluten free brew every night.
- Beer is ancient, and people have been consuming it for thousands of years (I think mead is probably older), but as I said above, the idea isn't historical reenactment. Beer still isn't good for you, no matter how delicious it is.
- The life expectancy of paleolithic peoples may not be as short as you think, and although it's certainly shorter than it is today, a small cut that got infected could easily have killed them, dragging their average life expectancy lower. Their diet wasn't the problem.
- I've been eating this way for about 3 years (with frequent "cheats"; I still drink alcohol, and can't resist a good batch of mac & cheese, although I definitely feel it afterward), and I've seen a dramatic turnaround in all bloodwork and markers of health and disease. Granted that's completely anecdotal, but I've also gone off of it for a few months, and saw both my waistline and heart disease markers increase.

There're smarter folks than me that can answer many of the questions you guys raised, but if you want to learn more, including the studies that back it up, I would check out www.marksdailyapple.com , www.robbwolf.com , and www.thepaleodiet.com . I would suggest reading up on those studies before chalking it up to a fad.

Not that I concede your point, but thank you for reminding me to do a little research before I open my mouth ;) I got a little carried away there.
 
Here is a simple answer:
Step 1, Brew a gluten free beer
Step 2, Call it good enough

Pretty sick of Cross-Fit and Paleo diet. It's the new fitness "religion". I have several friends that are into it (instructors) it is their main topic of conversation. Last year they were vegetarians. :mug:
 
Igliashon, just curious: do you exclude all oils, or just the heavily oxidized industrial seed oils loaded with O6? Is coconut oil or olive oil out, too?

All oils. No exceptions. No olive, no coconut, no butter or lard. My fats come directly from whole plant and animal foods, like nuts, seeds, eggs, and grains. I eat around 2-4 oz of nuts and seeds a day. I've lost all of my excess weight, even if I drink two or three big beers a day, and I never feel hungry, as long as I eat when I'm supposed to.

As far as grains and gut-health, I'm not aware of any peer-reviewed literature studying the effects of traditionally-fermented grain preparations on gut health, i.e. comparing them to grain-free diets and modern (unfermented, industrially-processed) grain-based diets. If you know of any research, I'd love to see it, but if not, I'd suggest against making claims about whether such a traditional grain-based diet is good or bad for gut health. For all I know, it may not be much better, but at least theoretically there seems to be reason to suspect it should be fine.

Of course, when it comes to health and nutrition, it's easy to make inferences, but it's hard to actually prove anything; this is why I favor the "Eat to Live" diet--everything is rigorously backed up by peer-reviewed studies. The main difference between ETL and Paleo, so far as I can tell, is in the quantity of meat recommended (very low in ETL, pretty high in Paleo), and the attitude toward legumes (recommended in ETL, rejected in Paleo). ETL has a lot of scientific studies on its side; I'd recommend checking it out if you haven't.
 
Hmm ... If you do come up with a Paleo-acceptable and tasty beer, they'll probably name a WOD after you.

"Oh, s**t. We're doing Igliashon today."
 
As far as grains and gut-health, I'm not aware of any peer-reviewed literature studying the effects of traditionally-fermented grain preparations on gut health, i.e. comparing them to grain-free diets and modern (unfermented, industrially-processed) grain-based diets. If you know of any research, I'd love to see it, but if not, I'd suggest against making claims about whether such a traditional grain-based diet is good or bad for gut health. For all I know, it may not be much better, but at least theoretically there seems to be reason to suspect it should be fine.

Here's a good rundown of my view on traditionally prepared grains/legumes: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soaked-sprouted-fermented-grains/#axzz1l4vByg73 , with some links to studies.

I guess I wouldn't say they're definitely bad. I don't eat them because (a) they might impact gut health, (b) it's a PITA to prepare them the traditional way, and (c) their nutrient density pales in comparison to meat and vegetables, so I don't really see the need. I see some potential downside with the lectins that aren't eliminated through traditional preparation, and really no upside.

Also, as you mentioned, the modern grains are different than grains of even 50 years ago, so I don't have any faith that the "bad" is gone through traditional preparation of modern grains.

In any event, paleo and ETL both seem like a fairly decent way to reduce 99% of the garbage from your diet, and we're really talking about fine-tuning that other 1%.
 
Great article, thanks! I'll add it to my library. Only wish it addressed legumes in more depth, as that's one big area of contention between Paleo and ETL. The take-away point about grains being not worth the trouble to render into a more digestible form is a good one; even conceding that yeah, our ancestors survived on grains for a long time and were able to digest them just fine, it still makes little sense to eat them today, when there are more nutrient-dense sources of calories so readily available.
 
+1 for brewing a gluten free beer. Do an all grain brew to be really primal and avoid weird ingredients. The malting and fermentation is going to take care of the phytic acid, lectins, and all of the other anti-nutrients that make grains a harmful food. Making grains the bulk of a diet, especially when they aren't prepared right is harmful but the occasional consumption of properly treating GF grains is not bad. There are more nutrient dense foods for sure, but making your diet as nutrient dense as possible doesn't need to be so regimented. Eat primarily paleo and occasionally eat some properly prepared gluten free grains or gf beer whenever you're craving them.
 
Just wanted to chime in regarding the Paleo eating lifestyle. Paleo is definitely not the new fitness "religion". People who speak negatively of it have most likely never stuck to it long enough to reap the benefits from it.

I lost about 35 LB in 7 months without exercising by eating Paleo. I stumbled a bit last year and got off of it and gained back about 15 LB in less than a year. My once chronic headaches disappeared after a month or so during that 7 month period, but they returned after I got off Paleo. I started back again on Jan. 2nd of this year, and I've dropped 7 LB without exercising. I feel much better already. My 57 year old father-in-law (who recently had a quadruple bypass) started eating Paleo several months ago. He doesn't have to take as many pills now, because his blood pressure and cholesterol are now awesome, and he's dropped a lot of weight. My 2 year old son had RSV when he was just a few months old. He had respiratory problems and congestion ever since until a couple months after switching to Paleo eating. Since we switched to Paleo, we've put his nebulizer away in the closet.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but it's something that I'm pretty passionate about. I realize that there are fad diets out there, but Paleo is not a diet, it's a lifestyle; a lifestyle that works for me and my family.

I still brew and drink regular beer, though. :D It's my cheat. I'll probably try brewing a gluten free beer sometime this year. Zymurgy (Vol 35, No. 3 - May/June 2012) contains several tasty sounding gluten free recipes.
 
To return to the question of making a paleo beer, if you don't mind using an enzyme formula, I'd recommend using sweet potato and bananas (or plantains) as a malt base. I've used them both in beers alongside gluten-free grains and had good results; you can even roast them in the oven for some deeper color and roasty flavors. Both will convert quite readily if you roast/bake them first; some sources suggest they can actually convert themselves if mashed properly (though I've had no luck with this). The addition of dates and/or chestnuts could be helpful for flavors as well. I could put together an experimental recipe using these ingredients if anyone is interested.
 
mlstarbuck, great to hear of your success with paleo. I'm always intrigued to hear of the variety of chronic problems that clear up after switching to a paleo diet.

igliashon, have you ever used dates in a brew before? If so, I'm curious how that turned out.
 
I haven't used raw dates, but I've used date sugar (or maybe it was palm sugar?) to good effect. Dates have a pretty neutral sweet taste when raw, but I'll bet they could be roasted and caramelized for good effect. Maybe once I finish brewing my AHA NHC beers I'll take a stab at something paleo, just for giggles.
 
I'm on my third batch of paleo friendly beer.

Ingredients for 5 gal batch

1 lb dark Roasted buckwheat (is actually a fruit seed that is related to rhubarb and sorrel making it a suitable substitute for grains)
2 lbs of coconut palm sugar (takes a lot longer to ferment)
4 lbs organic non-gmo beet sugar
small bottle of molasses
1 pack extra dark candi syrup (made with dates)

Yeast - london ale (why - that's what I had in the fridge

Hops of choice

First batch I steeped 2 lbs large flake roasted coconut for flavor. Came out pretty good.
 
Just in case someone reads this late like I have, beer throughout history hasn't always been made by barley and wheat duh. Some beers were in fact made with rice which is more fermentable than barley, try that as a base and add proteins and something to add body. rice beer will work but it will pick up, harshly, all flavors added like hops which will taste like you put one directly in your mouth.
 
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