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eric_pwb

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I have been kit brewing for about 4 years now, and I have decided to make the jump to all grain. I have been lurking around here for about a year reading up on all grain brewing, and have just recently decided to start looking into equipment.

I have decided to go with a cooler based mash tun and an electric brew kettle, as I consider propane to be a PITA for my situation. I am well versed in the field of combining electricity and water, as I build in-ground swimming pools and install spas for a living.

My question is, is there any reason that I should consider converting an actual kettle or stock pot, over converting a 1/2bbl keg, as I know that I can get a legally obtained keg decommissioned keg on the cheap, and have it cut and welded for a couple of cases of homebrew.

I intend on doing only 5 gallon batches, and there will likely be some big beers brewed with this equipment. Also I intend to be able to run on only 115V, likely 2 or 3 15A circuits, as I really don't think the landlord would like me to re-wire my apartment.

Thanks,
Eric
 
If you absolutely know you will never do more than 5 gallon batches I'd skip the keggle. They are heavy, cumbersome and harder to clean than a regular kettle. I curse every time I have to clean those beasts.

Pool spa heater, I remember the one I had for my pool, that would be an awesome set up for a HLT. That thing was a monster heater. I guess it wouldn't fly in an apartment however.
 
Eric,

Some questions for you. Do you have a washer/dryer setup in your apartment? Do you have an electric stove in your apartment? (Re: the stove - I'm referring to a free standing stove, not a cook top and a wall oven.) If you have either of these available you can easily go electric.

Let us know.
 
+1 for finding a 240v circuit in the apartment. It allows you to be far more flexible in your design.

A 15 amp circuit limits you to 1500 watt elements, and even with just 5 gallon batches, that's going to be pretty slow with less than 2 or 3. Though I've never used a heat stick, I would imagine that 3 of them in a 10 gallon pot would be a pain to keep out of your way. You could, however, hard mount 2 or 3 in a single pot to get around that.

If you do have a 240v 30 amp circuit available you can go as high as 6000 watts at one time - This will shorten your brew day quite a bit.

If you do want to build for just 5 gallons, I would recommend a regular pot as 15 gallon kegs are going to have quite a bit of waste due to the shape of the bottom of the kettle and trub. It's more negligible in a 10 gallon batch.
 
Depending on how you want to do the drain a keggle can be very nice. My plan for the next brewery is a bottom drain using the Tri-Clamp valve on the top of the keg, will be cutting the bottom out flush with the sides.
 
Thanks for the input everyone.

I had previously considered 240v, as I do have an electric range on a 40A breaker(not GFCI), but the thought of ultimate mobility somehow ended up in my mind where I could travel and use to separate 15A circuits to do the job. However after considering the advice from here I will likely go with 240v from my range plug, as I want to build everything to have the ability to do 10 gallon batches when and if the mood strikes. In which case it seems that the keg is a pretty cost effective way to start.

Thanks again,

Eric
 
They were originally used in Xerox Copiers, these are leftovers from old copiers. I have a friend who repairs copiers for a living and he says they are quality. I am building my system now, so I have not tested the cable yet, but I know other members have used them.
 
My apologies for reviving this old thread...but I've been contemplating a simple transition from propane to electric and thought the cable discussed above seemed like a simple solution.

I know very, very little about electricity (aside from the fact that it's incredibly dangerous)...so am I correct in assuming that this cable can be plugged into a standard 240v 30A dryer outlet and run directly into a 3500 watt element yielding a simple, safe, yet powerful e-keggle?

Someone tell me if I'm mistaken. I'm simply trying to educate myself before diving into this venture. Thanks in advance!
 
I know very, very little about electricity (aside from the fact that it's incredibly dangerous)...so am I correct in assuming that this cable can be plugged into a standard 240v 30A dryer outlet and run directly into a 3500 watt element yielding a simple, safe, yet powerful e-keggle?

Essentially that's the idea. You should be able to go with a bigger element that 3500w if you have 30A available, you might want to go with 4000 or 5500.
 
I wouldn't just plug the element in - You should have some form of control. A switch at the least, and PWM or PID of some sort at best.

The issue is that (depending on your batch size) even 3500 watts could keep you constantly chasing boilovers. With a switch you can turn it on and off to let the boil fall, and with PWM or a PID you can dial in just the right amount of power.

5500 watts is great for getting to a boil quickly. But it's way too much to hold the boil once you get there. Think of it like having your burner on full blast after a 5 gallon batch gets to boiling ;)

The other thing you need to do is have GFCI protection. If that 30 amp circuit isn't used for anything else (Like a dryer) you can just replace the breaker in the panel with a GFCI. If it is used for other non-GFCI friendly appliances, you'll want to get a "Spa panel" with whips. This way you can plug the spa panel into the 30a recp. and plug the element control into the spa panel. 240 volts * 30 Amps + 13 gallons of water is a bad idea without adequate protection...
 
The other thing you need to do is have GFCI protection.
The eBay cord linked to in my prior post would provide the appropriate GFCI protection, right?? And a spa panel would provide that protection if I decided to go that route? I think I'd choose one of those two options rather than a GFCI breaker so I can keep the setup fairly mobile.

And you mention PWM and PID for "dialing in" the appropriate wattage...this would definitely be ideal...especially since it would allow me to use a more powerful element. I'll need to spend some more time on the boards trying to tack down just how these controller work instead of simply dismissing them from my list of potential options due to their current intimidation factor. Are there any elementary, start-from-scratch sort of tutorials that explain how these work and how they're assembled? Every mention of them that I've seen requires a good deal of electrical knowhow to comprehend. Thanks for the great info thus far!
 
There are some great threads about using a PID for temperature control. I don't know of a tutorial, though.

Essentially, you would only need 3 components:
A PID - Get one that runs on 240 volts so you can power it from the same feed as the element uses
(2) SSRs - These are what actually switch the current to the element.

You wouldn't need a temperature probe since you would use the PID only in manual 0-100% mode. You could add one, however, if you decided to use it for controlling a RIMS or HERMs.

Don't be too intimidated by some of the builds in here - They are far more complicated than they need to be. What you need is really just one little piece of something like Kal's build.
 
The eBay cord linked to in my prior post would provide the appropriate GFCI protection, right?? And a spa panel would provide that protection if I decided to go that route? I think I'd choose one of those two options rather than a GFCI breaker so I can keep the setup fairly mobile.

And you mention PWM and PID for "dialing in" the appropriate wattage...this would definitely be ideal...especially since it would allow me to use a more powerful element. I'll need to spend some more time on the boards trying to tack down just how these controller work instead of simply dismissing them from my list of potential options due to their current intimidation factor. Are there any elementary, start-from-scratch sort of tutorials that explain how these work and how they're assembled? Every mention of them that I've seen requires a good deal of electrical knowhow to comprehend. Thanks for the great info thus far!


Yes the cord has the built in GFCI which is why I bought it. Great deal and that thing is BEEFY. You need a 4 prong dryer outlet though, the newer style.

I followed Kal's build to help me build mine a couple years ago, has worked out great.
 
5500 watts is great for getting to a boil quickly. But it's way too much to hold the boil once you get there. Think of it like having your burner on full blast after a 5 gallon batch gets to boiling ;)

Interesting... some people I talk to say you need at least 4000w, others say its overkill. My keg is out for welding, and I am still debating doing 2 1500w or 2 2000w, but was worried that won't be enough for 5 gallon batches and the odd 10g.

The spa panels with whips are likely the best solution for gfci that I can think of... especially if you are like me and work for a company that sells spas;)
 
It depends on many factors, from how much power you have, how fast your BK bleeds BTU's, Altitude, and how long you're willing to wait.

You could boil 10 gallons with 2kw if you insulate the holy crap out of it and wait...

Once you get to boil, though, 5500 watts is a lot of power.

You point out another great option though - Use 2 2kw elements. Use both to get to boil, and cycle one on and off to control it. It could make it easier to hold a boil without having to build PID or PWM control. Look into the heat stick threads. There's a bunch of guys here using 2 2kw heat sticks for boiling.
 
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