Questions About Fining in the Secondary

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tryals15

tryals15

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Hello all,

I've been lurking around here for awhile, but just recently signed up.

I have a question about bottling a brew I have in primary. I have about 5.5 gallons of a big winter porter (should land around 9.2% ABV). My understanding is that I am going to leave it in primary for at least 2-3 weeks, and then rack to a secondary to bulk condition for 3-4 weeks.

I would like to have a refined looking beer. I had intended to use some irish moss, but I forgot to add it in the boil.


My question is in several parts.

1. Is there anything I can do (I've read some about gelatin as a fining agent) to clear the beer in the secondary?

2. Will using gelatin (or otherwise) effect the flavor/color of the beer?

3. My local brew shop guy suggested I repitch before bottling. Should I do that? And if I were to do that would it negate any efforts I make to clear the beer?

Whew. A lot of questions, I know. Thanks in advance for the help!
 
tryals15 said:
Hello all,

I've been lurking around here for awhile, but just recently signed up.

I have a question about bottling a brew I have in primary. I have about 5.5 gallons of a big winter porter (should land around 9.2% ABV). My understanding is that I am going to leave it in primary for at least 2-3 weeks, and then rack to a secondary to bulk condition for 3-4 weeks.

I would like to have a refined looking beer. I had intended to use some irish moss, but I forgot to add it in the boil.


My question is in several parts.

1. Is there anything I can do (I've read some about gelatin as a fining agent) to clear the beer in the secondary?

2. Will using gelatin (or otherwise) effect the flavor/color of the beer?

3. My local brew shop guy suggested I repitch before bottling. Should I do that? And if I were to do that would it negate any efforts I make to clear the beer?

Whew. A lot of questions, I know. Thanks in advance for the help!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the group...I personally wouldnt use any of that crap, but thats just me! The beer process (as you may know) is that beer goes through its primary fermentation process within 2 to 6 days, after that it starts to condition itself by cleaning up by products...so by week 3 you should have clear beer...now because you are brewing a porter and would like for the flavors to change with a little more aging, thats why you would bulk age....summary, your beer will be fine if you do 3 weeks primary and then bulk condition for 3 to 4 weeks.
 
Well thats a loaded question...if you accurately pitched the correct amount of yeast from the beginning then there is no point to re-pitch....however if you didnt pitch enough yeast, then yes adding more would finish the fermentation process and would allow the beer to start conditioning.
Since you are new, I would imagine you purchased an extract kit...in general they give you what you need, not more, not less....irish moss will give you clear beer, but so will conditioning beer...so leave your beer in the primary for 3 weeks and it will be clear...your worse case scenario is that your beer is cloudy, is that really worth adding a bunch of crap or re-pitching yeast out of a hunch? Leave your beer alone for 3 weeks, take a gravity reading, look at its clarity...if you dont like it at this time, then take action...but not before!
 
I am actually using a recipe I Frankensteined from several other's I found online. I showed it to my LHBS guy and he helped me tweak it. I wasn't going to re-pitch; it was his recommendation to do so...

My OG was 1.080, FG is supposed to land right around 1.025. Last night the SG was 1.029.
 
Did you use dry yeast or liquid? How much did you pitch? You shouldn't need to repitch if you initially pitched the proper amount. The number of yeast in suspension even after conditioning should be fine for carbonation.

As for clearing agents, I clear all my brews with gelatin in the keg. There is never any flavor and all it does it help remove the stuff that didn't clear while fermenting/aging. I only do about 2-3 weeks in primary, cold crash for 2-3 days and then keg. My beer is always super clear after a few weeks in the keg when fully carbed and ready to drink.

To answer your question, no, in my experience gelatin and clearing agents like Irish Moss or Whirlflock (Which I use 1 or the other in every batch) offers no off flavors. It just helps to clear.
 
I wouldn't do any of the three.
Its a porter...its dark... you can't see through it whether you use finings or not...so why mess with it?

You typically only repitch at bottling for a lager that was lagered for an extended period, or for high gravity ales (like a barleywine that's over 12% abv and pushing 18%).

ales ferment fast, don't get lagered so there's normally no need to add more yeast provided you pitched enough at the beginning.
 
I pitched the Wyeast (1742) straight into the wort. I've read since about using starter, but I didn't use any for this batch... Do you think I'll have enough yeast left to not have to repitch?
 
tryals15 said:
I pitched the Wyeast (1742) straight into the wort. I've read since about using starter, but I didn't use any for this batch... Do you think I'll have enough yeast left to not have to repitch?
Click to expand...

Starters are always a great thing, however yeast in liquid form have really stepped up and increased the number of cells in a vial...which means you don't need s starter but it's never a bad idea to have one (especially in lagers).
 
So I guess I'm leaning towards leaving it be for clarity, and not repitching. Is there any way I can make sure there is enough yeast when I get ready to bottle?
 
tryals15 said:
So I guess I'm leaning towards leaving it be for clarity, and not repitching. Is there any way I can make sure there is enough yeast when I get ready to bottle?
Click to expand...

Gravity readings before and after are the best way to determine if you have enough active yeast working to make beer. If this beer came from a kit, then chances are they gave you starting and ending gravity readings...check your beer against there numbers and if you are on target then you did everything right and had enough happy yeast eating sugars and making beer!
 
SD-SLIM said:
Gravity readings before and after are the best way to determine if you have enough active yeast working to make beer. If this beer came from a kit, then chances are they gave you starting and ending gravity readings...check your beer against there numbers and if you are on target then you did everything right and had enough happy yeast eating sugars and making beer!
Click to expand...

This is not a kit. My SG readings are already right at those projected at hopville.com, and she still a bubblin'.
 
Wait until it's done fermenting, then check on it every X weeks to see if it's ready for bottle carbonating/conditioning. I wouldn't bottle it until it's actually ready for drink (except for carbonation).

Search through the threads and you'll find more than a few with people bottling batches that were left in primary for 6+ months that carbonated just fine once bottled.

Since the yeast you used is rated to 10% ABV, and your expecting ~9.2% ABV, the yeast shouldn't have any issue carbonating. It could take them longer than the normal 3 weeks (at 70F) so I wouldn't worry about that. I would chill one bottle after 3-4 weeks carbonating, chilling it down for 4-7 days to see where it's at. IF carbonation is good, and so is the rest of the brew, chill a few more for the same 4-7 days and start drinking them.

Personally, since I started kegging, I've not needed to worry one lick about yeast being left, or active enough, to carbonate a batch. Even if the brew is at the listed ABV limit of the yeast, it doesn't matter (for me).

IF you're really worried about not having active enough yeast for carbonating, and it's been sitting for several months, you could always pitch a packet of a high ABV yeast (like Lalvin EC-1118) before you go to bottle it. Just be sure it blends with the batch before you start bottling it. So either pitch a day, or a few, before you rack to the bottling bucket (and prime it), or after the brew going into the bottling bucket has cooled the priming solution to a safe temperature.
 
Golddiggie said:
Wait until it's done fermenting, then check on it every X weeks to see if it's ready for bottle carbonating/conditioning. I wouldn't bottle it until it's actually ready for drink (except for carbonation).

Search through the threads and you'll find more than a few with people bottling batches that were left in primary for 6+ months that carbonated just fine once bottled.

Since the yeast you used is rated to 10% ABV, and your expecting ~9.2% ABV, the yeast shouldn't have any issue carbonating. It could take them longer than the normal 3 weeks (at 70F) so I wouldn't worry about that. I would chill one bottle after 3-4 weeks carbonating, chilling it down for 4-7 days to see where it's at. IF carbonation is good, and so is the rest of the brew, chill a few more for the same 4-7 days and start drinking them.

Personally, since I started kegging, I've not needed to worry one lick about yeast being left, or active enough, to carbonate a batch. Even if the brew is at the listed ABV limit of the yeast, it doesn't matter (for me).

IF you're really worried about not having active enough yeast for carbonating, and it's been sitting for several months, you could always pitch a packet of a high ABV yeast (like Lalvin EC-1118) before you go to bottle it. Just be sure it blends with the batch before you start bottling it. So either pitch a day, or a few, before you rack to the bottling bucket (and prime it), or after the brew going into the bottling bucket has cooled the priming solution to a safe temperature.
Click to expand...

Sorry for being dense, but am I understanding (in general) that as long as the beer reaches or exceeds the predicted FG without going over what the yeast is rated to (ABV) then I shouldn't need to repitch?
 
tryals15 said:
Sorry for being dense, but am I understanding (in general) that as long as the beer reaches or exceeds the predicted FG without going over what the yeast is rated to (ABV) then I shouldn't need to repitch?
Click to expand...

General rule of thumb that as long as you're not at/above the listed yeast tolerance, for the actual FG (confirmed with at least two SG readings, 3+ days apart, longer for bigger brews) then you shouldn't need more yeast to carbonate. Carbonation can take longer as you reach the listed tolerance of the yeast. IF I was to add yeast (when I was bottling) I would use a neutral, high ABV tolerant yeast. Such as Lalvin EC-1118 since. There are more than a few postings of people having high ABV (or close to/above the listed tolerance of the yeast) brews take several times the normal amount of time to bottle carbonate.
 
Great! Thank you for helping me understand! Now I just need someone to teach me patience...
 
Well, the brew in question is for Christmas, so I knew it'd be a long wait anyway...

That's why I started a Cucumber Saison yesterday... That should be ready before I know it!
 

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