Members-Only Clubs & Homebrew?

I just joined our local Fraternal Order of Eagles chapter. I live in the middle of nowhere and there aren't many social opportunities. So, I thought this would be a great way to meet other locals. They have a little lounge with a bar usually Budweiser and Harpoon IPA on tap with a full bar. It's a nice hangout but the beer selection is pretty weak.

I know a lot of places go members-only or private so they can get around alcohol laws. I think how it works at our place is they can serve what they want and get kegs from anywhere as long as it's only consumed on premises..

Well, I have a sankey keg laying around and could fill it with homebrew. I'm wondering if this is legal? I asked one of the brothers and he said he had no idea. Anyone on HBT deal with private fraternal groups and brining homebrew to share with brothers?

Thanks!

I think the easiest way would be for you and your "brothers" to brew a beer together. That way it is "everyone's" beer. Maybe your FOE could even buy/reinburse you for the ingredients for your beer. I am assuming that this beer won't be sold...that is just a members only privledge.

Phunhog said:

I think the easiest way would be for you and your "brothers" to brew a beer together. That way it is "everyone's" beer. Maybe your FOE could even buy/reinburse you for the ingredients for your beer. I am assuming that this beer won't be sold...that is just a members only privledge.

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Great idea. I know the easiest answer is that I just ask them...but, before I ask and get shot down, it would be nice to have some suggestions like you outlined before I present the idea.

I think an Eagles Brew would be an awesome idea!

In Michigan, this would be legal up to a certain amount (I think 20 gallons(?) per year). But in NH, I have no idea. Reading the statute, though, seems like it would be legal to do this if you were holding tastings and "for personal use"L

Statute
New Hampshire statute Title XIII, Chapter 175, § 175:5-b provides that a license or permit is not required for the manufacture of family beer by persons over age 21 for personal or family use, and not for sale.

Discussion
This statute is a concise exception enabling the limited production of beer for home consumption without a license or permit. It also allows for transportation of the homebrew from the home for meetings, competitions, tastings, ect. and for personal use.

(This is from the AHA website)

Great feedback. For sure, I won't quote you but it gives me the idea to spend some extra time researching this.

It depends on how your state ABC defines "personal use". I would venture a guess that a for-profit club that makes alcohol available to its members as part of the membership fee is not "personal use". It would probably be ok if you did an individual tasting or two from time to time but regularly keeping it on tap, especially when you're not there, is going to be a hard one to fit into even a liberal construction of "personal use".

I'd also assume your club/bartenders have permits to serve alcohol. Those permits probably preclude serving beer that does not conform to your state's distribution laws.

That's why I suggested doing a group brew. If everyone does a little bit (i.e. measuring grain, stirring the mash, pitching yeast, clean up) it is a collective brew and no one person can claim it. Thus "personal use" would apply to each and every member who helped out.

If the club is giving it away for free, I can not imagine there would be any issues with a club like that.

Jaysus said:

If the club is giving it away for free, I can not imagine there would be any issues with a club like that.

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If they're already selling beer and wine legally, they may not be allowed to even have it on premise.

You really need to check with your local liquor control commission. My BIL is in a private yacht club in Michigan, and the club house has a members only bar, you have to be a member to physically purchase drinks, they have a liquor license, and they can ONLY purchase an serve alcohol bought through their distributor. They cannot even run out to a store to pick up a bottle of whiskey in an emergency during a function when they run out. And THEY CANNOT serve homebrewed beer/wine, etc.

Be very careful about this, there was a story on here about a bar that lost their liquor license, because they were having a homebrew competition in the bar, and a rep from the distrubator ratted on them to the liquor control commission. For having untaxed/unlicensed alcohol on the premise.

I'm sure they would have simply needed some sort of temp permit or given notice to the LCC to have allowed it to happen. Plenty of brew pubs do it.

Thanks Revvy. You always have great insight. I know it varies state and county but what you're saying does make sense. I'll make a few calls and see. It's a bummer that I just want to share some drinks with friends but that's how it is.

I'm also going to check on "member functions" at my house. I know for our work, even if the function is off-site, the corporate insurance requirements for alcohol being served is mandatory if it is in fact a work function communicated to the staff no matter how many times you put "unofficial"

Phunhog said:

That's why I suggested doing a group brew. If everyone does a little bit (i.e. measuring grain, stirring the mash, pitching yeast, clean up) it is a collective brew and no one person can claim it. Thus "personal use" would apply to each and every member who helped out.

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Saying that does not make it legal.

+1 to Revvy's explanation. It will totally depend on your states liquor laws, not really the clubs by-laws.

I've looked into doing it at our Aerie, but like above, in Missouri, if you have a liquor license, ONLY alcohol purchased from a licensed distributor may be sold at the establishment. On the flip side, I have previously done homebrew demonstrations there, because outside the back door is unlicensed premises, and therefore not regulated by the liquor laws. Many people have no clue what brewing beer actually looks like, and it's another way to get them introduced to it besides serving it to them. Also, if you are outside of the licensed premises, you can more than likely bring your own beer there, just not into the licensed area, which depends totally on how you are licensed. Some places like ours, it's the building and a small smoking area. Other places it the entire property, so that will depend on your situation.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Saying that does not make it legal.

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Brings up an interesting question...when there is a collaborative brew whose beer is it from a legal standpoint? Is there a legal reason why it can't belong to everyone who participated?

I don't know much about these groups, but do they sell the other drinks (Bud, IPA) or do they give it away as part of being in the club? If money is exchanged for each drink then it seems that there might be issues like what Revvy pointed out. If everything is given away for "free" then there might be other rules that would allow the homebrew.

neko said:

I don't know much about these groups, but do they sell the other drinks (Bud, IPA) or do they give it away as part of being in the club? If money is exchanged for each drink then it seems that there might be issues like what Revvy pointed out. If everything is given away for "free" then there might be other rules that would allow the homebrew.

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It varies club to club but in the few that I've been a part of, things are sold just above cost. For example, canned Bud Light is $2 a can and $1.75 for draft. Harpoon UFO is $3 a bottle. It's a lot less than you'd pay in a bar.

adamjackson said:

It varies club to club but in the few that I've been a part of, things are sold just above cost. For example, canned Bud Light is $2 a can and $1.75 for draft. Harpoon UFO is $3 a bottle. It's a lot less than you'd pay in a bar.

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If it is is being sold than the homebrew idea won't work. However I still think that if you do a collaborative brew it would be ok as long as the only ones who get to drink it are the ones who help to brew it.

Phunhog said:

If it is is being sold than the homebrew idea won't work. However I still think that if you do a collaborative brew it would be ok as long as the only ones who get to drink it are the ones who help to brew it.

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And who would regulate and keep track of who participated and gets the beer? The bartender isn't going to want to deal with that unless he/she/mixture of the two are getting beer too, but legally bartenders are not allowed to drink on the clock.

I don't know, IMO I would have to go with Yooper and just do a tasting from time to time.

neko said:

I don't know much about these groups, but do they sell the other drinks (Bud, IPA) or do they give it away as part of being in the club? If money is exchanged for each drink then it seems that there might be issues like what Revvy pointed out. If everything is given away for "free" then there might be other rules that would allow the homebrew.

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It doesn't matter if money is exchanged or not, that's not the issue. My understanding is the issue of having un taxed, unlicensed liquor on the same premise where licensed liquor is sold, regardless of whether it's to members only or not. If a liquor inspection shows up, he's not going to believe that folks are "just giving it away..." Or whatever other "ideas" people may come up with to try to game the system.

Before anyone does anything they better, rather than speculate, contact the ones enforcing the laws, and get it clarified. You don't want to put any existing liquor licenses in jeopardy, do you?

If my BIL is tending bar at the club on a busy Saturday night and can't run to the corner store for another bottle of Crown Royal because they run out, do you think it's going to be "ok" to have homebrew on the premise if an inspector walks in?

Revvy said:

It doesn't matter if money is exchanged or not, that's not the issue. My understanding is the issue of having un taxed, unlicensed liquor on the same premise where licensed liquor is sold, regardless of whether it's to members only or not. If a liquor inspection shows up, he's not going to believe that folks are "just giving it away..." Or whatever other "ideas" people may come up with to try to game the system.

Before anyone does anything they better, rather than speculate, contact the ones enforcing the laws, and get it clarified. You don't want to put any existing liquor licenses in jeopardy, do you?

If my BIL is tending bar at the club on a busy Saturday night and can't run to the corner store for another bottle of Crown Royal because they run out, do you think it's going to be "ok" to have homebrew on the premise if an inspector walks in?

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This is excellent advice! But don't be surprised if the answer the ABC gives you isn't really an answer...at least that has been my experience with the CA ABC. I have contacted them a few times to clarify homebrewing laws and what they usually do is quote the law and leave it at that. They don't want to be in the game of interpreting "what if" questions. Much easier for them to quote the law and leave it at that.

Phunhog said:

This is excellent advice! But don't be surprised if the answer the ABC gives you isn't really an answer...at least that has been my experience with the CA ABC. I have contacted them a few times to clarify homebrewing laws and what they usually do is quote the law and leave it at that. They don't want to be in the game of interpreting "what if" questions. Much easier for them to quote the law and leave it at that.

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And you know what happens then? You do it, and an inspector shows up, and you get penalized. Didn't the college kids who got busted for their homebrew festival mentioned on here a few years back get one kind of permit, but noone clarified that what they were doing wasn't covered under the one they got, and they got their beer, AND the homebrew equipment they were using to demo brewing seized?

That's why I suggest folks just stay away from the gray areas.....If the OP wants to share HB with his lodge buddies....do it at HIS house. NOT at the clubhouse. Then he won't have to put the club's liquor license at risk.

Have the guys over to watch football, or a bbq, and he won't have to worry.

Lebanon eagles? I think they do the membership thing with a private club so they can smoke inside. I had gone to the one in Keene, and you couldn't see the person sitting next to you. As far as home brew, it is all about the tax dollars. The reason it is limited is because homebrew is without tax. I don't think the gov't cares about the brewing process, risks, etc. They are focused on the fact that no tax dollars are collected when a home brew is consumed.

bluemoose said:

Lebanon eagles? I think they do the membership thing with a private club so they can smoke inside. I had gone to the one in Keene, and you couldn't see the person sitting next to you. As far as home brew, it is all about the tax dollars. The reason it is limited is because homebrew is without tax. I don't think the gov't cares about the brewing process, risks, etc. They are focused on the fact that no tax dollars are collected when a home brew is consumed.

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https://www.facebook.com/canaan.eagles?fref=ts

That's the place. They allow smoking so I usually go early afternoon before it gets too bad.

bluemoose said:

Lebanon eagles? I think they do the membership thing with a private club so they can smoke inside. I had gone to the one in Keene, and you couldn't see the person sitting next to you. As far as home brew, it is all about the tax dollars. The reason it is limited is because homebrew is without tax. I don't think the gov't cares about the brewing process, risks, etc. They are focused on the fact that no tax dollars are collected when a home brew is consumed.

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It's ALWAYS been about the tax.....why do you think Alcohol production including the laws governing homebrewing are handled by the TTB now, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau....And why do you think homebrewing took so long to get RE-legalized 30 some years after prohibition was rescinded....

Revvy said:

And you know what happens then? You do it, and an inspector shows up, and you get penalized. Didn't the college kids who got busted for their homebrew festival mentioned on here a few years back get one kind of permit, but noone clarified that what they were doing wasn't covered under the one they got, and they got their beer, AND the homebrew equipment they were using to demo brewing seized?

That's why I suggest folks just stay away from the gray areas.....If the OP wants to share HB with his lodge buddies....do it at HIS house. NOT at the clubhouse. Then he won't have to put the club's liquor license at risk.

Have the guys over to watch football, or a bbq, and he won't have to worry.

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I understand what you are saying but homebrewing laws have only changed when people push the boundries and operate in the gray area. Look at some of the recent law changes in Oregon and Wisconsin. Those laws passed because people were already operating in the gray area AND those laws did not make any sense. I seriously doubt if those laws would ever of changed if it was NOT for some sort of negative action by a government agency.