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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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Hope ur kidding right?
LHBS prices vs buying online
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Hope ur kidding right?
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
I walk in needing enough stuff for 3 batches or well under 50 bucks. Leon hands me a glass and tells me keep her full while I get this stuff together. Next thing I know I am half drunk and buying way more stuff than I need or even want.
Arrheinous
Well-Known Member
To note, at my LHBS:
- Base Malts: 1.49 for things like Munich, Pilsner, Wheat
- Crystal: Mostly 1.89 to maybe 2.09
- High Kiln: Around 2.00
- Roasted: 1.89 to 2.00
- Base Malts: 1.49 for things like Munich, Pilsner, Wheat
- Crystal: Mostly 1.89 to maybe 2.09
- High Kiln: Around 2.00
- Roasted: 1.89 to 2.00
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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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Haha sounds like a nice guy. Wish my experience was similar.
I know this was aimed at someone else but I wanted to comment on it.
The way I see it, my state has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country (4.5%ish?). Why not buy from a supplier in the Midwest where the unemployment rate is 9%? It's still buying American. I support local business in my home state with my fuel, food, and entertainment costs and Lord knows the local government gets plenty of my money in taxes!
DonLiguori
Well-Known Member
Sarcasm FTW. Unless it happens. Then, I guess it's a good thing to be prepared.
Being prepared FTW.
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
The comment was back at another guy, but I think every comment is open to rebuttal by anyone. It's a pretty open discussion.
Well you can certainly do what you want, but in the big picture, like was stated way back, the threat of the ecommerce replacing the local stores is the big picture.
Any one industry isn't really going to be the trigger that causes the problem.
If no one bought from the local brew store and they went under, that would have very little effect on the economy.
The big picture though is based on the pattern of all the little decisions that are made.
It's completely based on one small purchase at a time and that purchase isn't a problem.
The combination of all those meaningless purchases is the problem, sort of like death by a million paper cuts.
You have to decide as an individual if you are going to contribute to the shift to online or to supporting the local stores.
There are times when I don't shop local and go to stores out of town for example simply because the local store isn't a good store. Price, service and other factors can make me not go to a store.
Price by it's self though doesn't mean that they have to be the cheapest option, only that I think they are being fair.
There is more overhead cost per item in a local store and the buying power sometimes means that they don't get the item for what an online retailer does.
vic_and_krystal
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My LHBS is 2 hours away so after figuring gas in with everything it is so not worth making that drive.. Only thing about online is the shipping...Morebeer took 9 days to send my last batch... 
What is the best online store? I also used brewers best with my first kit, it only took a few days to get here and they had the best customer service. Can't say that with morebeer...
What is the best online store? I also used brewers best with my first kit, it only took a few days to get here and they had the best customer service. Can't say that with morebeer...
WyomingBrewer
Well-Known Member
As the owner of the LHBS I must say Im a bit hurt. I shop the on-line stores and try to compete but I also have to be realistic. I pay X amount for a product from my supplier, X amount for shipping to my store, Rent, Utilities, labor, etc.... I think my prices are fair but I can not charge what the on-line stores do. If my business were to increase and I had a cash flow that was consistent I could drop prices to be more competitive. As it is with being a new business and the rates I have to pay to get items here and on the shelf you can buy them for less on-line. Factor in shipping and waiting for delivery and Im clearly the better option plus I'm right here for you Monday thru Saturday!
Stocktonbrew
Well-Known Member
Support local home brew shops. It was a bummer to see our LHBS close years ago. Now I drive an hour to get supplies. I know i pay more, but its worth it to support the community. Its also frustrating that most of my brew equipment says MADE IN CHINA on it.
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
As you can see, I'm with you man!
If you were within 2 1/2 hours of me like my "local" store, you would know me by name!
My LHBS is 2 hours away so after figuring gas in with everything it is so not worth making that drive.. Only thing about online is the shipping...Morebeer took 9 days to send my last batch...
I can understand this since it's not actually local and the cost in time and money to get there is a factor.
I would buy less at the store 2 1/2 hours from me if it weren't for taking my daughter to visit family there and combining other needs into the trip.
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
I guess thats where we differ, i dont see eCommerce as a threat.
I see it as the next logical step towards the method of sale for what is now a global economy. There's really no fighting it at this point, i'd venture to say that a majority of commerce will be done online in the next decade. Hell you've even been able to buy groceries online and have them delivered to your house for the last 5+ years.
That said i buy local when i can, but when things are over 2x the cost locally than online with shipping, you really dont think twice about saving.
Like i'd love to get my keezer supplies(shanks/faucets/hose/etc) locally, but buying it all locally even from Brew Brothers i'd be paying an extra 100+ dollars than getting it from various online shops.
SpentGrains
Well-Known Member
Well I'm not local to you obviously but I'll give you my opinion (worth less than two cents):
You have no online presence. I just Googled for you, not knowing your name but generic search terms with your city state, and a competitor's ad comes up on Google. I can't find where your store is but an online competitor. Strike 1.
A little Google-Foo to search out your store name I found it, and Googled you and only a Facebook page comes up. I have no Facebook account (honestly) so I don't really know what to do. I did find your name and address though, but no email. Strike 2.
There really isn't any reason you shouldn't be dominating the WY specific online searches, if at least to help people find where you are.
WyomingBrewer
Well-Known Member
Big Horn Basin Brew Supply....I do not have an on-line store as of yet. We are new as I have stated. I do want to grow and be able to keep enough inventory in stock to have an on-line presence but that takes people choosing me over on-line to do. All we have right now is a Facebook page. You can look for us there.
Stocktonbrew
Well-Known Member
True...I found the closest shop to me(the good brewer in livermore) using a google search.
WyomingBrewer
Well-Known Member
Okay, being computer illeterate, how does one go about getting that? I agree, with a google search in this area I should be right on top of the list. Im always open for help in promoting my store.
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
I can see not being interested in online.
You should be able to find any business at least exists and what their hours are though.
My "local" store doesn't have much more than that.
They're setup to have inventory online and even orders, but the time to do it is the big problem I think.
Just being able to find their hours and number is good enough for me. I've got his number in my phone and got his email address so that I can check if he has what I want before I drive 2 1/2 hours to the store.
In modern times though, I do google what I'm looking for right on my phone when I'm out of town then use the GPS to find them.
If a store is only interested in very local business, they don't need it.
A brew store should be drawing people from the outlying areas though.
I do understand though that it takes time and money go get there.
As I said, if I were within range of your store, you would know my face and probably my first name.
You should be able to find any business at least exists and what their hours are though.
My "local" store doesn't have much more than that.
They're setup to have inventory online and even orders, but the time to do it is the big problem I think.
Just being able to find their hours and number is good enough for me. I've got his number in my phone and got his email address so that I can check if he has what I want before I drive 2 1/2 hours to the store.
In modern times though, I do google what I'm looking for right on my phone when I'm out of town then use the GPS to find them.
If a store is only interested in very local business, they don't need it.
A brew store should be drawing people from the outlying areas though.
I do understand though that it takes time and money go get there.
As I said, if I were within range of your store, you would know my face and probably my first name.
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
First of all you need a website. Then you really need to do some type of SEO(Search Engine Optimization) there are companies out there that can help you do it, or you can try to do it yourself...but it takes many months to get noticed and prominently displayed by google or other search engines.
A web domain is super cheap per year and a website is like $10-15 a month maximum for what your doing, there are cheaper options too.
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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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I hear ya! I completely understand your struggle as a small business owner.
Offer your products with a markup to cover your cost and pay yourself a fair wage. If you offer good service with a smile in addition to a competitive price you will stay open much longer than the rest.
The LHBS I went to is very well known in the area and does a fairly high volume of business for what I can tell. With a 42% variance in their prices compared to Morebeer and not even seeing their overhead, I can say with a bit of certainty that they are making a healthy profit at the cost of unsuspecting customers who are not as nerdy as me and actually do this comparison.
While I will not mention the name of this establishment (you know who you are) I have located another local home brew store that just opened and at first glance has much better prices and just as large of a selection.
I will stop by this evening and pick up a few odds and ends and scope it out. Will report back.
Who are you guys using in the RDU area?
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
I would start by contacting these guys.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/wyoming
They list local stores on their website and I used the Washington equivalent when I started searching.
Your own web page would be good, but I don't know jack about setting that up.
No one had computers when I was in school, so the 20 something guys will be able to help there.
Even finding out where there are clubs within a decent driving range and stopping into a meeting could help you out a bunch, not that I've ever been to a brew club.
SpentGrains
Well-Known Member
Pretty much on point, you don't even need to become Morebeer but you need to be able to be found online. I only use the Yellowpages to lift my computer monitor up off my desk, seriously.
The short cut is paying for advertising on search engines and other sites, and if Yelp is as big where you are as it is where I am, GET ON IT and work at getting solid reviews. When I look for a new restaurant to eat at for example, I look on Yelp. If you get a solid Yelp presence that will put you and your positive reviews at the top of the Google search.
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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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I'm going to give you a helping hand my friend.
I have been doing SEO for 4 years now as a career and will tell you that the face of Search Engine Optimization has changed quite a bit in recent months.
There are thousands of self proclaimed SEO experts out there that will take your money and give you very little in return.
If you are interested in getting the most bang for your buck you should:
-Develop a website by signing up for web hosting and create a simple site using wordpress.
- Use Google Plus to create a business page for exposure
-promote your website on other websites
Would love to explain everything but way too much info. Google anything that you don't understand. The information is out there, you just gotta find it.
Good luck
I don't think I've missed your point. I've understood everything you've said thus far. I don't disagree because I can't comprehend the words that you're writing. To imply such would be, quite frankly, very rude.
The jobs have moved from that company to some other company. Clearly we can agree on this simple point.
As for the taxes from that company, we obviously need to fix the tax laws. We've been content to buy online and not pay taxes, even openly admitting that we buy online to avoid them at times. That's just the sales tax portion.
If we're talking the rest of the tax revenue from the company that's gone, they've moved to wherever the other company is. There's no way around this one, unless you're in favor of a wholly Federally subsidized system of local governments.
Now. Is it really gone? Probably not. If I saved $50 by shopping for, say, PB2 online, am I necessarily going to go spend that $50 online? I may very well decide to take a road trip, or buy 20 sacks of potatoes, or hire a local hooker.
This argument has been had since the dawn of time. The automobile took away trainmakers' income. The train took away the carriagemakers' income. The carriage took away the saddlemakers' income. The saddle took away (some of) the shoemakers' income. On and on. You'd think we'd all be unemployed by now. But yanno what, our neighbors still have jobs - much more technical ones at that.
As humans, we like to think of the future as doom and gloom because it's different than the past, but really it's just different from what we've accustomed ourselves to. And that scares the hell out of us. We're not creatures that deal well with anything less than absolute certainly (and often times, if we can achieve it, we find it boring).
If you want to be concerned about the concentration of wealth and the movement of funds from rural to urban areas, as seems to be your main concern, then you have to oppose corporations, not online shopping.
Show me a recent source for this. One written in, say, the last 3 years, by a reputable source.
You can't have your pie and eat it too. I choose to live in a small town outside suburbia, but with the understanding that my savings on my mortgage will be eaten up by other expenses primarily relating to petroleum.
Again, it causes me to have a buck leftover to spend however I want, including locally if I so choose. So, sure, I'll buy Chinese screws over American screws if they're less expensive.
If a Chinese factory makes the same product for a cheaper price, why should I pay more? Do you neighbors really want jobs working in a screw factory under deplorable conditions and disgusting work hours for pennies per hour? I've never seen a Chinese factory job that I would personally want to do (other than assembling iPhones), even for $10/hour.
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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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Solid advice. In the meantime, try Google Adsense, Yelp, etc.
WyomingBrewer
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Thanks, Im checking it out now! 
Thanks, Im checking it out now!
I too tried to search for you. And without knowing your company name, I was unable to find you.
You really need to put up a business profile on Google. If I'm driving through a town, I use Google Maps to find LBHSes. If I type "NameofCity, ST Home Brewing Supply" and it doesn't come up, I keep driving.
It doesn't have to be intricate. Your business name. Your store hours. Your contact information. A few categories. Adding your logo would be icing on the cake.
Start here: https://accounts.google.com/Service...=https://www.google.com/local/add?service=lbc
Perhaps I'm a bit jaded. I haven't had great service thus far. I've been to two of my LBHSes.
One was OK. It took an hour for me to pick up two recipe kits. They're displayed online, but they don't have anything in the store to say what's available. I told the clerk what kind of beers I'd like and asked if he could recommend one. He told me to look at what they had on the shelf or use my phone to look at the website. Seriously? It was right at opening, and there was 3 customers there, but I was going into the city and could have come back to pick up my order in a few hours if he'd taken a few more minutes to help me. Once we were at the ringing up stage, I had his full attention. Funny, that.
The other LHBS I went into was dirty. I don't mean just slightly dirty. Super dirty. So dirty that I'd be be nervous for my car if it was getting the oil changed inside his store. The old guy at the counter was grumpy. When he asked what i secondary in, I told him I usually skip it. He asked where I learned that, and I said "online". He comes back with "yeah, there's a lot of really bad misinformation floating around out there". It was like a slap to the face. I rang out the few things I'd picked out and left. I'm not going back. Sacramento brewers probably know exactly what LHBS I'm talking about.
I went to visit the 3rd one, 90 minutes away. Has good reviews. Arrived to find it closed Tuesdays. Looked nice through the windows, so I had somebody that works in the area pick me up some things the next day. They're not a brewer. I provided a recipe and asked for a few simple things, like clamps. They came back with the grain ground up loose in a paper grocery sack, 3 month old Wyeast, and over a dozen stainless thumbscrew clamps that cost $1.75 each. The debit receipt was for $135, they didn't have all of the ingredients, and he was there 90 minutes. There's no itemized receipt, so I have no idea where all that money went to. At least he was offered a brew while he waited.
One was OK. It took an hour for me to pick up two recipe kits. They're displayed online, but they don't have anything in the store to say what's available. I told the clerk what kind of beers I'd like and asked if he could recommend one. He told me to look at what they had on the shelf or use my phone to look at the website. Seriously? It was right at opening, and there was 3 customers there, but I was going into the city and could have come back to pick up my order in a few hours if he'd taken a few more minutes to help me. Once we were at the ringing up stage, I had his full attention. Funny, that.
The other LHBS I went into was dirty. I don't mean just slightly dirty. Super dirty. So dirty that I'd be be nervous for my car if it was getting the oil changed inside his store. The old guy at the counter was grumpy. When he asked what i secondary in, I told him I usually skip it. He asked where I learned that, and I said "online". He comes back with "yeah, there's a lot of really bad misinformation floating around out there". It was like a slap to the face. I rang out the few things I'd picked out and left. I'm not going back. Sacramento brewers probably know exactly what LHBS I'm talking about.
I went to visit the 3rd one, 90 minutes away. Has good reviews. Arrived to find it closed Tuesdays. Looked nice through the windows, so I had somebody that works in the area pick me up some things the next day. They're not a brewer. I provided a recipe and asked for a few simple things, like clamps. They came back with the grain ground up loose in a paper grocery sack, 3 month old Wyeast, and over a dozen stainless thumbscrew clamps that cost $1.75 each. The debit receipt was for $135, they didn't have all of the ingredients, and he was there 90 minutes. There's no itemized receipt, so I have no idea where all that money went to. At least he was offered a brew while he waited.
SpentGrains
Well-Known Member
Good point about Google maps, that may be #1 priority. Where does Apple maps get its location data from? Google?
Yep, it's interactions like that with shop owners in general that's disheartening. They remind me of some of the old guys who have been wrenching on cars their whole life. They know EVERYTHING about cars (sure do, any car made before 1976 anyways). They've been doing it their way for decades, and it works so there couldn't possibly be a better way...
Yep, it's interactions like that with shop owners in general that's disheartening. They remind me of some of the old guys who have been wrenching on cars their whole life. They know EVERYTHING about cars (sure do, any car made before 1976 anyways). They've been doing it their way for decades, and it works so there couldn't possibly be a better way...
From the bottom the sea, I'd imagine.
Google Maps on the left, Apple Maps on the right.
Google Maps on the left, Apple Maps on the right.
Clonefan94
Senior Member
This is very true. Google is the new phone book. It's not difficult at all to put up a basic page and at the very least, have a page with items and brand names you carry. You don't have to be an online retailer, but knowing you carry say Monster Mills could be a huge point in having someone stop in.
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
From the bottom the sea, I'd imagine.
Google Maps on the left, Apple Maps on the right.
Dont know what they were thinking they could break into the maps market in 1 year when Google and Microsoft have had it on lockdown for like 8+ years now.
No idea. They made all iOS 6+ users use Apple Maps. Google Maps isn't even a choice anymore.
I refused to update my iPhone 3GS which was eligible for iOS6. A month later, I bought a Samsung Galaxy S III. No more Apple products for me.
I refused to update my iPhone 3GS which was eligible for iOS6. A month later, I bought a Samsung Galaxy S III. No more Apple products for me.
camiller
Well-Known Member
Funny thing about mills, all of the US manufacturers sell directly to the public and none of them want to give enough of a wholesale discount for a (small) LHBS to sell at the same price and cover a share of overhead. You either have what appears to be a competitive price and make no money on it, or you price it with some markup knowing you will only sell to the "want it right now" guy. My LHBS stocks no roller mills, we just refer folks to barly crusher/monster/crankandstein/schmidling.
Same disclosure as before, I work at my LHBS part time.
WyomingBrewer
Well-Known Member
Okay, did the google business thing and added my business to yelp. Need to get a web site person to help with that. Thanks for the input folks. I will take all the help I can get to our name out there.
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OrdinaryAvgGuy
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Nice. The area of Wyoming that you are in seems to be a small community. A simple website should do the trick - just enough info to get your name to pop up when someone googles "Homebrew stores Worland, Wyoming".
Don't waste your money building a huge website to rank for that keyword. With very little competition, you should be able to get to the top even with a basic temple website.
Good luck with your business!
jakenbacon
Well-Known Member
Last night, I went out and purchased brewing ingredients for my next three batches.
Being the tightwad that I am, I decided to compare the prices that I just paid locally to two popular websites - Northern Brewer and Morebeer.
While comparing, I took into account local taxes for the LHBS and shipping charges for online orders. Here are the results for my shopping list. (the prices reflect different quantities. For instance, I may have purchased a couple ounces of one hops and only one ounce of another)
Conclusion, The LHBS is 12% more expensive than NB and NB is 26% more than Morebeer.
In other words, More beer is 42% cheaper than my LHBS, considering all factors. (In addition, I don't hafta drive 15 miles to take it in the A)
On a side note, it was much cheaper to buy my bulk american 2 row locally, only because the shipping costs of 50#
Anyone else do a similar comparison with other eCommerce sites? Any better ones out there?
I understand that the 42% difference between the LHBS and Moore beer is due mostly to additional overhead costs but as a craft beer consumer on a malt liquor budget, buying online only makes sense to me.
My word your LHBS is outrageously priced. No website on the planet even comes close to my LHBS prices, and if they do shipping just kills it. I didn't know I was so lucky....
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
Helpful tip, go post on some community college or high school jobs board.
You will find some kid who can whip you up a page and will work for cheap.
If your really tech unsavvy, it might not be worth the hassle instead just pay some kid 50 bucks to build you a basic site, take pictures of products/storefronts/owners, and fill out all of the information. It sounds easy and it is with tools like wordpress, its more the time commitment of getting all of the information out there. How important your time is and how comfortable you are in making a decent site is what it comes down too, bad websites are almost worse than not having one at all. If i cant find your info thats one thing, but if i find your site then go to it and cant find what im looking for I am immediately frustrated and turned off lol. One of my local brew shops Main Brew recently upgraded their website, and its HORRIBLE now. Every search shows a big gigantic picture of the grain and a description, and the search is so bad it pops up like 50 things, and of course it can only show 10 per page, so something like finding the price for a grain that should take 10 seconds takes 3 minutes of page scrolling.
Go here http://www.mainbrew.com and search for Pale...which you would expect to pop up a list of products containing the word pale..like Pale 2 row, Pale Extract, but no...it gives you 6 pages of nonsense. And. It. Makes. Me. Rage.
We've all seen them, the sites that look like they haven't been upgraded since 1995. Animated GIF's of mail going into a mailbox and tons of sparkling flashing colors is not going to cut it now adays
I don't mind paying a bit more to support my lhbs. Do I buy everything at my lhbs? No... I like the convenience of buying online, selection is sometimes better and sometimes the pricing comes out better as well. I go to the lhbs for bulk grain (sometimes group buy for this) and for things I need right away. I would say I support both fairly equal with my business.
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Even though my LHBS store is also a little more expensive, I still try to buy some stuff their to keep a good standing relationship with the owner as you never know when a favor might come in handy. They will go a little out of their way to help knowing you are supporting their buisness!!!!
FWIW, the packets of yeast I've bought locally have been 2-3 months old. The packets I bought online were weeks to 1 month old.
