Heatsticks vs mounting element in keggle...

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Dgonza9

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I'm just curious what people's experiences and opinions are on this. I started by make heat sticks. They worked great, but then I had the one with the j bend fail on me due to the pour in method and possibly over thinning the jb weld.

After that, I started mounting in the keggle. I'm almost done and for the beginner this does take a different skill set, but to me it seems like a cleaner, more reliable, possibly safer install.

Your thoughts? Here's my new brew kettle. I installed one 2000w element. I will also be using one heat stick to supplement it. I don't have 220 as I didn't have room in my electrical panel to install the gfci breaker for one, whereas I could add two slim line 20 amp circuits no problem. I may just forgo the second heat stick and just mount another 2000 watt element, but at this point it seems like a waste of time.

Heat stick pros: No drilling the keggle (pretty easy once you have the right tools and know how to go about it), portable.

Mounting in keggle: No JB Weld near beer. Seems safer to me. About half the price of building a heat stick.

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My opinion: Heatsticks scare the sh*t out of me and I would never use one.

I have an element mounted in a kettle, and I had the locknut welded to the thing.
 
I have to admit, the concept of submerging your wiring in a pot full of water is scary. I keep mine on a switched gfci and I try not to touch anything when the system is energized. When my heat stick failed I was boiling away and the gfci popped. I unplugged it, reset, put it in the keggle, plugged it in, hit the switch and the gfci popped right away again. I tried all four of my gfci outlets. Same story. It's nice to know the gfci works and the keggle is grounded.

That being said, once I saw this thing fail with about 8 months of use it freaked me out enough that I decided to mount in the keggle. My trouble is that I don't have 240v gfci breaker. No time or money for it right now. No room in my electrical panel, either, although I could replace some 20 amp circuits with slimline 20 amp breakers to make the space. PITA, though.

I suppose I could add a second 2000w element to the keggle and leave the heat stick aside for now. My keggle already looks like frankenstein, though.
 
My opinion: Heatsticks scare the sh*t out of me and I would never use one.

I have an element mounted in a kettle, and I had the locknut welded to the thing.

Just curious about your signature. Wouldn't a licensed electrician advise you never to boil water/wort in this manner, or no?
 
Just curious about your signature. Wouldn't a licensed electrician advise you never to boil water/wort in this manner, or no?

Why would he advise against it? A water heater is a large tank with an electric heating element in it. My kettle is pretty much the same thing, except that I cut the top off the tank.

As a matter of fact, the licensed electrician that installed the 240v outlet and GFI breaker in my garage for my brewery thought it was a fantastic idea. He ended up knocking money off the price of the work I had him do because he thought my project was so cool. He was very interested, looked over my schematics and partially assembled panel and thought it kicked ass.
 
Heatsticks also seem dangerous to me. You can build them in a safe manner, but I don't think the drain pipe and JB weld method is a viable solution for me. You are submerging the wiring, in boiling liquid, so you'd better make damn sure it's robust enough to handle that. The triclamp versions are cool, but at that price point you're better off mounting the element. My vote is for mounting them, but I wouldn't mount just one 2000w element, it won't be enough to maintain a good boil, and won't work well for a HLT unless you are a very patient man. I'd upgrade to 240v before considering putting TWO elements in the same vessel.
 
240V is the thing to do. But again, having to reorganize the electrical panel to add the 30 amp gfci makes this less attractive than adding another 2000w element. Plus, the cost is much more significant than adding another element.

My concern is drilling another hole and then having to do something to plug it if I go 240V.

For now I've got one element in the keggle and a heat stick to supplement. I'll probably only use that during the boil as I can always run sparge water thru the RIMS tube for some extra power.

But an upgrade is in the future.

Anyone have anything positive to say about heat sticks?
 
I agree with the above. I think heat sticks are an electrocution waiting to happen. I will never criticize anyone for using one but I would never even think about using one.
 
Ya, just wire a plug going from your kettle to your control box so you can unplug it to clean and that portable problem is taken care of. I have a 5500w element in my keggle and it works great. No way I'd use a heatstick
 
I chose the heatstick route because when the weather is nice I like to brew on my deck with propane & I can't afford 2 boil kettles. If using a GFCI I think the heatsticks are safe.
 
I've done both, and I can definitely say that I've had way less problems with the element mounted in the kettle. Also, I'm not scared to use the darn thing anymore.

If you have the capability to mount the element in the kettle, I would suggest doing it that way.
 
There's certainly more inherent risk with a heatstick, but if you build it properly and use a gfci i don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I have no worries when i plug mine in because i know the way i made it ensures there's no chance water will make it to the electrical connection even if it somehow manages to get in the pipe.

For those that follow the cedar creek et al. method of blindly pouring JB weld into the pipe--that's another story. My electrical connection is completely sealed before it ever goes into the pipe.
 
For those that follow the cedar creek et al. method of blindly pouring JB weld into the pipe--that's another story. My electrical connection is completely sealed before it ever goes into the pipe.
Ditto; my first attempt tried the pour method, after 1 week of curing it keep tripping the GFCI. I then built one by encapsulating the electrical connections first. It has worked great for 5 batches now.
 
So you somehow cover the electrical connections with JB Weld first, then pour into the pipe?

I think the main problem with the pour in method is when making one with a J bend. The straight ones I've made have never had a problem (knock wood). But if I was to make another one, I would probably do an all copper version with a silicone wrap at the handle.

I'll probably look into a 4500W element this summer. But it's costly and time consuming for me as I'll have to replace four 20 amp breakers in my panel with slim line versions to make room for a 30 amp, 240V GFCI.

In some ways, a second 2000W element continues to make sense. Other than another protrusion in the keggle I keep coming back to that idea. I can do that for like $30, versus probably about $150 for a single 240V element.
 
If you plug a 4000 W element into a 240 V line you get 4000 W. If you plugged said element into a 120 line wouldn't you get 2000 W? Maybe all elements can't do this but I bet you can find one at Home Depot, or a plumbing supply store, that can be wired on a 240 or a 120 line. This way the element is ready for you if and when you upgrade the circuit.

After thinking about this, I realized my calculations are off...

P=V^2/R should be the formula to used because the resistance of the element will not change

P=v^2/R; V=240 and v = 1/2 V = 120
P=1/4 * V^2/R

This means that the element would run at one quarter of the 240 rating when run on a 120 line. The ratings would be:
240V -> 120 V
4000 W -> 1000 W
5000 W -> 1250 W
5500 W -> 1375 W
6000 W -> 1500 W
 
If you plug a 4000 W element into a 240 V line you get 4000 W. If you plugged said element into a 120 line wouldn't you get 2000 W? Maybe all elements can't do this but I bet you can find one at Home Depot, or a plumbing supply store, that can be wired on a 240 or a 120 line. This way the element is ready for you if and when you upgrade the circuit.

1000 watts from a 4000w 240 running at 120
 
Unfortunately, that's correct. I've also installed one 2000W element in the keggle at this point. I JB Welded it to the back of a waterproof box and mounted with 1" element nut and food grade silicone gaskets. I have a waterproof cover and will cover the connections in food grade silicone just to be safe.

My only decision is whether to add a second 2000W element or to upgrade to 240V. That won't happen until summer, though. Money, time, etc., as mentioned previously.
 
So you somehow cover the electrical connections with JB Weld first, then pour into the pipe?

I think the main problem with the pour in method is when making one with a J bend. The straight ones I've made have never had a problem (knock wood). But if I was to make another one, I would probably do an all copper version with a silicone wrap at the handle.

There's no pouring of jb weld into the pipe at all. I outline the way i built mine here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-method-sealing-heatstick-220198/
 
My only decision is whether to add a second 2000W element or to upgrade to 240V. That won't happen until summer, though. Money, time, etc., as mentioned previously.

If you are going to eventually upgrade to 240V, then my suggestion (even though I don't like them) is to go the heatstick route.

You are only going to need a single element when you go to 240V, so I would avoid cutting another hole in the kettle that you will then have to plug up with something later. Plus, you could sell the heatstick when you move up to 240V.
 
Guys, thanks for the advice. Since I'm brewing this weekend, I'm going with my heat stick and the element mounted in keggle for 10 gallons of English Brown.

Beyond that I keep bouncing back and forth. Any reason other than just neatness in the keggle and a kind of purist mentality for how to do this that a person shouldn't mount two elements in the keggle? 4000W is enough for the 10 gallon batches I brew. If I'm heating strike water I can always circulate thru my RIMS for even more power.

So although I'm likely to change my mind again tomorrow like a total tool, for now I think I'm settling on mounting a second element. I mean, I can't find a reason for all the extra expense and work of installing 240V given all the work and expense in the panel with rewiring four breakers to slim lines just to make room.

Anything I'm missing? Any real drawbacks to two 120v elements in the keggle?
 
If you go with 240v, I think the price of a heat stick vs. mounting in the kettle is pretty comparable.

I believe heat sticks can be safe, but I feel the potentially short lifespan makes them a poor investment in both my time and money. This is purely anecdotal evidence from what I've seen on the forums, however. I do know that a properly mounted element is less likely to fail due to electrical short at the terminals.

Plus, a mounted element is just cool, whereas a heat stick can be awkward and in the way. I also don't like the fact that the heat stick touches the side of the vessel (unless suspended). The only time I would recommend a heat stick is to heat in a plastic vessel. Even though I'm not keen on using plastic with hot liquids, it's probably easier to use a heat stick than to get an element to seal reliably to plastic.
 
I'm not to happy with the safety of my heat stick. I built a J bend heat stick and it worked great for about the first 3 batches. Now after about 30 minutes of use the GFCI pops off. I too encapsulated the hot and neutral wires before installing it within the drain pipe. Really the only thing exposed to a potential leak is the ground wire but I'm still not wild about the thing leaking and the gfci popping all the time. I recently sealed up part of the stick with more JB weld and I'll see how this works until I get my permanent brewstand completed. After doing both methods I think it's cheaper, cleaner, easier and more safe to mount it within the kettle. Although heatsticks give you more flexibility by allowing it to be passed to different kettles.
 
I'm not to happy with the safety of my heat stick. I built a J bend heat stick and it worked great for about the first 3 batches. Now after about 30 minutes of use the GFCI pops off. I too encapsulated the hot and neutral wires before installing it within the drain pipe. Really the only thing exposed to a potential leak is the ground wire but I'm still not wild about the thing leaking and the gfci popping all the time. I recently sealed up part of the stick with more JB weld and I'll see how this works until I get my permanent brewstand completed. After doing both methods I think it's cheaper, cleaner, easier and more safe to mount it within the kettle. Although heatsticks give you more flexibility by allowing it to be passed to different kettles.

I have issues like that with my sticks lately. The dang GFCI's are just too sensitive (which, I guess they need to be). I think it is an issue with steam somehow effecting the ground and setting it off.

My next order to BargainFittings will include some of those 1" hex nuts and washers. Time to start moving elements into keggles.
 
I prefer using heatsticks for a few reasons. I don't have to drill a hole in the side of a nice kettle. I think cleaning a heatstick is easier, not sure how you would be able to clean the bottom of the element when it is installed in a kettle. I also like to remove the heatstick at the end of the boil so that I can whirlpool.
 
I prefer using heatsticks for a few reasons. I don't have to drill a hole in the side of a nice kettle. I think cleaning a heatstick is easier, not sure how you would be able to clean the bottom of the element when it is installed in a kettle. I also like to remove the heatstick at the end of the boil so that I can whirlpool.

They definitely are more flexible in comparison to a mounted element. I just don't want to sacrifice safety for this flexibility and when my gfci is tripping consistently I get worried.
 
Daaaaang, elements require a BIG hole. I drilled until my arms got tired, and the hole is still a little too small.

I still have one more hole in my HLT, then I can start on the boil keggle.
 
I have issues like that with my sticks lately. The dang GFCI's are just too sensitive (which, I guess they need to be). I think it is an issue with steam somehow effecting the ground and setting it off.

It's not the ground causing you problems. The ground wire is litterally not connected to anything in a properly built system. You can bang on it with a hammer, piss on it, call it names, whatever you want, and it will never cause your GFI to pop.

The only reason the GFI would pop is because something is allowing current to escape from the hot-line of your power source. When the GFI sees that there is more current on the hot line than there is on the neutral line, it will kill the juice.
 
Daaaaang, elements require a BIG hole. I drilled until my arms got tired, and the hole is still a little too small.

I still have one more hole in my HLT, then I can start on the boil keggle.

They are a pain to drill. By far the hardest part of my 3 keggle build was drilling for the elements. I finally ditched the step bit and bought a bimetal hole saw which made quick work of it and gave me a clean cut. It was worth the ~$12 for me.
 
It's not the ground causing you problems. The ground wire is litterally not connected to anything in a properly built system. You can bang on it with a hammer, piss on it, call it names, whatever you want, and it will never cause your GFI to pop.

The only reason the GFI would pop is because something is allowing current to escape from the hot-line of your power source. When the GFI sees that there is more current on the hot line than there is on the neutral line, it will kill the juice.

I pulled the encapsulated element from that stick, and tried it in a pan of water, with the ground attached to the pan. It works fine, no trips. The hot and neutral connections are fully potted in JB weld.

I'm going to try mounting it in the keggle. If it trips the GFCI, I can just unscrew it and replace it....if I ever get the $&@#*&#$%@ holes drilled...
 
Daaaaang, elements require a BIG hole. I drilled until my arms got tired, and the hole is still a little too small.

I still have one more hole in my HLT, then I can start on the boil keggle.

I was right where you were about a week ago, except my corded 1/2" drill was smoking while I was trying to widen one hole, with still another to go. I was blaming my drill bits, etc.

What I learned was that I needed to use my cordless drill with a gear box. I dialed it down to first gear (has 1 and 2). This gave it the right power with the right speed. A little oil and really it never even got hot.

Honestly, took five minutes after that.

Here's a shot of the drill I used: IGNORE THE ARROW. IT'S THE 1 AND 2 SELECTOR SWITCH YOU WANT TO BE SURE TO PUT ON 1!
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IGNORE THE ARROW. IT'S THE 1 AND 2 SELECTOR SWITCH YOU WANT TO BE SURE TO PUT ON 1!
 
I originally used heatsticks, but then mounted them. I'm real happy with 2x 2000w elements for 6 gal batches. Don't think I'd do it any other way. Don't need a pid, don't need a ssr. Turn them both on, or 1 at a time. Easy peasy.

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I originally used heatsticks, but then mounted them. I'm real happy with 2x 2000w elements for 6 gal batches. Don't think I'd do it any other way. Don't need a pid, don't need a ssr. Turn them both on, or 1 at a time. Easy peasy.

Interesting how you positioned the elements. I'm thinking of placing them closer together. Once I get the first hole big enough, I'll screw the element in temporarily to see how to place the other.

My elements will be on the back of the keggle, my switched outlets are on the back of my stand, so the cords are out of the way.

Front:
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Close Up Front:
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Back:
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Is it safe to rest a copper immersion chiller on an element or do you need a false bottom to take the weight?
 
Is it safe to rest a copper immersion chiller on an element or do you need a false bottom to take the weight?

Mine rests on the element and I haven't had any issues, but it probably helps that (due to the way my coil is shaped), the bulk of the force is applied to the base of the element where it is most stable.

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Forgot to add...

if you make the top parts of the coil "J" shaped, you can hang it on the rim of the kettle for support instead of letting the weight fully rest on the element.
 
Is it safe to rest a copper immersion chiller on an element or do you need a false bottom to take the weight?

When you think about it, you only have the weight of the copper to worry about. It's not really that much weight.

This hasn't been an issue for me yet. I use heatsticks and removed them before using my IC. Now, I have a plate chiller, am mounting the elements in my HLT and BK, and am thinking of converting my IC coil to a HERMS coil. So, I might have to play around with this.
 
For those of you who've installed heating element(s) directly through the sides of your keggles/pots...how does this effect whirlpooling functionality?? Does the increased turbulence throw the whirlpool efficiency? If whirlpooling is effected...are there methods to account for this?
 
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