first HG beer (oktoberfest)

Hello everyone.

I just kegged my first high gravity 5.7% abv (at least for me) beer. It's an oktoberfest and I did a partial mash for this recipe. During fermentation I noticed the airlock (3 piece) was acting funny like no pressure was built up after the initial bubbles went away. I mean the piece inside the air lock went from touching the top to resting on the bottom. I just let things be and then after about 7 days transferred to a secondary.

After another 7 days I went to keg and noticed that I had some whitish circular spots on the top of the beer. Not sure if it was mold, but it didn't taste or smell to out of the ordinary.

After being in the keg for about 4 days I decided to have a taste. I was brewing a wheat beer at the time and I usually like to have some home brew in a glass while brewing some more!

The taste was kind of thick and slightly sweet. Not really sour and no bad smells. So I guess if it was mold then it didn't do anything to the beer.

My question is for higher gravity beer ~5.7% ABV is the thick slightly sweet taste normal?

Thanks in advance!

What was the final gravity?

I noticed that my Octoberfest Lager was sweeter than I expected it but I'm pretty sure it was finished. The FG was pretty low and stable.

jtvinny said:

What was the final gravity?

I noticed that my Octoberfest Lager was sweeter than I expected it but I'm pretty sure it was finished. The FG was pretty low and stable.

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I believe the starting gravity was ~ 1.062 and the final gravity was ~ 1.020

I think in any normal situation I would not have asked this question, but because of the "possible" contamination with the mold and the weird airlock situation I am slightly concerned.

I was at 1.020 gravity for almost 6 days, so it was going no where.

A piggy-back question: what was the intended FG compared to your FG?

physast said:

I believe the starting gravity was ~ 1.062 and the final gravity was ~ 1.020

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My Oktoberfest also stopped at 1.020 and was also on the sweet side.

In my case we diagnosed it down to mini-mashing too hot and creating unfermentable sugars that the yeast refused to eat, creating the sweeter flavor.

It's been lagering for 2 months and I'm not going to tap it for another month, so I'm hoping that'll give the remaining yeast time to make it taste yummy.

-Joe

flyangler18 said:

A piggy-back question: what was the intended FG compared to your FG?

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I am still in the newby stages of brewing and have never calculated an intended FG. I will look into this for future brews

In my case we diagnosed it down to mini-mashing too hot and creating unfermentable sugars that the yeast refused to eat, creating the sweeter flavor.

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I mashed at 153 F and maybe lost a degree or two by the end. I might have had my water too hot while sparging. I seem to recall 170 F but can't be sure till I check my notes.

physast said:

The taste was kind of thick and slightly sweet. Not really sour and no bad smells.

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If this is a true lager (as opposed to a pseudo-Oktoberfest with an ale yeast), I'm wondering if what you're detecting is diacetyl. Was it sort of slippery feeling?

I am still in the newby stages of brewing and have never calculated an intended FG. I will look into this for future brews

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Was this a recipe of your own making? If you used a published recipe, the FG is probably listed.

menschmaschine said:

If this is a true lager (as opposed to a pseudo-Oktoberfest with an ale yeast), I'm wondering if what you're detecting is diacetyl. Was it sort of slippery feeling?

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This is not a true lager. I used a slap pack yeast that came with the recipe. I am almost positive the directions seemed like an ale recipe. What is diacetyl?

Was this a recipe of your own making? If you used a published recipe, the FG is probably listed.

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This was a recipe purchased at Annapolis Home Brew in Annapolis, MD. They do not list the gravity for some reason, but they said the ABV should be around 7.0% for this beer where I got around 5.7%

I don't recall a slippery feeling, but maybe. Will have to try another pint tonight.

What would happen if I did use lager yeast, but did my fermentation at around 75 F? Maybe this is the cause for the thickness?

I do not have the yeast pack anymore, but I know the recipe is listed under the "lager" page on my LHBS website.

Lesson learned I suppose.

physast said:

What would happen if I did use lager yeast, but did my fermentation at around 75 F? Maybe this is the cause for the thickness?

I do not have the yeast pack anymore, but I know the recipe is listed under the "lager" page on my LHBS website.

Lesson learned I suppose.

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If it's listed under their lager page, it probably was a lager yeast. Perhaps call them and ask what yeast comes with that kit. If it was a lager yeast, you've probably got tons of diacetyl, esters, etc. in there. At best, it would be a steam beer.:cross:

Check this out for diacetyl: How to Brew - By John Palmer - Common Off-Flavors

Also, a good starter for lager brewing: How to Brew - By John Palmer - What is Different for Brewing Lager Beer?

menschmaschine said:

If it's listed under their lager page, it probably was a lager yeast. Perhaps call them and ask what yeast comes with that kit. If it was a lager yeast, you've probably got tons of diacetyl, esters, etc. in there. At best, it would be a steam beer.:cross:

Check this out for diacetyl: How to Brew - By John Palmer - Common Off-Flavors

Also, a good starter for lager brewing: How to Brew - By John Palmer - What is Different for Brewing Lager Beer?

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It doesn't taste bad. Any reason why I shouldn't keep it and drink it?

the yeast was Wyeast slap pack # 2633 (oktober fest)

physast said:

It doesn't taste bad. Any reason why I shouldn't keep it and drink it?

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NO! Don't do it! No reason at all. If it tastes good, then it's beer and why throw away beer?:cross:

menschmaschine said:

NO! Don't do it! No reason at all. If it tastes good, then it's beer and why throw away beer?:cross:

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This is why I like Brewing!

physast said:

the yeast was Wyeast slap pack # 2633 (oktober fest)

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Yeah, that's a lager yeast alright. If your beer tastes good, then there's nothing wrong with it. However, lager brewing has a few key differences from ale brewing, so it might be good to read up on it (if you've not already) for your next one. It will be even better.

You might consider lagering (assuming you have lagering capability) this for a good long time (like 10 weeks) to try to mellow out all the "off"-flavors produced during your high primary fermentation temps.

I just checked on the wyeast website and the temp range for that yeast is between 45 and 58 F

I am amazed that I even got 1.020 FG out of it. My fermentation temp maxed out at 76 F

It's already kegged.... Next time I will know better.

I am amazed that I even got 1.020 FG out of it. My fermentation temp maxed out at 76 F

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Yeast will ferment out of range, but you'll get all kinds of funky flavors (like diacetyl) when you go over the upper ranges.

physast said:

It's already kegged.... Next time I will know better.

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You can lager in the keg.

menschmaschine said:

You can lager in the keg.

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Ok you have my attention. How would I go about this? Right now I have CO2 hooked up to it and it's in my kegerator chilling at 38 F

Should I de-gas it and take it out to try and lager it at the appropriate temp?

I really do not have lagering capabilities so I might just drink it and have a lesson learned, if I can confirm tonight that the beer taste ok.

Thanks for all this info.

physast said:

Ok you have my attention. How would I go about this? Right now I have CO2 hooked up to it and it's in my kegerator chilling at 38 F

Should I de-gas it and take it out to try and lager it at the appropriate temp?

I really do not have lagering capabilities so I might just drink it and have a lesson learned, if I can confirm tonight that the beer taste ok.

Thanks for all this info.

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Well that's pretty much lagering. The temp could be a little lower, but 38 isn't too bad. Just leave it there for a long time. As far as the CO2, I'm not a kegger, so I don't know what to do/not to do for lagering in a keg (I just know you can do it). Perhaps someone else can chime in. If not, I'll check when I get home tonight. The book, New Brewing Lager Beer, talks about lagering under pressure.

You know a few weeks ago I accidently bought an oktoberfest lager kit, I made a post asking what to do since I can't really lager. Instead I just pitched ale yeast. It is still in the primary fermenter so it will be a while before I can taste it to compare, but I will keep this post in mind when that day comes. Like you said though, its tasty, no reason not to drink it.

Since no one whose lagered under pressure piped in, I checked out New Brewing Lager Beer. The only thing it says is that the keg needs to be fitted with a pressure relief valve. Since I've never kegged, that's as far as I can take you.

Well the keg would need a pressure relief valve because without one the CO2 could build to threshold pressures and rupture the keg. It does not really speak to the question of weather the beer being carbonated is an issue. That being said however I think that when lagering the beer would become carbonated before its pressure releive valve was activated, therefore similar to starting the lager already carbonated. So in my opinion I don't think you can do any harm to the beer by lagering it while carbonated. Sorry that it took so long for me to say that, one too many homebrews tonight.

In the keg, under CO2 is not quite lagering, you have removed it from the yeast bed on the bottom that helps clean up the yeast etc. Simple answer is what is done is done, what your doing now is conditioning the beer with an easy sampling system attached.
Start brewing your next batch +, and try to keep this one around for a while so you can notice/realize that time improves it so nicely. Or if you have another beer ready to go swap it out. In cases like this I buy another keg to teach myself patience and as a reminder to learn more.
Best of luck.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

In the keg, under CO2 is not quite lagering, you have removed it from the yeast bed on the bottom that helps clean up the yeast etc. Simple answer is what is done is done, what your doing now is conditioning the beer with an easy sampling system attached.

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There may be a misunderstanding here. He only took it out of primary so he's OK there. His keg becomes his lagering vessel. When making lagers, it is necessary to get the beer out of the primary as soon as primary fermentation/diacetyl rest is complete. It's the primary trub (or, "yeast bed") that can result in off-flavors if left on too long. In secondary (i.e., lagering), the beer still has plenty of yeast in suspension that forms a second yeast cake.