Creating an NA (Or...how I neutered my beer)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I'm really excited to hear back about this, because I'd like to do this for my dad, if I can get it below 0.5%ABV. It's a long shot, but it'd be worth it, just to be able to share my obsessive hobby with him!
 
Well research in non-ABV Beers, showed production facilities either do it one of two ways. They either do not ferment at all (which is what most Malzbeirs do) or reverse osmosis drain the beer, which is almost impossible with a heavy beer and why most NA are light beers. Couldn't find a one that use the boil method.

I see why, I either ended up with off tasting beer (The hops seem to be the culprit giving a stringent flavor when the Alcohol is boiled off)

Because it seems I pick up at least .05-.075 if you ferment condition.

That said, so far lowest ABV and best flavor occurred with Big Beers. In this case specifically Belgian Quads, something lots of added sugars.. I also only put the first hops in and not the second. During this phase.

The go to fermentation but only for a day or two. I.E. Say you have a OG of 1.080.. let it ferment down to 1.070-1.060.. This gives you a ABV of under 2%. So whatever your OG is, use a calculator to figure out what the FG is that you need to stay under 1-2%.

Then SLOWLY bring your boil to 190 ( at low heat ), once to 190 add your second set of hops and maintain 190 for about a 1/2 hour.

This gave me an authentic flavor and smell to the beer, and lowered it to negligible ABV.

Now this is why I haven't posted. I tried a number of ways to bottle condition and either ended up with bottle bombs (Which I had kind of guesses would happen) or relatively flat beer. If I had a way to force carb these I think they would be good.

Overall they taste good, but because they are flat its hard to get a real sense of the mouthfeel etc.. that said like Malzbier they will be sweeter than standard beer. That said the taste seems closer than any others I have tried without the metallic flavor that comes from the osmisis process, and the soda flavor that comes from no fermentation at all.

I have a couple of bottles that I am going to try in a few weeks that have no carbonation, but wanted to condition for flavor testing purposes.

I may soon have a rig for farce carbing using 20oz and 2L Plastic bottles. Then I will be better able to tell. Once I get the beer to be what I would like to drink I will send samples for proper testing.
 
Interesting, I'm curious to hear your results with that. I'd be concerned that with that much residual sugar taste would be off as well as the possibility for an infection.
 
I wouldn't and wont be worried abut infection.. as sugars shouldn't be any worse than a soda or something and they don't get infected if everything is clean. The "Flat" non-abv boiled wort does taste a bit sweet.. but still beer like, not too many off flavors though. I think a lot of that has to do with fermenting it a little. If you ferment all the way you tend to get more off flavors as there obviously there is more alcohol to try to burn off and the boiling obviously cooks the beer..
 
I wouldn't and wont be worried abut infection.. as sugars shouldn't be any worse than a soda or something and they don't get infected if everything is clean.

Sodas use plenty of preservatives for this.
 
I see why, I either ended up with off tasting beer (The hops seem to be the culprit giving a stringent flavor when the Alcohol is boiled off)

You might try brewing your beer without adding ANY hops, then re-boiling it for the full hour at full temps while adding the hops after it's finished primary. The double boil would give you a mature malt profile and an authentic hop bill.

I suspect you'd need to increase hop amounts somewhat, as the thickness of the malt plays a part in hop oil extraction.
 
Any luck getting the ABV results? My brother recently suffered a TBI (he's fine now; well as fine as you can be when your brain moves 7mm to the right) and he can't have any alchohol anymore. I'm hoping to brew him some NA beers but I need to be sure there is little to no alchohol left (doctor said something really low - no more then like 1% is fine).
 
Tried to neuter part of my Honey Porter batch for a good friend of mine who doesn't/can't tolerate alcohol but loves beer. I sprung for the White labs test, and just got my results back- failure. It reduced from 5.6%(calculated) to 5.45%(actual test%). I think I know where I goofed. My technique was to heat the gallon on the stove to 180*, then put it in the oven set on 170* for 1/2 hour. My guess is that the 170* setting may be even a lower temp. than stated. So, I'm going to try again with my next batch, 1st by checking the oven temp, then by raising the oven temp to 180*.
Interesting enough, when I checked the SG of the treated sample, it had only risen 2 points(1.016 vs. 1.014) which does fit with what the lab told me. So, I think I'm not going to shell out another $30, but will rely on the SG to tell me if I was successful.
 
Tried to neuter part of my Honey Porter batch for a good friend of mine who doesn't/can't tolerate alcohol but loves beer. I sprung for the White labs test, and just got my results back- failure. It reduced from 5.6%(calculated) to 5.45%(actual test%). I think I know where I goofed. My technique was to heat the gallon on the stove to 180*, then put it in the oven set on 170* for 1/2 hour. My guess is that the 170* setting may be even a lower temp. than stated. So, I'm going to try again with my next batch, 1st by checking the oven temp, then by raising the oven temp to 180*.
Interesting enough, when I checked the SG of the treated sample, it had only risen 2 points(1.016 vs. 1.014) which does fit with what the lab told me. So, I think I'm not going to shell out another $30, but will rely on the SG to tell me if I was successful.

Buy a refractometer. You can back-calculate (the theoretical) OG using a hydrometer AND refractometer FG measurement, then use that to calculate ABV.
 
This is a fascinating thread. We have this beer cheese dip we make, and SWMBO was too worried to bring it to a family picnic with children.

I wondered if boiling would work, but we just made another dip. :drunk:
 
This is a fascinating thread. We have this beer cheese dip we make, and SWMBO was too worried to bring it to a family picnic with children.

I wondered if boiling would work, but we just made another dip. :drunk:

And yet wine is used in sauces and no concern is had for the children when it is given that alcohol remains. Being childless, my opinion does not matter, but kids used to drink small beers and were okay. I am sure in moderation it will not injure your kids to have that small amount of alcohol from beer-cheese (which frankly sounds delicious). Maybe warn other parents that there is beer in there?

Looking back this is not being accusational. Just something I notice.
 
And yet wine is used in sauces and no concern is had for the children when it is given that alcohol remains. Being childless, my opinion does not matter, but kids used to drink small beers and were okay. I am sure in moderation it will not injure your kids to have that small amount of alcohol from beer-cheese (which frankly sounds delicious). Maybe warn other parents that there is beer in there?

Looking back this is not being accusational. Just something I notice.

And especially because it was 1/2 cup of beer in a lot of dip. But that 's not really the point I guess ;)
 
Awesome post, sparked lots of ideas...

I like where CDGoin was going with his method, a home method to maximize malt/beer flavor without getting rid of all aromatics or hop flavor or leaving too sweet.
So, here's my obviously overcomplicated thought for a modification on ideas so far:

For 5 gal-
Heated beer
Brew 2.5 gal of a very heavy but low alcohol beer 2-5 % ABV with NO hops, ferment to completion. Heat to approx 175-185ish 2-3 hours to remove as much alcohol as possible (alcohol and water are a positive azeotrope - should only become a problem when getting pure alcohol, not pure water, 3-4 hours at 180F should remove 99% of alcohol from beer depending on conditions)

Thinned Beer
Take above and add RO or distilled water to make 5Gal, cutting remaining ABV in half depending on previous boil time.

Use one of the above in place of water to brew very low gravity beer recipe (say normally 1-3% ABV ) and either stop ferment early (leaving somewhat sweet beer) or ferment to finish and heat again, this time with hop schedule as if brewing from scratch. (with adjustments for gravity/bitternes)

Force carb with Keg or maybe CO2 charger so no alcohol is added...

One or more rounds of thin beer, heated beer, use as base for more thin beer or use to cut higher ABV beer etc. rinse, repeat, add hops only at the very last boil - might give a fairly good "beer" with less than .5% ABV.
If someone had health issues and really wanted to put the time into brewing and blending, I think a "craft brew level" low alcohol beer could be done and then some!

FWIW, if it's an issue with a recovering Alcoholic, I have close friends in recovery - most people in recovery from alcohol consider even 1-2% alcohol as ALCOHOL... I just share other hobbies with them.
:D
 
Awesome post, sparked lots of ideas...

I like where CDGoin was going with his method, a home method to maximize malt/beer flavor without getting rid of all aromatics or hop flavor or leaving too sweet.
So, here's my obviously overcomplicated thought for a modification on ideas so far:

For 5 gal-
Heated beer
Brew 2.5 gal of a very heavy but low alcohol beer 2-5 % ABV with NO hops, ferment to completion. Heat to approx 175-185ish 2-3 hours to remove as much alcohol as possible (alcohol and water are a positive azeotrope - should only become a problem when getting pure alcohol, not pure water, 3-4 hours at 180F should remove 99% of alcohol from beer depending on conditions)

Thinned Beer
Take above and add RO or distilled water to make 5Gal, cutting remaining ABV in half depending on previous boil time.

Use one of the above in place of water to brew very low gravity beer recipe (say normally 1-3% ABV ) and either stop ferment early (leaving somewhat sweet beer) or ferment to finish and heat again, this time with hop schedule as if brewing from scratch. (with adjustments for gravity/bitternes)

Force carb with Keg or maybe CO2 charger so no alcohol is added...

One or more rounds of thin beer, heated beer, use as base for more thin beer or use to cut higher ABV beer etc. rinse, repeat, add hops only at the very last boil - might give a fairly good "beer" with less than .5% ABV.
If someone had health issues and really wanted to put the time into brewing and blending, I think a "craft brew level" low alcohol beer could be done and then some!

FWIW, if it's an issue with a recovering Alcoholic, I have close friends in recovery - most people in recovery from alcohol consider even 1-2% alcohol as ALCOHOL... I just share other hobbies with them.
:D

So, brewday, make the wort, boil with no hop additions at all just long enough to sanitize, ferment, put into pot, full boil with hop additions, keg, carb = very low abv beer. I wonder how much alcohol would be left after an hour boil. I also wonder how different the hop flavor/bitterness/mouthfeel would come across with the alcohol removed. It definitely would be heavier. I do not even drink NA beers but may consider a 1 gal batch of this method just because. Actual AVB may be determinable by OG/FG/post bittering FG but that math may be beyond me.

Cool thought.
 
Tried to neuter part of my Honey Porter batch for a good friend of mine who doesn't/can't tolerate alcohol but loves beer. I sprung for the White labs test, and just got my results back- failure. It reduced from 5.6%(calculated) to 5.45%(actual test%). I think I know where I goofed. My technique was to heat the gallon on the stove to 180*, then put it in the oven set on 170* for 1/2 hour. My guess is that the 170* setting may be even a lower temp. than stated. So, I'm going to try again with my next batch, 1st by checking the oven temp, then by raising the oven temp to 180*.
Interesting enough, when I checked the SG of the treated sample, it had only risen 2 points(1.016 vs. 1.014) which does fit with what the lab told me. So, I think I'm not going to shell out another $30, but will rely on the SG to tell me if I was successful.

I have now used this method with parts of 4 other batches to create a Christmas giftpack for my friend. The difference is that I check the temp of the beer in the oven and adjust the oven temp accordingly to keep it in the 170* range. Setting for my oven usually has to be 195-200 to keep the beer at proper temp. SG rises appropriately when completed.
I've neutered a Scotch ale, an Altbier, a Graf, and a Vienna lager. Better palates might be able to tell a difference in flavor between neutered and untouched, but I can't. I consider this a success. I would love to recheck with the Whitelabs kit, but I'm not shelling out another $35.
 
I wonder how much alcohol would be left after an hour boil. I also wonder how different the hop flavor/bitterness/mouthfeel would come across with the alcohol removed. It definitely would be heavier. I do not even drink NA beers but may consider a 1 gal batch of this method just because. Actual AVB may be determinable by OG/FG/post bittering FG but that math may be beyond me.

Cool thought.

Yeah, I've only had NA beers a hand full of times, but I like problem solving challenges!

Seems like the hops would be roughly the equivalent of the pre-fermented beer, though I haven't looked into hop chem as much as the rest of the brewing process, good point.


I have now used this method with parts of 4 other batches to create a Christmas giftpack for my friend. The difference is that I check the temp of the beer in the oven and adjust the oven temp accordingly to keep it in the 170* range. Setting for my oven usually has to be 195-200 to keep the beer at proper temp. SG rises appropriately when completed.
I've neutered a Scotch ale, an Altbier, a Graf, and a Vienna lager. Better palates might be able to tell a difference in flavor between neutered and untouched, but I can't. I consider this a success. I would love to recheck with the Whitelabs kit, but I'm not shelling out another $35.

I don't trust oven temps either, I use a $15 remote thermometer probe with temp alarm for normal brewing and baking - would use it for that purpose too...(good to 400+ deg F in oven)

May estimate ABV with calcs/hydro readings <del>(or try capturing the vapor and measuring volume on a test sample?)</del> (Measure volume of sample before and after ethanol boil off and compare side by side to unfermented wort boil off volume?)
If the mix were just water and ethanol, you could salt out the alcohol and measure it that way...

How did the SG readings come out OG/FG/after cooking?

I'm impressed with the taste consistency, especially after heating so long! Anything specific concerning hop flavor/aroma?

FWIW, I found several notes on alcohol evap from cooking food...beware the comments by people who say it can't cook off due to azeotropes, I'm not 100%, but I think they are mistaken

Cook-off Chart
Wikipedia
 
Interesting, but kinda like suckin a nipple thru a nightgown.

Haha thanks for the valuable input :p

FWIW, I found several notes on alcohol evap from cooking food...beware the comments by people who say it can't cook off due to azeotropes, I'm not 100%, but I think they are mistaken

Cook-off Chart
Wikipedia

I think we're on the same page. Of course it is a fact that due to the azeotrope, once you get to a certain point you can no longer purify via distillation. You have to turn to another method like filtration. It is true that this is only relevant when you're trying to increase ABV like when distilling spirits, like you mentioned, but my point in my previous post was that water and alcohol are much harder to separate completely than one might think. I didn't mean any confusion. Those are the same sources that I linked to, like I said before the takeaway is that more alcohol will remain than most of us realize.

I definitely think you have the right idea, so let me summarize it to give it more emphasis: start with a very low ABV beer, heat it for a long time (hours) and remember that in the end the ABV may still be too high for a recovering addict.

According to that published study, if you had your beer at a simmer (meaning close to 212 degrees, not 170 degrees) for a full hour, you'd have 25% of the alcohol remaining. Which is significant. Heating it to 170-180 for an hour probably won't reduce the alcohol by much, as JimRausch noticed with his lab test. Since you'll be losing water along with the alcohol, I wouldn't trust SG measurements.

We can look at the vapor/liquid behavior of ethanol/water mixtures for a little more guidance:
A 5% ABV beer is going to have 4% ABW. Assuming that the beer contains nothing but ethanol and water, that means you have a 1.6 mol% ethanol solution.

According to this chart, the boiling point of that mixture is going to be up around 206+ degrees F. And that when it does boil, the vapor that evaporates is only going to be around 12 mol% alcohol. Like I said before, the sugars in the beer mean that the boiling point will actually be even closer to 212, but we can assume no sugar here.

As the alcohol leaves the solution the boiling point increases, but the amount of alcohol in the vapor decreases as well. So you can see why you'd need to boil for a long time to get rid of most of the alcohol, since the amount that you're removing gets smaller as the amount of alcohol gets smaller. This is why you get diminishing returns in the simmering study:

Time (h) Alcohol retained
0.2576 40.0345%
0.5678 35.0453%
1.0678 25.0453%
1.579 20.0564%
2.045 10.0076%
2.55467 5.0000%

I just think more lab tests are needed. I really don't have a personal interest in this, I just think a $30 test is in order before giving one of these to a recovering alcoholic. If you bring your beer to a simmer (just under a boil) for a 2 full hours, you'll have 10% of the alcohol remaining. A 0.5% ABV beer might be enough to give a recovering addict a problem. Holding it at 170 isn't going to bring the alcohol down nearly as much.

Of course a vigorous 1-hour boil would get rid of a lot more alcohol than a 1-hour simmer, especially if you use a nice wide stockpot or pan with lots of surface area. Again, I'd want to spend $30 on a lab test just to be safe before giving it to someone I care about.
 
I can't vouch (or look it up from here), but I understand some major commercial bottled sodas have an ABV approaching 1%*. I think as you get down under that level it becomes truly difficult to drink it faster than you metabolize it. It stands to reason there's even an absolute floor as to what can get you drunk no matter how much you consume, given that intestinal absorption is limited by concentration. The math might change if you have a serious liver condition.

That said, be careful what you do to your friends and family on the basis of a theory, even a sound one.

I mentioned this in the jacking thread a while back, but can't you get alcohol content by calculating from the disparity between hydrometer and refractometer readings? Maybe there would be a scale/resolution problem that makes it impractical though, I don't have a refractometer so I can't test.

*(edit: Seems like that's a myth relating to 7-Up's very negligible alcohol content of around %0.05, I guess from ethanol as an extract solvent. The point's the same, though, at e.g. 1% I think you'd accumulate alcohol in your blood way less than half as fast as you would at 2% because it's about the net difference between absorption and the rate that you're metabolizing it off, so there is a floor that is not 0%)
 
Hey what about saleability of homemade NA? I bet it's a regulatory minefield but I bet there are states and counties where it's legal, at least on paper, just by virtue of an ABV threshold in the law.
 
What do you mean "before church".............. How could you sit through a sermon sober and survive? It's difficult to see the humor without a little "fortification".............. To think; some folks take the BS merchant seriously!!

H.W.

I wouldn't say this is completely NA, but I'd peg it no higher than 1.5 - 2%. I only held the kettle at 179 for 20 minutes. Another 15 minutes and I'm pretty sure I'd have driven off the remainder of the alcohol.

I'd say for my puposes, the experiment was a success. I lowered the ABV to miniscule levels and maintained a taste profile that was very close to the original commercial version.

All in, a very good (non) beer...in case you're thirsty for something before church.
View attachment 2768
 
If the pastor is solidly teaching from the word of God we sure do : )

"solidly teaching from the word of God" ........... I'd rather like to know what "the word of God" is........ Thus far in my nearly 60 years, I have only encountered the words of men who claim to be speaking for God........... If you could direct me to the actual "word of God", I'd genuinely appreciate it............. Clearly you know something I don't!!

H.W.
 
"solidly teaching from the word of God" ........... I'd rather like to know what "the word of God" is........ Thus far in my nearly 60 years, I have only encountered the words of men who claim to be speaking for God........... If you could direct me to the actual "word of God", I'd genuinely appreciate it............. Clearly you know something I don't!!



H.W.


Probably not the place for this...

But I'm glad I came across this thread! I have an uncle that doesn't drink alcohol but loves beer. I may just try experimenting a small batch someday! This should be fairly easy I think with an electric brewing set up. Just set your BK to 180 and let er buck for a bit
 
Probably not the place for this...

But I'm glad I came across this thread! I have an uncle that doesn't drink alcohol but loves beer. I may just try experimenting a small batch someday! This should be fairly easy I think with an electric brewing set up. Just set your BK to 180 and let er buck for a bit

Pretty easy...... The temp will hold steady if your heat is not excessive at the boiling stages of the various alcohols. I suspect that a circulation pump would make a significant improvement in the process........

I agree that religion does not need to be a topic here....... sorry, but I get a bit hostile when folks presume to ............. well, let's just drop it.


H.W.
 
Since this thread has been resurrected a bit, has anyone solved the problem of carbonating NA beer outside of kegging?

I thought of pitching a new batch of yeast into a small amount of unfermented wort and adding it to each bottle with one of those corn sugar capsules so I don't get bottle bombs.

I drink and love craft beer but I'm limited to the number I drink otherwise I would get drunk. I'd love to go fishing and be able to down a six pack or so.
 
Since this thread has been resurrected a bit, has anyone solved the problem of carbonating NA beer outside of kegging?

I thought of pitching a new batch of yeast into a small amount of unfermented wort and adding it to each bottle with one of those corn sugar capsules so I don't get bottle bombs.

I drink and love craft beer but I'm limited to the number I drink otherwise I would get drunk. I'd love to go fishing and be able to down a six pack or so.

It's not a problem. When I neuter part of a batch I prime the whole batch before drawing off 1 gallon to heat up. After it's finished with the heating process, I cool it down and add about 1/4 packet of rehydrated dry yeast before bottling. Has worked every time.
 
This thread is very interesting to me because SWMBO went on the wagon for health reasons and sometimes it has become a point of contention that she cannot have a "good" beer while I literally have gallons of it in the house on any given afternoon. Soooo....thanks for digging it up and making it easy to find.:mug:

A couple of points... first about azeotropes. Rather than go up into the attic to dig up my old Organic Chemistry textbook, the Wikipedia entry is correct and relatively infomative. You might find this interesting:

Ethanol boils at 78.4 °C, water boils at 100 °C, but the azeotrope boils at 78.2 °C, which is lower than either of its constituents.

If two solvents can form a positive azeotrope, then distillation of any mixture of those constituents will result in the distillate being closer in composition to the azeotrope than the starting mixture. For example, if a 50/50 mixture of ethanol and water is distilled once, the distillate will be 80% ethanol and 20% water, which is closer to the azeotropic mixture than the original. Distilling the 80/20% mixture produces a distillate that is 87% ethanol and 13% water.

Further repeated distillations will produce mixtures that are progressively closer to the azeotropic ratio of 95.5/4.5%. No number of distillations will ever result in a distillate that exceeds the azeotropic ratio.
Likewise, when distilling a mixture of ethanol and water that is richer in ethanol than the azeotrope, the distillate (contrary to intuition) will be poorer in ethanol than the original but slightly richer than the azeotrope. This means the solution left behind will be richer in ethanol.


Clearly, azeotropes are an issue if you plan to par-boil your finished beer in order to eliminate the alcohol. You'll get most all of it, but never get quite all of it. (BTW, this is why it's impossible to buy anything higher than 190 proof liquor.)

Regarding the discussion about carbonation, I'd just sticking with kegging and bottling, because you're going to create more alcohol (albeit a small amount) by bottle conditioning.

I realize that's easy for me to say, as I already have the setup -- kegs, a good beer gun, etc. but at the same time, it seems two steps forward and one step back.

Not much, I admit, but that's my two cents into this great discussion.
 
Clearly, azeotropes are an issue if you plan to par-boil your finished beer in order to eliminate the alcohol. You'll get most all of it, but never get quite all of it. (BTW, this is why it's impossible to buy anything higher than 190 proof liquor.)
The way you've written this makes it sound like you're saying that you can't ever remove all the alcohol from the solution. Except for a trace amount, all the alcohol should be driven out of the beer.

The distillate can't ever get higher than the ethanol-water azeotropic ratio of 95%, but we don't care about that part.
 
I recently did a similar test with a SMASH blonde ale. One thing I noticed that you didn't take into account was the boil burning off the hop aroma. I added an additional 1oz of hops in the last 5 minutes of the boil to hopefully get a little of that back. My goal is to come up with a solid non-alcoholic recipe to keep on tap, I love my beer but I don't always want to be jammed up to enjoy it especially if I am on call for work.

My local brew shop does not carry hop extract but some reading has shown that is used in a lot of non-alcoholic recipes.

From my first non-alcoholic batch it still doesn't leave me with that wow this is amazing taste so I will need to do more tweaking. Over all clean crisp taste but personally I think I will need to do it with more of a wheat beer or something a little maltier. Needs bigger bolder flavours to stand out.

I don't know if you have tried any of the krombacher non- alco beers but that is what I personally am striving for. If you are going to try a few more attempts at the non-alcoholic brew keep us posted love to hear how it turns out.
 
I recently performed an experiment that didn't bode well so I'm glad to see that some are having success. I heated a couple of gallons of fermented beer (a light lager) to 180 degrees and kept it there for 40 minutes. I detected no alcohol odor and after cooling both the hydrometer and refractometer reading showed ZERO change. The flavor didn't change much, either (though I haven't yet carbed it to see how it really tastes). I'll try it again with a much longer heating period the next time I have an expendable light wort to play with. I suppose I could just give this batch another hit.
 
Hi!

I'm a homebrewer that recently went to the darkside of the brew: total abstinence. Short story is my brew was just plain too good and I couldnt have enough.

So I want to give this a try with fairly small beers (4-6% abv). After reading through the whole thread, I see though that there seems to be mixed results here.

I wonder how would one measure abv post-fermentation (and alcohol evaporation) to ensure one's product is safe to drink for a recovering alcoholic like me who considers 1-2% beers NA. I've read about the hydrometer-refractometer method, but I wonder which formula/calculator people use?
 
Its not really conducive with being a recovering alcoholic, but you could always capture and condense what evaporates off (i.e. cook it in a still) and test it to see what ABV the condensate is. Do the math and you'd have an idea, but I wouldn't think it would be terrjbly accurate).

As for hit-or-miss, I have to wonder if the misses are just getting insufficient evaporation to happen, such as cooking it in a covered pot.
 
So I tried it out with a 3% abv beer. According to the hydrometer and refractometer method and using Barth and Race's equation (found at FermCalc ), I measured an abv of 1-2%, accounting for measurement errors. The formula is very sensitive to dara variations at these abv. It seems to be the most effective, as Gross assured me that someone tested it with a large sample.

I took measures two times, at 30 min. and at 60 min. They were the same.

I kept half the batch for comparison purposes and will have someone test it and the RA (reduced alcohol).

I will also conduct another experiment with a higher abv beer.

Cheers!
 
It's not a problem. When I neuter part of a batch I prime the whole batch before drawing off 1 gallon to heat up. After it's finished with the heating process, I cool it down and add about 1/4 packet of rehydrated dry yeast before bottling. Has worked every time.


What do you mean when you say you draw off 1 gallon to heat up? Do you mean you're only neutering a single gallon and then adding it back to the back batch? Or do you mean that you take off 1 gallon, neuter it, and then add 1/4 pack of rehydrated yeast to that single gallon before bottling? Would you add a full pack of yeast if you were neutering the entire batch. I'm asking because I don't have kegs and I don't want to end up with bottle bombs here by adding too much yeast at the end.
 
Sorry jovis for the delay answering.
When I've done it, I have just neutered part of a batch for a friend.
It takes just a little yeast to prime for bottle carbonation, so I think it would be fine to use just 1/4- 1/2 packet for even a full 5G batch. That's how much I've used in the past when reyeasting after a long, semi-frozen lagered Doublebock.
Edit- Oh and remember- bottle bombs are not caused by too much yeast but by too much fermentable sugars. Whatever number of yeast you add, they will multiply in the bottle to their optimal number, then munch through whatever sugars you provide. Then settle out.
 
Can anyone confirm if the gravity of the beer after the alcohol is boiled off should be substantially different from the gravity before cooking but after fermenting? I just made a batch, figured I would see a gravity difference but did not. But maybe the change in density from a 5% alcohol solution to <0.5% isn't substantial enough to be easily read from a common triple scale hydrometer. This is meant to be for my boss's pregnant wife to drink at an upcoming party, so I really want to make sure I didn't do something wrong.

(I followed the same general instructions as the original post, but with different equipment for a smaller batch. Mine was at around 175F for 30 minutes.)
 
Hydrometers are commonly used to measure much smaller changes in alcohol content than that. They are how we determine how much alcohol was generated during fermentation. If the alcohol is removed, the gravity should be back up to where it was before fermentation. If you don't have the original gravity figure available, there are other ways.

If the alcohol is gone, a refractometer should agree with a hydrometer so that would be a quick and easy test. If they still disagree (as they should in the presence of alcohol), I believe the alcohol is still in there. In my experiment, neither reading changed so I am confident that none was removed.
 
Hydrometers are commonly used to measure much smaller changes in alcohol content than that. They are how we determine how much alcohol was generated during fermentation. If the alcohol is removed, the gravity should be back up to where it was before fermentation. If you don't have the original gravity figure available, there are other ways.

If the alcohol is gone, a refractometer should agree with a hydrometer so that would be a quick and easy test. If they still disagree (as they should in the presence of alcohol), I believe the alcohol is still in there. In my experiment, neither reading changed so I am confident that none was removed.

I am not so sure about this. By boiling off alcohol, the SG should go up, yes, but it should not go back up to the starting gravity as sugars have been broken down and turned into alcohol which you then would have removed. I am guessing that from there the SG should be somewhere in the middle of starting and finishing gravity (so long as volume stays consistent). Unfortunately this is a job for math.

Here is my assumption on figuring all this out, I am working off the cuff here.
Normal math for figuring out alcohol content of beer.
ABV = (og &#8211; fg) * 131.25
This should be how much alcohol is in the pre-neutered beer
<Neuter beer>
take specific gravity after it cools back to measurable temperature

now you have to figure out how many gravity points that your beer changed in the neutering process. Probably the best way is to determine the volume change from the process and add add in that much water to make the volumes even to come up with the new final specific gravity at the same volume. This should allow you to figure out how much the gravity actually changed. Then put this value in as the final gravity and calculate the ABV.

I am sure that you will find that the ABV has dropped, though I am unsure how much you will get out of it.

Then again I may be way off. And I welcome someone to let me know if I am because I do not want to give out bad information.
 
I am not so sure about this. By boiling off alcohol, the SG should go up, yes, but it should not go back up to the starting gravity as sugars have been broken down and turned into alcohol which you then would have removed. I am guessing that from there the SG should be somewhere in the middle of starting and finishing gravity (so long as volume stays consistent). Unfortunately this is a job for math.

Here is my assumption on figuring all this out, I am working off the cuff here.
Normal math for figuring out alcohol content of beer.
ABV = (og – fg) * 131.25
This should be how much alcohol is in the pre-neutered beer
<Neuter beer>
take specific gravity after it cools back to measurable temperature

now you have to figure out how many gravity points that your beer changed in the neutering process. Probably the best way is to determine the volume change from the process and add add in that much water to make the volumes even to come up with the new final specific gravity at the same volume. This should allow you to figure out how much the gravity actually changed. Then put this value in as the final gravity and calculate the ABV.

I am sure that you will find that the ABV has dropped, though I am unsure how much you will get out of it.

Then again I may be way off. And I welcome someone to let me know if I am because I do not want to give out bad information.

No, you're correct. We use gravity measurements to measure the drop in sugar more than the increase in alcohol. There is some change in density, hence we're measuring apparent attenuation rather than actual attenuation, but the density change won't be much during the "neutering", and will be complicated by any water evaporated during the process. As someone else mentioned, the way to be sure if you don't want to pay for a test is to condense the vapor and measure that. Boiling off alcohol will not make additional sugar to raise the gravity.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top