Partial Mash for a Wheat Beer?

Not exactly a newb brewer, but the first time I'm trying this...

I've done partial mash brewing for the last few years, but never with a wheat beer. What kind of grains do you use in a partial mash for a wheat beer? Obviously, you'd use 2-row pale malt, but do you use wheat malt, torrified wheat? What's the difference? What's the ratio? I'm starting trial brews for my sister-in-law's wedding and she definitely wants a summer-y wheat beer.

Thanks!

Wheat beers are generally made up of one-half to two-thirds wheat malt with the remainder typically 2-row, with some noble hops and a BU:GU ratio somewhere around 0.35. Apart from that basic outline, some people add raw wheat to give it a little more grainy flavor, maybe some torrified wheat to assist with head retention, and then maybe a touch of aromatic or light crystal malt.

The trickiness would be that the extract part of your recipe and the mash part have to hit the right ratio together. Wheat extract is a combo of wheat and pale, so your mash would be a combo as well (50/50 works). If you use non-wheat extract, you'd have to use more wheat in the mash. I would use wheat extract for that part, and both 2-row and wheat malt.

So if I took an extract recipe that just used 6lbs of 55/45 wheat DME, and wanted to make a partial mash version, I would need to make sure the partial mash had equal parts 2-row and wheat malts? Are there any specialty malts that would add a nice flavor/character/texture that I could add? I saw a recipe that also had 8oz. of cara-pils in the mix, too.

Thanks!

Carapils is really just added for a little more body and head retention. It won't add any noticeable flavor. To be honest, most wheat recipes are very simple and often contain little more than 2-row, wheat or rye, and maybe a touch of a little something extra. So, I wouldn't get too adventurous with a lot of specialty grains. A quarter or half pound of an aromatic malt, crystal 20L, or maybe some Vienna if anything.

And you didn't mention if you're doing more of a hefe or an american wheat. One of the biggest flavor components will be from the type of yeast used.

I guess it's more of a hefe. It's for a lemon-coriander weiss. I'm trying to just use the most basic ingredients--wheat dme, 1 oz. saaz pellet hops, weihenstephan yeast and then the coriander and lemon in the secondary. It's from a recipe book that's given me problems in the past, but I thought keeping it simple might help for the first try of the recipe.

A German "Hefe Weizen" is a wheat/barley mix of 50/50 to 70/30%, any combination of Hallertau, Spalt or Tettnanger hops, and a German Hefe Weizen yeast. Nothing else. Very simple.

When you add lemon and corianer to the above it is no longer a HW but a conglomeration of something else altogether.

If you're going to add coriander and lemon to change the flavors of a HW why waste the time and effort of making a HW in the first place?

Just make an American Wheat beer and flavor it...

Sorry, I had to get it off my chest...one of my pet peeves...

I hear you, and understand...just following the recipe for now. It's something that looked good to my sister-in-law, so I'm giving it a try. It did seem strange to me that it would use hefe yeast, but do something to it more akin to an American Wheat.

Any suggestions if I try it again, American style? Are the wheat/barley ratios different?

Thanks!

brackbrew said:

Any suggestions if I try it again, American style? Are the wheat/barley ratios different?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

There really isn't a difference in terms of grain bills between to the two styles and it is more or less the yeast. A hefe may use german malts instead of american malts, and an american wheat might add a little rye or something, but the real difference comes from the yeast. Some american versions go a little heavier on the hops whereas a german hefe really strives to bring the flavors from the yeast out with little hop presence.

A hefe relies on the esters and phenols produced by the hefe yeast, whereas an american wheat typically relies on a very crisp and clean fermenting yeast that doesn't display many of the flavors of a hefe. And when you get into commercial styles, the american version is often filtered while a hefe is meant to be cloudy and contain yeast.

brackbrew said:

I hear you, and understand...just following the recipe for now. It's something that looked good to my sister-in-law, so I'm giving it a try. It did seem strange to me that it would use hefe yeast, but do something to it more akin to an American Wheat.

Any suggestions if I try it again, American style? Are the wheat/barley ratios different?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I second what marubozo said.

If she wants the lemon and coriander...the bride gets what the bride wants...

Basically, you can use the recipe you have just change out the hops and yeast.

If you need help...we're here for that too...:rockin:

The yeast I can figure out, what kind/amount of hops would you recommend? I'm brewing this thing tomorrow and already made the yeast starter, so let's plan for the future.

But is the frankenstein I'm making tomorrow going to be a disaster, or just an abomination to hefe fans?

brackbrew said:

The yeast I can figure out, what kind/amount of hops would you recommend? I'm brewing this thing tomorrow and already made the yeast starter, so let's plan for the future.

But is the frankenstein I'm making tomorrow going to be a disaster, or just an abomination to hefe fans?

Click to expand...

Most wheats are going to use noble hops (saaz, spalt, tettnang, and hallertau) regardless of style because of their great flavor and aroma characteristics vs. bittering. Occasionally an american version might use a more citrusy hop for something different, but a hefe will not. It's hard to say an exact amount because you need to know the AAU of you rhops, the gravity, etc. But that's why the style reflects it as a ratio. It calls for something around 0.35 BU:GU (bitterness units to gravity).

Your beer may be a bit abnormal, but for those who don't know what a hefe or american wheat, or a wit is actually supposed to taste like, as long as it tastes good to them they shouldn't mind. Just don't give it to an avid beer drinker and tell him it's a hefe, since they will clearly call you out on it

I'd highly recommend picking up a copy of the book "Designing Great Beers" as it gives you a comprehensive background on the major beer styles, what typically goes into them, etc. So you can take any recipe you find and compare it with the style and see how close it is, what you can add or subtract to keep it within style, etc.

Right...what marubozo said (again)... It'll taste good either way...wheat beers (in general)...you either like them of not...I don't think there's any middle of the road for them.

When's the wedding?

I've been searching (since my last post) for some Wheat/lemon/coriander recipes for you. I found this kit:

Lemon Coriander Weiss w/ Danstar Munich dry yeast
Lemon Coriander Weiss: This recipe will satisfy your homebrew desires anytime of the year. The addition of coriander and zest of a lemon during secondary fermentation give this wheat beer an awesome flavor. Light and crisp taste. Our ingredients for this recipe include 6 lb. Wheat liquid malt extract, 3.3 lb. Pilsen liquid malt extract, 8 oz. Carapils specialty grains, 2 oz. of U.S. Saaz hops, 1 tbsp. crushed Coriander, yeast, priming sugar and a grain bag. Lemon not included.


If you use Cascade hops they'll add to the citrusy flavor also. But that really doesn't help you with grain ratios.

How many pounds of grain do you usually mash? And are you doing full boils?


This is a great recipe site: http://beerrecipes.org/ but there are no PM Wheat beers using lemon and coriander in there...I checked.

For later reading...here's also an article from BYO on wheat beers:

http://***********/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/1645-wheats-of-the-world

The wedding is not until this weekend, NEXT summer. I'm trying to calibrate the recipes now and repeat them a few times to make sure I don't mess anything.

Right now, I'm only equipped to do a partial mash, so I usually mash between 2.5-3.5 of base malt and specialty malts (if they're supposed to mashed) combined. I do use a full-wort boil.

This specific recipe I'm doing very basic, all-extract, just to see what it's going to do.

Maybe that's not the right way to approach this, but I'm wary of the book from which this recipe came. It's led me astray more than once, and I don't feel confident enough to look at a recipe and know what to do to enhance it. Pretty pathetic, since I've been brewing on and off for almost 10 years...

Thanks for all your help

Next year?? OK, great. We can definitely come up with something before then...what's the name of the book where you found the recipe?

"The Homebrewer's Recipe Guide" by Patrick Higgins, Maura Kate Kilgore and Paul Hertlein.

When I bought it, I had high hopes because Papazian wrote the foreword. This is the only source that I've had consistently bad results with, so I don't necessarily think it's a technique issue with me.

I'd love to make this a learning experience for me and help in formulating the recipe, if possible. I want to be able to give her something original and become a better brewer at the same time!

Thanks again!

Got it...page 114...

I'll give it some thought based on your mashing capabilities and get back to you. If you used all Wheat DME you'd be in the ballpark. I may want to do this one myself.

You definitely do NOT want to use LME for a light colored brew...and they're using 6 lbs LME and 3 lbs DME?

I'm going to log off and work some numbers for you. I'll get back with something TONIGHT...


Mr. Steve's is closed on Mondays isn't he?

I didn't follow their "extract bill" at all. I kept the hops, the yeast, the stuff for the secondary, but am using 6lbs. of Munton's Wheat DME, which is a 55/45 wheat/barley ratio.

Mr. Steve's Lancaster store is open 12-7 tomorrow, I believe...

OK. Right. Their extract bill is 9 lbs LME...wow!!! So much for "light and refreshing"...

I looked through a lot of other Weizen recipes and they average about 6 to 6.6 lbs of DME (10 to 10 lbs 9.6 oz of grain)...so I made this recipe using 6 lbs for 5.25 gals. since she wants it light and summery...

What % are the hops?

I figured 5 AAUs for bittering is more than enough. No flavor or aroma hops are needed since you want the lemon and coriander to step out a bit.

Incidentally, I used to (don't really do all extract any more) use 6 lbs Wheat DME for my DME recipes also. But only 3-3.5 AAUs for my HWs since I like them sweeter.

You said you can mash up to 3.5 lbs of grain so I went with:

2 lbs Wheat
1.5 lbs Pale

You can mash that in 4 qts water at 155F for 60 mins and sparge with 1 qt 170F water. Then top off to 5.5 gals. if you're doing a full boil.

This leaves about 4 lbs of DME equivilant still needed.

This can be either 4 lbs Wheat DME or 3 lbs Wheat DME and 1 lb Extra Light DME. Add the DME to dissolve it.

At boil, add the hops and start the timer for 60 mins.

Follow the rest of the recipe.

Are you kegging?