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Yooper said:
I must be totally clueless here, but how does doing a two-stage fermentation mean less racking losses? I'm a winemaker, and each time I rack I experience racking losses because it's impossible (even with no lees on the bottom at all) to get every less drop out. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to do a primary only, with a highly flocculant yeast, and then leave it there for 2-3 weeks and crash cool before racking?

I guess I'm just not understanding how adding another racking can mean less racking losses.
Click to expand...

Here's the theory, and that's all it is.

I can rack to secondary, and squeeze the last drop out of the primary, knowing that I will get more trub than I really want, and then wait a few days to a week, and bottle.

The theory is that all the junk will fall to the bottom, but the layer of trub will be much, much, smaller, so when I rack to the bottling bucket I get more.

It's a theory to test. So is a good long primary, and probably a few more that I haven't come up with yet.

The bottom line is that if I can increase my yield by a pint I get another bottle, and to me that's worth figuring out.

Besides, what kind of home brewer would I be if I weren't obsessing over something.
 
dadshomebrewing said:
I can rack to secondary, and squeeze the last drop out of the primary, knowing that I will get more trub than I really want, and then wait a few days to a week, and bottle.
Click to expand...

I sort of see what you're saying. But then comes another question about this step- how do you propose to squeeze the last drop out of primary, without oxidizing the beer? I don't get how that would work.
 
Haven't got that far yet.

I'm still ticked that I'm losing so much beer out of a one gallon batch.

I'm going to figure this out.
 
dadshomebrewing said:
Haven't got that far yet.

I'm still ticked that I'm losing so much beer out of a one gallon batch.

I'm going to figure this out.
Click to expand...

Why not just scale your recipes to 1.1 gallons. if you are using buckets throw it all in and you will have made up for trub loss. If using jugs just leave trub behind.

Rasing recipe .1 only decreases og .001 or .002
 
I typically get 8 or 9 bottles from a batch fermented in a one-gallon glass jug. I like the idea of scaling the recipe up a bit and then trying to leave behind as much of the trub in the brew kettle as possible. Leaving the trub behind, though, is the hard part; anybody have any tips on how to do that when transferring from a 12 qt kettle?
 
I'm feeling rather inspired by the concept of brewing smaller batches since my list of what I want to brew keeps getting longer. Up til now I've been doing 5 gallon batches. I'm going for a 5.5 litre batch (will give me 8 small bottles and 4 large bottles) of Belgian Blonde and mashing 4.5lbs of grain in a muslin bag that's sitting in a large SS straining pot placed inside my 14 litre SS pot.
Kinda nice being able to do it all on the stovetop instead of sitting outside in the cold doing a 5 gallon batch.
 
dadshomebrewing said:
Haven't got that far yet.

I'm still ticked that I'm losing so much beer out of a one gallon batch.

I'm going to figure this out.
Click to expand...

Dads...I think until you scale up your recipes you'll only get 8 to 9 bottles out of the 1-gallon carboys. I had the same problem when I did bigger batches. For example, I would only get 45 bottles out of a 5-gallon batch or 22 bottles out of a 2.5 gallon batch...so I would scale up the recipes to 5.5 gallons and 2.75 gallons respectively.

Could you possibly brew a 2-gallon batch and split the wort between 2 of the 1-galllons carboys???
 
HopHoarder said:
I'm feeling rather inspired by the concept of brewing smaller batches since my list of what I want to brew keeps getting longer. Up til now I've been doing 5 gallon batches. I'm going for a 5.5 litre batch (will give me 8 small bottles and 4 large bottles) of Belgian Blonde and mashing 4.5lbs of grain in a muslin bag that's sitting in a large SS straining pot placed inside my 14 litre SS pot.
Kinda nice being able to do it all on the stovetop instead of sitting outside in the cold doing a 5 gallon batch.
Click to expand...

Welcome...
 
ZedBrewer said:
I typically get 8 or 9 bottles from a batch fermented in a one-gallon glass jug. I like the idea of scaling the recipe up a bit and then trying to leave behind as much of the trub in the brew kettle as possible. Leaving the trub behind, though, is the hard part; anybody have any tips on how to do that when transferring from a 12 qt kettle?
Click to expand...

You could rack from the kettle to your fermenter....I've been pouring from the kettle right into the fermenter...I pour slowly, trying to leave as much trub behind.
 
I've gotten 10 bottles out of a 1 gallon batch, but only if I'm willing to drink a lot of the trub.

IMO, you just aren't going to get more then 9 good bottles out of a 1 gallon batch.

1 gallon = 128 oz, or 10 2/3 bottles. After deducting for trub and actual volume differences for headspace, I just don't think you have the liquid volume.
 
Sometimes I'll get enough grain to make 1.5 gallons of beer and make 1 gallon of wort... and then when I bottle I'll dissolve the priming sugar in a half-gallon of water. So far I haven't gotten a beer that tasted watered down that way.
 
ReaderRabbit said:
Sometimes I'll get enough grain to make 1.5 gallons of beer and make 1 gallon of wort... and then when I bottle I'll dissolve the priming sugar in a half-gallon of water. So far I haven't gotten a beer that tasted watered down that way.
Click to expand...

I would think this would favor sweeter beers as your attenuation should suffer.
 
I just finished brewing a belgian blonde. Pretty much got my target amount of wort (6.5 litres) but my target O.G. was just 1.066 instead of 1.072 according to Beersmith. I had the grains in a muslin bag suspended by a large SS colander in the kettle. I "sparged" the wort between two 14litre pots pouring the wort over the suspended grain bag 5 times before bringing it all to a boil. I guess the bag system isn't as efficient as a mash tun so I'll just build myself a mini mash tun as my 48qt tun is too big for these small batches.
 
dadshomebrewing said:
Here's the theory, and that's all it is.

I can rack to secondary, and squeeze the last drop out of the primary, knowing that I will get more trub than I really want, and then wait a few days to a week, and bottle.

The theory is that all the junk will fall to the bottom, but the layer of trub will be much, much, smaller, so when I rack to the bottling bucket I get more.

It's a theory to test. So is a good long primary, and probably a few more that I haven't come up with yet.

The bottom line is that if I can increase my yield by a pint I get another bottle, and to me that's worth figuring out.

Besides, what kind of home brewer would I be if I weren't obsessing over something.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I rack from the middle to start my siphon but at the very end the black part of the siphon is in the trub and it is tilted. I literally get almost all the beer along with some trub. Dry hop for a week to let things settle then cold crash and you can basically do the same thing again but get no trub.

I'm not saying you get MORE beer this way, but maybe you leave LESS beer in the carboys if that makes sense. I'm getting at least 9 1/2 bottles consistently, and if I add a little more to my water for my priming, I get my tenth. 10 beers out of a possible 10 2/3 is something I am happy with considering trub loss
 
HopHoarder said:
I just finished brewing a belgian blonde. Pretty much got my target amount of wort (6.5 litres) but my target O.G. was just 1.066 instead of 1.072 according to Beersmith. I had the grains in a muslin bag suspended by a large SS colander in the kettle. I "sparged" the wort between two 14litre pots pouring the wort over the suspended grain bag 5 times before bringing it all to a boil. I guess the bag system isn't as efficient as a mash tun so I'll just build myself a mini mash tun as my 48qt tun is too big for these small batches.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you may consider not as efficient but my last 2 BIAB SMaSH's I got 85% and 83% efficiencies and I didn't sparge just mashed in my volume of water.

1. Are you grinding your grains fine enough?
2. Are you squeezing/pressing the daylights out of the bag?

When I sparge, I dunk the whole bag into the sparge pot, open the bag and stir. Wait 10 minutes then place the bag in a colander and squeeze it as much as I can.

So far, I've ended with higher OG than expected.
 
Calichusetts said:
This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I rack from the middle to start my siphon but at the very end the black part of the siphon is in the trub and it is tilted. I literally get almost all the beer along with some trub. Dry hop for a week to let things settle then cold crash and you can basically do the same thing again but get no trub.

I'm not saying you get MORE beer this way, but maybe you leave LESS beer in the carboys if that makes sense. I'm getting at least 9 1/2 bottles consistently, and if I add a little more to my water for my priming, I get my tenth. 10 beers out of a possible 10 2/3 is something I am happy with considering trub loss
Click to expand...

makes perfect sense to me... i know exactly what you are talking about.

btw... there is one EASY way for me to get more bottles of beer out of a batch.

i can switch from pint "clip top" bottles, to 12 oz bottles with caps.

:)
 
BigRock947 said:
I don't know what you may consider not as efficient but my last 2 BIAB SMaSH's I got 85% and 83% efficiencies and I didn't sparge just mashed in my volume of water.

1. Are you grinding your grains fine enough?
2. Are you squeezing/pressing the daylights out of the bag?

When I sparge, I dunk the whole bag into the sparge pot, open the bag and stir. Wait 10 minutes then place the bag in a colander and squeeze it as much as I can.

So far, I've ended with higher OG than expected.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean big rock. I am consistently mid 80's in efficiency. I have learned that I really like a 1.6 to 1.75 gallon batch. I end up with a 12 pack, I can easily split my hops in about a third and I can use 2-3 gallon buckets with room. When I am done with my boil, I filter through a paint strainer to get as much trub as possible out of the wort. It seems to be pretty consistent and the consistency is all I think that is important for me.
 
BigRock947 said:
I don't know what you may consider not as efficient but my last 2 BIAB SMaSH's I got 85% and 83% efficiencies and I didn't sparge just mashed in my volume of water.

1. Are you grinding your grains fine enough?
2. Are you squeezing/pressing the daylights out of the bag?

When I sparge, I dunk the whole bag into the sparge pot, open the bag and stir. Wait 10 minutes then place the bag in a colander and squeeze it as much as I can.

So far, I've ended with higher OG than expected.
Click to expand...

I did the exact same thing with my last BIAB one gallon batch, and I got an intense amount of trub in the fermenter. I tried to strain the wort as I poured in to the fermenter, but it was so thick it clogged the strainer. I decided to dump it all in, trub and all. I only ended up with 8 @ 12oz this way, so the other night I built a mini (2gal) MLT. I hope to try it out in the next few days...
 
I think next time I'm going to go with a bigger bag as I believe that may have been part of the problem. My grain grinder is set to a setting that has been working well for me to this point, so I don't think the grind was the problem. As far as squeezing the grains, I just let the bag sit in a colander until it stopped dripping, I didn't want undersirable tannins. It was my first small smatch and obviously needs a bit of tweaking to get the same efficiency as my 5 gallon AG batches.
 
HopHoarder said:
I think next time I'm going to go with a bigger bag as I believe that may have been part of the problem. My grain grinder is set to a setting that has been working well for me to this point, so I don't think the grind was the problem. As far as squeezing the grains, I just let the bag sit in a colander until it stopped dripping, I didn't want undersirable tannins. It was my first small smatch and obviously needs a bit of tweaking to get the same efficiency as my 5 gallon AG batches.
Click to expand...

Tannins was a concern of mine as well until I did some reading here on HBT. So I did a search and I've been following the advice here on HBT...mash pH and high temps will cause tannins.

I've done BIAB going on my second year and so good so far. If you're not convinced than yeah just use a little more base grain and you're good to go.:mug:
 
HopHoarder said:
I just finished brewing a belgian blonde. Pretty much got my target amount of wort (6.5 litres) but my target O.G. was just 1.066 instead of 1.072 according to Beersmith. I had the grains in a muslin bag suspended by a large SS colander in the kettle. I "sparged" the wort between two 14litre pots pouring the wort over the suspended grain bag 5 times before bringing it all to a boil. I guess the bag system isn't as efficient as a mash tun so I'll just build myself a mini mash tun as my 48qt tun is too big for these small batches.
Click to expand...

You say you are using the wort to sparge? Im not sure but i think the sugars would probably stick to the grains wouldn't it if you sparge with wort?

Also, you don't get tannins from grain if you are doing a full volume BIAB correctly. I think you have a few items that are causing you to lose efficiency that are very easy to fix.
 
Going to try streaming my brew day in the morning again. I have more to do this time so I won't be just standing there talking to myself. Also won't be playing music through the phone I'm using as a camera so the sound should be better. So if anyone is bored around 9am CST check it out. I'll post the link here tomorrow when I start.
 
Yeah I used wort to sparge. It was more for the purpose of hopefully filtering some of the trub out by running it through the grainbed. I bought a large nylon bag (5 gal) for straining paint and will line my colander (my SS colander is 10.75x10.75") with that so the grains will be looser. I also bought 3 2 gallon fermenter buckets from midwest supplies for 4.99 each (came out to 27.00 with shipping for the order) so I'll be brewing alot more of these badboys.
Still a work in process.
 
I'm going to start filtering through a fine nylon bag when it goes into primary. Got a bit of a soapy taste in my last one and it could be from the protiens in the trub breaking down or it could be from fermentation temps. I'll check what filtering does and then decide if I need to ferment cooler or not. I'm thinking its the trub though because I haven't had any others come out soapy.
 
HopHoarder said:
Yeah I used wort to sparge. It was more for the purpose of hopefully filtering some of the trub out by running it through the grainbed. I bought a large nylon bag (5 gal) for straining paint and will line my colander (my SS colander is 10.75x10.75") with that so the grains will be looser. I also bought 3 2 gallon fermenter buckets from midwest supplies for 4.99 each (came out to 27.00 with shipping for the order) so I'll be brewing alot more of these badboys.
Still a work in process.
Click to expand...

I think you're mixing up a few processes. Usually if you are say batch sparging, you will use some strike water to sparge with into a mash tun. You don't lift a bag, the grain is in the tun and the bed of husks will create a filter so moving it around suspended in a bag really won't work.

Now, if your doing a BIAB, then you don't sparge ( if you have full volume) you bring the water up to mashout temp, lift and the you squeeze the bag. If you partially BIAB with a sparge, you still sparge with water.. not wort. You should read a few more stickies on BIAB and batch sparge so you decipher the two.
 
HopHoarder said:
Yeah I used wort to sparge. It was more for the purpose of hopefully filtering some of the trub out by running it through the grainbed. I bought a large nylon bag (5 gal) for straining paint and will line my colander (my SS colander is 10.75x10.75") with that so the grains will be looser. I also bought 3 2 gallon fermenter buckets from midwest supplies for 4.99 each (came out to 27.00 with shipping for the order) so I'll be brewing alot more of these badboys.
Still a work in process.
Click to expand...

divrguy said:
I think you're mixing up a few processes. Usually if you are say batch sparging, you will use some strike water to sparge with into a mash tun. You don't lift a bag, the grain is in the tun and the bed of husks will create a filter so moving it around suspended in a bag really won't work.

Now, if your doing a BIAB, then you don't sparge ( if you have full volume) you bring the water up to mashout temp, lift and the you squeeze the bag. If you partially BIAB with a sparge, you still sparge with water.. not wort. You should read a few more stickies on BIAB and batch sparge so you decipher the two.
Click to expand...

Hophoarder is trying to 'filter' out some of the flour and loose grain that comes with BIAB by doing a hybrid BIAB...

Give it a try, can't hurt and if you like the results:ban:

Until I started doing 1-gallon batches, I would have to do a batch sparge with BIAB because I didn't have a pot big enough for a full volume BIAB which according to the definition of BIAB wasn't a 'true' BIAB. Whew that's was a mouthful...
 
JollyIsTheRoger said:
I was off for about 2 minutes to reconnect to my wifi, back now. Everyone tries right after I go offline for some reason.
Click to expand...

Hey jolly, it's working now but I can seem to comment because I don't have a Facebook account. I was on break at a meeting so ill try again with cellphone
 
Yeah U guess I muxed things up a bit as my process was more akin to BIAB but I brought my mash/ sparge habits with me and sort of merged the two which was why my results werent quite what I expected.
Still a bit of a learning process and Im refining my system. Good thing about these small batches is more frequent opportunity to fine-tune.
 
cheesecake said:
The 2 kits I ordered from Brooklyn brew shop came in today. And my pump for my 2.5 gallon setup came in also.
Click to expand...

Did you do that $5 deal? I totally missed it....otherwise the kits they sell are quite pricey IMO.

any pics of your setup?
 
Yeah I got in on the 5 dollar deal. I will post pictures of the setup when its up and running. Right now its just a bunch of parts. Still waiting on a bunch of other parts
 
HopHoarder said:
Yeah I used wort to sparge. It was more for the purpose of hopefully filtering some of the trub out by running it through the grainbed.
Click to expand...

I know there were lots of responses between this post and mine now, so if it's repeated please forgive me, but you don't want to sparge with wort. Oh, sure, you can filter through the grainbed that way. But then you still should do a sparge with plain water (even cold water is fine) to rinse the grains. The reason is that the sugars from the wort will actually "stick" to the grain, and give you worse efficiency! So either don't sparge (which is ok if you take the lower efficiency into account), or sparge with plain water.
 
cheesecake said:
The 2 kits I ordered from Brooklyn brew shop came in today. And my pump for my 2.5 gallon setup came in also.
Click to expand...

Cheese I wish I had been a little quicker. That's a great deal on those kits!
 

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