Building a single-tier brewstand - MLT?

I'm (slowly) working on a single-tier brew stand. I have two Sankes right now for the HLT and boil kettle. I'm trying to figure out the advantages / disadvantages of finding another Sanke for the MLT vs using the 52(?)qt cooler I originally bought for the MLT. What advice can y'all give me on using one versus the other?

You can direct fire a sanke which would be an advantage if your re-circulating your mash or to raise your mash temp if it drops. Stick with what you got for a few batches and if you dont like it then get the sanke. IMO no sense buying something before you have tried what you got.

OK - dumb question #1 for this thread: If I'm recirculating (and using the cooler), couldn't I just fire the recirculation vessel (the HLT) to heat the mash?

All I have is the cooler right now - nothing for the manifold. It can always be re-purposed to hold food & beer.

Good point. I was typing faster than I was thinking. Do you even plan on re-circulating?

i went 3 sanke cuz i got a screaming deal on the kegs. my buddy went with an igloo. his holds temp WAY better than my keg. ultimately i went with a HERMS setup to recirculate through my HLT with my immersion chiller as my HERMS coil to modify temps. works pretty well, but i'm still a little envious of his cooler sometimes.

cooler advantages:
-holds temps better
-less expensive

keggle advantages:
-easier to clean stainless
-can handle higher temperatures
-can direct fire with false bottom
-higher volume (62qt keg vs 52qt cooler)
-bling factor (all 3 vessels match)

Thanks for the response. I checked - my cooler is 62 qt, so that's a wash.

*If* the cooler holds temps better, isn't that a wash with not being able to direct-fire it?

I am currently using a cooler as an MLT and just built my single tier stand. I built the stand with the idea of going to a direct fire MLT in the future including propane manifold and wind screen. I'll continue to use my cooler but when I do go to a 3 keggle set up, I just need to drop in another burner and I'll be good to go.

fuzzybee said:

Thanks for the response. I checked - my cooler is 62 qt, so that's a wash.

*If* the cooler holds temps better, isn't that a wash with not being able to direct-fire it?

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i suppose so. but you can always recirc or decoction to get where you need to be if you actually step... my buddy does 90 min single infusions and never has to compensate for temp dropping.

the keg is slightly more versatile, but usually at a much higher price as well...

I have a sanke MLT and I often have cooler envy. There's something satisfyingly simple about leaving a mash alone for 60 minutes with no pumps or BS.

I could see that. Does a cooler, though, rule out doing a good step mash?

Bobby_M said:

I have a sanke MLT and I often have cooler envy. There's something satisfyingly simple about leaving a mash alone for 60 minutes with no pumps or BS.

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Are you using any insulation on your MLT?

I'm planning on using two or three layer of Reflectix, a layer of foam board on the bottom, a thick foam lid and a foam board float on top of the mash.

Bobby_M said:

I have a sanke MLT and I often have cooler envy. There's something satisfyingly simple about leaving a mash alone for 60 minutes with no pumps or BS.

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a insulated keggle that can direct fire seems to be the best of both worlds. I used your insulation idea of the mineral wood and it holds solid for at least 30 minutes. I just kick on the rims after that.

Yes... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/direct-fire-mlt-insulation-project-154652/


I'm not saying it can't be done, but this sort of project was quite a bit of work just to be able to direct fire a tun that normally bleeds heat. I'm still on the fence, but all signs point to direct fire ability is quite overrated. Yes, I can adjust temps quickly and reach mashout temps, step mash without infusion/decoction but I ONLY step mash recipes with unmalted wheat. That limits utility to Lambics and Wits and one can easily step mash via infusion in those limited cases. It's a great little project and I do like my tun just fine but I still don't find anything inherently wrong with the out of the box utility of a cooler, especially if you have one already. If you're going to run a element based RIMS eventually, then it doesn't matter all that much. I'll get better efficiency due to the insulation at that point so it's not a total lost cause.

fuzzybee said:

I could see that. Does a cooler, though, rule out doing a good step mash?

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you can either add more, hotter water for step mashes, recirculate through a HERMS/RIMS, or do decoctions (taking some mash wort out, heating it, putting it back).

all 3 will totally work for a cooler. adding more water or decoction need no more equipment, herms/rims needs some sort of device to heat the wort.

Yeah - I envision (right now) using the cooler, but putting a coil in my HLT for recirculation. I've already planned on two pumps, so that should take care of my needs for recirculation, right?

From what I can see, the primary reason for using direct-fire for a MLT is to keep the temperature up - correct?

you can recirc with one pump. MLT -> hose -> pump -> hose -> HERMS coil -> hose -> MLT.

everything you want to do with direct fire you can do with HERMS/RIMS.

slakwhere said:

you can either add more, hotter water for step mashes, recirculate through a HERMS/RIMS, or do decoctions (taking some mash wort out, heating it, putting it back).

all 3 will totally work for a cooler. adding more water or decoction need no more equipment, herms/rims needs some sort of device to heat the wort.

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Yes, you are right, but I use a sanke because it's much easier to have this wide variety of options for mashing techniques.

IMO, there is way more BS with using a cooler than there is with recirculating a sanke.

EarthBound said:

Yes, you are right, but I use a sanke because it's much easier to have this wide variety of options for mashing techniques.

IMO, there is way more BS with using a cooler than there is with recirculating a sanke.

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Could you be more specific?

Bobby_M said:

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I do not recommend this because it would be an inefficient use of time, IMO. Just use two wraps of the Buna-N Closed Cell Foam Rubber from McMaster. There's a couple more foam rubber suggestions in this thread.

fuzzybee said:

Could you be more specific?

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It's a matter of brewer preference (esp. when it comes to step-mashing), but I believe there is more BS with using a cooler because of several reasons:

1. It’s not SS. Professionals use SS for many reasons: cleans easily, looks pretty, durable, welded fittings.

2. You can’t direct fire it.

3. The size and shape. I prefer a round-shaped MLT. The biggest round cooler that I could find is 10 gallons which limits my OG capabilities.

4. I noticed an immediate increase with my brewhouse efficiency when I switched to sanke. This is because of my expanded options of easier-to-perform-with-a-keggle-than-cooler brewing techniques.

If you need more reasons, just let me know. I hope I never have to use a cooler again.

EarthBound said:

I do not recommend this because it would be an inefficient use of time, IMO. Just use two wraps of the Buna-N Closed Cell Foam Rubber from McMaster. There's a couple more foam rubber suggestions in this thread.

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Not if you direct fire.

Bobby_M said:

Not if you direct fire.

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Of course.

Oh, yours is for direct fire!

My bad.