Frustrated with AG....

I was looking for a couple quick suggestions as I'm getting frustrated with AG. I have done AG a few years back in a 10g cooler and I never finished that beer due to a move. I just got back into it, very much so (8 batches brewed since mid November) and at this point I can't seem to figure out why I get such a massive amount of grain- particularly my last 2 batches.

I'm working out of a small apartment kitchen, so no full batches. I use a 5 gal cooler and so far, the half batch approach has been working for me- especially since I have been reusing yeast.

After reading here and thinking about buying a few hundred dollars of new equipment I've decided I'd simply ask the question I've had-

With a 5 gal rubbermaid cooler, should I be using this false bottom or go back to a boil screen (http://www.midwestsupplies.com/6-boil-screen.html)

Pics for reference:





I'm just so frustrated with all the grain I'm starting to get!!

You're getting grain under the false bottom? If so it might be floating on you while you're doughing in. You can use a small dowel to hold it done until you have enough grain weight in there.

I have to say that bazooka/boil screens work great for me. I've never had to deal with a false bottom before, so I can't really compare.

That false bottom should work fine, I dunno what's going on... all I know to tell you is just drain slowly and vorlauf lots.

I usually start my valve about a third of the way open and vorlauf about 1.5-2 gallons worth.

I'm tempted to use the bazooka tube again. I like the concept of using a false bottom, but I'm beginning to think it's not the best choice for me.

h4mmy86 said:

That false bottom should work fine, I dunno what's going on... all I know to tell you is just drain slowly and vorlauf lots.

I usually start my valve about a third of the way open and vorlauf about 1.5-2 gallons worth.

Click to expand...

I haven't tried to vorlauf that much. That is an option

It may be a grind issue as well. Are you grinding your own, or buying it that way? I cant really speak much to the bazooka screen idea b/c i have never used one myself.

thewhoner said:

I haven't tried to vorlauf that much. That is an option

Click to expand...

There's your problem right there. You're going to get some amount of grain through any type of screening device at first until you vorlauf until it runs clear.

This problem will be compounded if you're batch sparging since you mix up the grain bed during each batch. You have to vorlauf each time you shift the grain bed around (stir it up during sparge water batches) until the wort runs clear.

Generally, the bigger the holes in the screen, the more you will have to vorlauf. A metal braid will clear a lot quicker than something with big holes.

Definitely vorlauf--unless you're running a RIMS or HERMS I think it's a good idea.

Drop a paint strainer bag in there and contain the grains in that. It will be a much finer filter and keep the grains from going through the false bottom. The bags I first bought had an elastic top that I think will stretch over your mash tun so the bag doesn't fall in.

I use a bazooka screen and batch sparge. I only vorlauft a 1/2 gallon with the valve 1/4 open then let it flow w/ the valve 1/2 open till its drained. When I sparge I mix it up real good then just start the vorlauft again..... The screens are pretty cheap, might be worth a try.

The vorlauf will help, the other thing I did (I have a pickup tube at the bottom of mine) is that I went and purchased a 3 pack of stainless steel scrubbers from Target (like you use to scour pans in the kitchen) and i create a secondary filter around the tube. I used to get a ton of grain through, after pulling off just a few cups of liquid things run clear now, it works great!

Does the beer you make taste good? Does it look different when it's finished and dropped clear?

A lot of people claim that there is no real good reason to vorlauf until it runs perfectly clear. The proteins will drop out during fermentation. Whatever you can see during the vorlauf is so big it tends to drop down pretty quick.

RM-MN said:

Drop a paint strainer bag in there and contain the grains in that. It will be a much finer filter and keep the grains from going through the false bottom. The bags I first bought had an elastic top that I think will stretch over your mash tun so the bag doesn't fall in.

Click to expand...

This is what I do. Works great.

I agree with Homercidal.

I've also heard that those proteins are actually helpful for yeast health and that vorlaufing the runnings clear might be denying your yeast some of the healthy proteins.

Unless your beer tastes bad, or is overly cloudy because of it, I don't really see the need to worry.

Homercidal said:

Does the beer you make taste good? Does it look different when it's finished and dropped clear?

A lot of people claim that there is no real good reason to vorlauf until it runs perfectly clear. The proteins will drop out during fermentation. Whatever you can see during the vorlauf is so big it tends to drop down pretty quick.

Click to expand...

well, I won't really know for a few weeks. but, my concern is that I was under the impression I'll get some bad tannins in the beer once it boils. If I'm wrong on that, that's great news.


On a side note, I got some friends together this weekend to help brew a couple porters... holding the fasle bottom down with a dowel made an amazing difference. I vorlaufed about 3/4 gallon and was good to go both times. Plus, my efficiency went up about 8-9%.


I appreciate all the advice in here. I think I am going to look into the bag to make it even easier. Plus, sounds like it would make it a snap to clean the mash tun.

Maybe most of my frustration stems from lack of patience. I can't wait this long to try these beers!!!

I tried a false bottom only one time, instant stuck runoff. The grains got right under the false bottom and I had to dump the mash tun contents into a strainer bag. The brew came out ok since I saved it but I found the reason - the false bottom was slightly warped and grain easily got underneath. For $50+ dollars (can't recall) I was ticked off so I returned it to Northern and got the $17 bazooka tube. To this day it's been a total charm. No stuck runoff/sparges unless I'm doing a pumpkin and forget to add rice hulls, which I don't forget to do lol. I do wheats all the time with no rice hulls and no problem whatsoever. I've been very happy with my cheap bazooka screen.


Rev.

thewhoner said:

well, I won't really know for a few weeks. but, my concern is that I was under the impression I'll get some bad tannins in the beer once it boils. If I'm wrong on that, that's great news.


On a side note, I got some friends together this weekend to help brew a couple porters... holding the fasle bottom down with a dowel made an amazing difference. I vorlaufed about 3/4 gallon and was good to go both times. Plus, my efficiency went up about 8-9%.


I appreciate all the advice in here. I think I am going to look into the bag to make it even easier. Plus, sounds like it would make it a snap to clean the mash tun.

Maybe most of my frustration stems from lack of patience. I can't wait this long to try these beers!!!

Click to expand...

To extract the tannins requires that your pH goes above 6.0. Since your typical mash is well below that you shouldn't have any problem. People who do a decoction mash boil grains and they don't get tannins. I think you will be fine.

RM-MN said:

To extract the tannins requires that your pH goes above 6.0. Since your typical mash is well below that you shouldn't have any problem. People who do a decoction mash boil grains and they don't get tannins. I think you will be fine.

Click to expand...

Count me in this group--nothing better than a nice decocted wit or weizenbock. And I've never had any issues with tannin leaching. Not saying it CAN'T happen, but there are other things to worry about more IMO.

RM-MN said:

Drop a paint strainer bag in there and contain the grains in that. It will be a much finer filter and keep the grains from going through the false bottom. The bags I first bought had an elastic top that I think will stretch over your mash tun so the bag doesn't fall in.

Click to expand...

I've done this. I was having issues with my manifold. It worked pretty well. Makes cleaning your mash tun a lot easier too. I fixed my manifold issue, so I don't do it anymore, but it is a good option. Especially in an emergency.

RM-MN said:

Drop a paint strainer bag in there and contain the grains in that. It will be a much finer filter and keep the grains from going through the false bottom. The bags I first bought had an elastic top that I think will stretch over your mash tun so the bag doesn't fall in.

Click to expand...

inigomontoya said:

The vorlauf will help, the other thing I did (I have a pickup tube at the bottom of mine) is that I went and purchased a 3 pack of stainless steel scrubbers from Target (like you use to scour pans in the kitchen) and i create a secondary filter around the tube. I used to get a ton of grain through, after pulling off just a few cups of liquid things run clear now, it works great!

Click to expand...

I used to use the strainer bag and these days I use half a stainless scrubby at the inlet under the false bottom. Both work well.

RM-MN said:

Drop a paint strainer bag in there and contain the grains in that. It will be a much finer filter and keep the grains from going through the false bottom. The bags I first bought had an elastic top that I think will stretch over your mash tun so the bag doesn't fall in.

Click to expand...

Kind of defeats the purpose of buying the most expensive filter(False bottoms arent cheap) for your mash tun to require a $5 paint bag for it to even be useful.

Get a bazooka tube, mesh braid, or build a copper manifold and just be done with it.

FuzzeWuzze said:

Kind of defeats the purpose of buying the most expensive filter(False bottoms arent cheap) for your mash tun to require a $5 paint bag for it to even be useful.

Get a bazooka tube, mesh braid, or build a copper manifold and just be done with it.

Click to expand...

If you already have a false bottom isn't a $5 strainer bag cheaper than buying those other things?!?