Highest efficiency?

I just finished my 9th AG. And it went perfect. 4 ½ hours from start to everything put away. I think I found a rhythm. I was focused on only brewing. Everything flowed very nicely.

I used 12 # total grains. The problem I’m having is I measured the runoff at 6.25 gal, and measured SG of 1.030 plus or minus a point, at boiling. I wrote that down, and continued. End of boil I have 5.5 gal in carboy at 62 deg, and measure 1.068, that is way too high. I measured again this morning, 1.068. That would put my efficiency at over 90%. Possible, but not likely.

I batch sparge and everything flowed really well. My mash temp 157 for 60 min temp dropped to 154.

I am pretty certain I measured the grains properly, but it is possible I got an extra ½ pound of 2-row in there. Even then the efficiency is over 90%.

Once again, I am fairly certain I weighed the grains properly, and used only 12 #. What is the highest probable efficiency?

I've been kind of surprised at my efficiencies too (I did a post High eff or am i an idiot) because I'm frequently getting into the low 90's. Turns out my system is just working well, and I'm sure that my water has a lot to do with it... Anyway,what I'd say is brew a few more using your same method, and if the results are the same, consider yourself lucky!

cheers -p

What kind of systems are you guys using? Mine seem to hit about 75% max, using the modified cooler setup.

aseelye said:

What kind of systems are you guys using? Mine seem to hit about 75% max, using the modified cooler setup.

Click to expand...

I'm using the same thing. 5 gal cooler w/ SS braid. I usually get low 80s. This was quite a surprise.

i'm interested to know what equation everyone uses to calculate effeciency. i also seem to come out abnormally high, and i think i'm just using a strange formula or something. i have seen at least two formulas, and i just want to know what is in general use.

inkbob said:

I have seen at least two formulas, and i just want to know what is in general use.

Click to expand...

What formulas have you seen?

There is effciency based on the maximum possible extract from the grains and there is efficiency based on the total grain weight. Most brewers, if not to say all home brewers here in the US seem to use the first one.

The 2 things that matter most for efficicy in batch sparging seem to be crush and pH.

Kai

2 brews ago i hit 83% with 2 converted kegs. My sparge temp was right at 70.

This past weekend i hit 76% but my sparge only ever hit 63.

I am using a 2 roller crankandstien and i fricken love it.

Home made C-PVC manifold that usually leaves me with a cup of wort in the bottom of the kettle, if that.

If i could just regulary hit 70 with the sparge then i think i would be golden with my Eff.

I'm down around 60% on my last batch...wish I had your problems.

Kaiser said:

What formulas have you seen?

There is effciency based on the maximum possible extract from the grains and there is efficiency based on the total grain weight. Most brewers, if not to say all home brewers here in the US seem to use the first one.

The 2 things that matter most for efficicy in batch sparging seem to be crush and pH.

Kai

Click to expand...

exactly. i use the first one also. the problem is i have a tiny list of what the "maximum possible" extract is for certain items, and i am beginning to think i shouldn't trust it. the list gives me a percentage, which i multiply by my kilo weight for each individual grist component, and i get an amount which represents grams of extract at 100% mash effeciency. (for example 1 Kg of Pils malt would have a max possible extract of 820 grams extract) then i compute my actual extract (10 x degrees Plato x liters), and figure my mash effeciency % from there. it has been in the high 70s to mid 80s

since my results seem high, i think maybe i just need a better reference list of the max possible extracts. that being said, maybe i should have done a detailed search of the forum, but i seem to remember looking for one before and not finding it here. i dont mind doing some conversion from lbs to kilos and so on, if someone can reccomend a good source.

Hydrometer accuracy? Didja buy a new one lately?

I don't know what you are using to compute your efficiency, but your figures are way off. To start out with, efficiency is figured on the extract potential of the grains you used vs the actual extract. Since we don't know your grain bill other than 12 pounds of grain, I just figured your efficiency based on using 12 pounds of U.S. 2 row. If you had a pre-boil gravity of 1.030 for a volume of 6.25 gallons, your mash efficiency was only 45% and your post boil gravity for 5.5 gallons should have been only 1.036. You have some serious measurement problem there.

If we assume your pre-boil gravity was wrong and just use your post-boil gravity, things look different. That would show a system efficiency of 90% which would include any losses due to wort left in the kettle with the hops, etc. This also seems suspiciously high.

You show a boil off rate of only .75 gallon per hour. Normal boil off is more in the range of 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour, somtimes even more.

I do think you need to take a serious look at your measurements before thinking this 90% figure is correct. Good brewing software will make the computations easy once you get the measurements right. The efficiency measurement you get on the preboil gravity and volume is more important than your post boil efficiency as it is a measure of how successful conversion was. Your post boil efficiency will always be lower due to losses in the kettle.

For normal gravity beers I usually get preboil efficiencies in the 77-80% range with the post boil efficiency about 2-3% less.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

Sean said:

and measured SG of 1.030 plus or minus a point, at boiling.

Click to expand...

If you will notice the last part of that statement you will see the words "at boiling". Wort boils at about 212, probably a bit higher, but let's just use 212. I assume from your pretentious post that you can do the math from there.

Sean said:

I used 12 # total grains. The problem I’m having is I measured the runoff at 6.25 gal, and measured SG of 1.030 plus or minus a point, at boiling. I wrote that down, and continued. End of boil I have 5.5 gal in carboy at 62 deg, and measure 1.068, that is way too high. I measured again this morning, 1.068. That would put my efficiency at over 90%. Possible, but not likely.

Click to expand...

Lets say you had 12.5# of grain at approx 40 gravity points per gallon.
That's 500 potential point.

500/6.5= a potential extract gravity of 1077

If your wort was 1030 at 212 then the gravity would be around 1072
So you mash efficiency would be

72/77*100=93% (Based on my rough arsed calculations above.)

Now this is the bit that put the figures in Doubt.

Given you have 6.25 gallon at 1072 and you boil down to 5.5 then your gravity should go up not down.

6.25 @ 1072 would give 5.5 @ 1082 n you have 5.5 @ 1068

So if we work backwards from the end figures, presuming your hydro is correct.

5.5 @ 1068 = 374
374 / 6.5 = 57.5

57.5/77= 75%

75% is more reasonable and expected given your previous brews. (Plus this is what mist recipes are set for)

Either way you'll get good beer.

The last 4 batches I've made have all been in the low to mid 80's. I use a standard, non-adjustable JSP Malt Mill and could not be happier !

My only two AGs ended up in the low 70s.

Thanks Orfy for making me look it up and do the math myself.

Keep in mind I am not looking for exact numbers. This is only my second batch with this cooler, M/L tun. I know the grain bill sucks, it is all I had in the house, and the shop is 1 ½ hours away. I just want to get some consistency.

The main thing I think is wrong is I did not take a temp reading on the initial hydro reading. The wort was boiling, so I assumed 212. By the time I got it read, it probably had cooled considerably, and 20 – 25 degrees would mean 10 gravity points or so.

So 1.030 @ 185 – 190 = 1.060
As opposed to:
1.030 @ 210 = 1.070

Then reduced by boiling: 60*6.25/5.5=68. Which is what I measured at end of boil, and the next morning.

So total potential gravity of grains as reported in Homebrewtalk.com’s new Wiki, is: 430.75.
11.5 2-row @ 36 + .25 Carapils @ 33 + .25 Crystal @ 34.

Total gravity of wort = 68*5.5=374

Efficiency = 374/430.75 = 86.8

I am almost sure I did not add an extra ½ pound of grain. But if I did that would be an efficiency of 83.3.

I guess I just need to brew more and see what happens.

Sean,

Don't worry about it. You are getting a good extraction.
Just brew and all you need to do is take a hydrometer reading at the fermenter. If you are getting above target then next time you can up you effeicency measurement in the software and reduce you grain bill alittle so you hit target.

Well done.

It's good that you understand what is happening and how to work it out.

i was laying in bed last night and realized my error... i had "thought" i was hitting 75-80% extract effeciency, but my computation was using the "highest possible extraction" as my 100% value and i was getting approx 80% of that. i figured out that i am actually getting right around 65% of the total grain weight. i knew something was wrong with my calculation, but couldn't nail it down.

but now i know, and knowing is half the battle.

I'm down around 60% on my last batch...wish I had your problems.

Click to expand...

I was way low on my last batch as well, was really bummed until I realized I was off exactly one pound of 2-row according to my OG. I weighed out the grains the night before, I was pretty drunk at the time, my scale will only handle 11 pounds so I always split it up, this time I needed a 7 and 6 pound split, and I kind of remember forgetting if I did 7 or 6 pounds on the first run and now I'm pretty sure it was 6 pounds and 6 pounds on the second run Oops

Hydrometer accuracy? Didja buy a new one lately?

Click to expand...

I have 2 of the cheap hydrometers from Northern Brewer, first thing I did was check them in 60 F distilled water and found that one was off 6 points and the other was off 4 points. I now have a refractometer, I use it and sugar water to check the hydrometers and it confirmed the error. Refractometers are great but you still need an accurate hydrometer or at least know the amount of error so you can correct.

Sean said:

If you will notice the last part of that statement you will see the words "at boiling". Wort boils at about 212, probably a bit higher, but let's just use 212. I assume from your pretentious post that you can do the math from there.

Click to expand...

Easy, there. I don't think it was pretentious at all. The numbers don't quite add up, so there's a measurement error of some sort in there--most likely the temp correction for the hot wort reading, as you've already mentioned.

FWIW, taking readings in boiling or near-boiling wort is a good way to break your hydrometer. I usually put the sample tube in ice water while I bring the wort to a boil and guard against a boilover at the hot break. When it's OK to take my eye off the boiling wort, I take the reading (it's usually at something like 100-120 degrees at this point) and do temp correction. Because I haven't added the kettle hops yet, I have multiple options for correcting if the gravity is way off.

Hmmmm.

I'm doing my 10th AG batch this weekend since the new year and haven't calc'd my efficiency yet.

Am I missing out on more mad-science fun? Not sure what I'd do differently if I knew my efficiency...

I'll have to think about that.

Least my beer tastes good.

It's always important to know your efficiency, even more so if you are creating your own recipes. I probably wouldn't worry about it nearly as much as I do if I only brewed kits.

I currently can not get my efficiancy above 60% what the hell is going on I would be happy with 70-75% I use a single step infusion and batch sparge. Would a multiple step infusion be better I have been wondering ? any tips

morbid53 said:

I currently can not get my efficiancy above 60% what the hell is going on I would be happy with 70-75% I use a single step infusion and batch sparge. Would a multiple step infusion be better I have been wondering ? any tips

Click to expand...

Do you know what your water chemistry is? If your pH is way too high or low, you can get drastically reduced efficiency.