Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

bottlebomber said:

I've thought about that very thing especially in regards to the soak and rinse step that many are doing. It seems all you're rinsing off is valuable starch that will convert to sugar and then into alcohol.

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There is a difference in what is "lost" in rinsing and what is lost in boiling. What you loose in rinsing is the outer layer of the rice. Especially if you are using a non-milled rice. And when I say non-milled I mean the difference between rice prepared to be eaten vs. one milled to 40% - 60% of its original size to prepare it for brewing.

The outer layer directly beneath the husk is more bitter than the inner layer of the rice. Even in high quality culinary it is highly suggested to rinse the rice very well before cooking.

Clearcut23 said:

But when I "boil" the rice all I do is add it to boiling water and reduce the heat with a lid in the pot. Won't all that stuff in the water be absorbed by the rice along with the water?

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Sure there are some minerals gained in boiling but the same is gained in soaking properly and steaming. What you are doing is not "Wrong" in my opinion. Just you may get a little better product steaming.

Arpolis said:

The outer layer directly beneath the husk is more bitter than the inner layer of the rice. Even in high quality culinary it is highly suggested to rinse the rice very well before cooking.

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I used to do that, but stopped when I started making all my rice pilaf style by toasting the grains in a small amount of oil before cooking. Much better this way. You can do both, but you have to rinse the rice an hour beforehand because you can't toast wet rice.

Arpolis said:

Sure there are some minerals gained in boiling but the same is gained in soaking properly and steaming. What you are doing is not "Wrong" in my opinion. Just you may get a little better product steaming.

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That's all I needed to know. Thanks!

Arpolis said:

There is a difference in what is "lost" in rinsing and what is lost in boiling. What you loose in rinsing is the outer layer of the rice. Especially if you are using a non-milled rice. And when I say non-milled I mean the difference between rice prepared to be eaten vs. one milled to 40% - 60% of its original size to prepare it for brewing.

The outer layer directly beneath the husk is more bitter than the inner layer of the rice. Even in high quality culinary it is highly suggested to rinse the rice very well before cooking.



Sure there are some minerals gained in boiling but the same is gained in soaking properly and steaming. What you are doing is not "Wrong" in my opinion. Just you may get a little better product steaming.

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Hmm, I suppose a rice cooker would be boiling rather then steaming. Maybe next batch I'll add a little yeast nutrient to the water, or the rice after it's cooked.

I'm on the morning of day 3. Just checked on it and it is coming along nicely. Lots of liquid. I stirred the top layer of yeast and rice into the liquid to speed it up a bit. When I took the lid off I got a big whiff of alcohol. I tasted a spoonful and its still pretty sweet, but then again it's only day 3.

I started a 2 cup batch last night. I had to go to three Asian markets to find the yeast balls, and even then I could only find them in single packets at $1.50 a piece. I have one more Asian market left to visit, I hope they have a bigger bag of them. At least now I have a package to show them that they can hopefully read.

The rice I used was simply labeled Sweet Rice, and was packaged by the shop in large zip lock bag. I guess we will see how it turns out!

I just finished cooking up 18 cups of rice. It seems way mushy, but it's still hot. I'll take pics as it cools and I get it in the bucket with the yeast balls. I used a hotel pan in my oven as a giant rice cooker.

So excited!

Being new to brewing beer, mead, and wine I never got to be on the other side of the whole RDWHAHB thing. Here I get to be.

I always simply cook up rice the way I always do, crush and throw in the yeast balls, and let nature do its magic. I have yet to have a bad batch.

Watching everyone get so worried about the process is hard on me. RDWHAHB!

Fully cooked, maybe overcooked rice. Milk jug is for scale.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/bipolarskizo/rice_zps1a5a27d1.jpg

3 gallons of rice and yeast balls.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/bipolarskizo/done_zps259ab026.jpg

I let it cool to around 80* before mixing in the yeast.

wooda2008 said:

Fully cooked, maybe overcooked rice. Milk jug is for scale.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/bipolarskizo/rice_zps1a5a27d1.jpg

3 gallons of rice and yeast balls.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/bipolarskizo/done_zps259ab026.jpg

I let it cool to around 80* before mixing in the yeast.

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Nice. I'm waiting to see how mine turns out before I start going crazy. I have an extra stainless stock pot with lid I can dedicate for rice. I'd rather give this stuff out than the wine that takes forever to make.

I have 2 eight cups (dry) batches going a week apart. My counters are full! So in the interim I was reading up on the sake making process in Japan and other locations. We were baffled by our lack of "science" in the process and that our results are outstanding. Is there something in this method that makes it better, easier or foolproof that makes it work so well? If any one could explain the science behind this,I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

lovelylocksleah said:

I have 2 eight cups (dry) batches going a week apart. My counters are full! So in the interim I was reading up on the sake making process in Japan and other locations. We were baffled by our lack of "science" in the process and that our results are outstanding. Is there something in this method that makes it better, easier or foolproof that makes it work so well? If any one could explain the science behind this,I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

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I have been contemplating the "science" behind this for a while. Traditional sake has to be so precisely controlled to be done right and not be terrible. However nice batches of this rice wine are made all the time in this thread with little regard to temp control, mineral additions nutrient control........

The only things I can come up with are the exact types of saccharifying enzymes used are more varied than in traditional sake. Sake requires Kome-Koji which is a specific type of fermented rice made from spores of specific aspergillus mold. Where as the rice wine is made from jiuqu Which have several molds and yeast developed in a dough block.

Here is a sight that goes into the making of jiuqu really well along with a lot of history on rice wine.

http://www.jiangnan.edu.cn/zhgjiu/u2-2.htm

Thanks for the link Arpolis.

My rice is putting out CO2 like a champ. smells wonderful

Both my batches are producing a very subtle "plum" aroma. About 1 inch on the bottom of the first bath has liquefied. I was thinking this was taking longer then it should, but I rechecked my notes and the batch is only 12 days old. I guess I'm getting over anxious.

I keep the heat off when I'm not home. I also have my batch sitting in my kitchen window outcove so my temps have been rather low. Have it a warm water bath when I got home tonight and put it in my bedroom closet. Hopefully it hasn't slowed down too much

I transferred a quart of chilled white rice wine (since I made a red yeast rice version also) into a mason jar, tossed in a dozen fresh, destemmed strawberries & applied the lid and returned to refrigerator. WOW was that amazing in 72 hours, strawberries and all!!

Thank you Arpolis - that helps considerably! I appreciate the time to answer and reference website.

If you want science check out Arapolis' legit sake thread

if you want tomfoolery that ends in awesomeness... this thread will do

sonofgrok said:

If you want science check out Arapolis' legit sake thread

if you want tomfoolery that ends in awesomeness... this thread will do

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Ah, I thought this was the shenanigans that ended in awesomeness thread.

How is everyone pasteurizing this? Or are you not?

cpesko said:

How is everyone pasteurizing this? Or are you not?

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Not. I don't pasteurize any of my other fermented beverages. Why would I pasteurize this?

I don't pasteurize either but I have theorized that it would work.

If you let it ferment too long will it turn to vinegar? That's the only reason I would pasteurize. Probably heat some water on the stove and sit the bottle in hot water with the burner off for a few mins. Don't want it too hot as the alcohol will start to steam off. Then probably cold crash it in the fridge then rack off to try to clear it

keeping it in the fridge after ferment has been sufficient for me to keep it from going to vinegar. I would only pasteurize if I wanted to store it for more than a month or so but mine never lasts that long so no biggy.

Why would it turn to vinegar? If you get acetobacter in there then, yes it will turn to vinegar eventually. If you practice standard sanitation procedures your risk ought to be minimal. Does your beer turn to vinegar if you leave it too long?

weirdboy said:

Why would it turn to vinegar? If you get acetobacter in there then, yes it will turn to vinegar eventually. If you practice standard sanitation procedures your risk ought to be minimal. Does your beer turn to vinegar if you leave it too long?

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Beer is not fermented with Koji mold. It will turn to vinegar.

Has anyone ate some of the rice a few days after it started?
Jiu Niang is fermented rice that you eat.

I don't knowif this would be technically and exactly the same thing. But it would be basically the same! It's waht I plan to do once I get around to buying yeast balls.

weirdboy said:

Not. I don't pasteurize any of my other fermented beverages. Why would I pasteurize this?

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This wine is well known for developing Lb infection and pasteurization is the preventative recommended.

Halbrust said:

Has anyone ate some of the rice a few days after it started?
Jiu Niang is fermented rice that you eat.
.

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About 3 days in, I had a nice snack. I shared a link previously that provided recipe for sweet fermented rice treat.

pabloj13 said:

Beer is not fermented with Koji mold. It will turn to vinegar.

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Why? What is in the mold that causes this? What is the reaction taking place that creates acetic acid? I thought it was mainly a source of amylase enzyme, which is not going to create vinegar on its own so far as I know.

saramc said:

This wine is well known for developing Lb infection and pasteurization is the preventative recommended.

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Lactobacillus is going to give you lactic acid, not vinegar. Sure, it's not desirable but it's not acetic acid.

Four days into a 6-cup batch:

The ferment given enough time will progress to vinegar. Standard oxidation of the ferment. This is the same way you make rice vinegar. You just leave it out and wait longer.

weirdboy said:

Lactobacillus is going to give you lactic acid, not vinegar. Sure, it's not desirable but it's not acetic acid.

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Never said it was vinegar. The question was why pasteurize and I answered it.

Here's my 11 cup batch of jasmine rice after 8 days. I was a little worried their for a while but it's coming along nicely now.

Clearcut23 said:

Here's my 11 cup batch of jasmine rice after 8 days. I was a little worried their for a while but it's coming along nicely now.

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Looks familiar. So have you stolen a taste?

saramc said:

Looks familiar. So have you stolen a taste?

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I tried a taste of it on day 3 I think. It was still sweet. I was in a big rush yesterday making dinner and cleaning before the swmbo got home so all I had time for was a pic. I'm a little worried as to how I am going to be able to separate the liquid from the mush at the end. I'm thinking next time I'm going to line the pot with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag like I used for BIAB sonar the end of fermentation all I have to do is pick the bag up and drain it.

I have been getting some mold on top of the rice as it ferments. What is normal for mold as well as color ranges of mold. The first batch I had a little white fuzzy mold and the the last batch has been grey to almost black in places. Concerned I may have made some primordial soup.....

lovelylocksleah said:

I have been getting some mold on top of the rice as it ferments. What is normal for mold as well as color ranges of mold. The first batch I had a little white fuzzy mold and the the last batch has been grey to almost black in places. Concerned I may have made some primordial soup.....

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Next stop: EVOLUTION!

All I wanted was alcohol.....