"lightly" sorbated cider?

Went to the local (60 miles away) orchard today to pick up some of the last of their cider stock to make what I need to get me through the summer.

I called them ahead of time, and asked if they had any preservatives or additives to their juice. The response was no. awesome.

got there, picked up a jug (milk carton type in their local market store) and read the label,

Looked at the label to make sure it's got nothing to hinder me. first one I found. no additives on the label. Loaded up 20, put them in the truck and headed back home. (another 60 miles)

got home and noticed that one of the labels was different. I read closer and it says it's got less than 0.1% sorbate for freshness.... needless to say i'm irritated and thought, well what if it's just one out of 20. wouldnt you know it, 17 out of 20 have the same thing.

So my new question to you guys is posed... 0.1% is .001 * 128 oz in a gallon which is 1/8 of an ounce (0.125). 1/8 ounce (liquid) is a teaspoon of sorbate per gallon. Now i'm a bit stuck and not sure if I can use this stuff.

Anyone ever overcome a sorbated brew before? would it be possible to hit it with just a massive infusion of yeast to get it to ferment?

I know I probably should have checked every label, but I feel a bit misled here. Even if I found they all had sorbate, it was a contradiction of what was told to me over the phone prior to going there.

Suggestions?

You already know from the other post, but for future searching minds the answer is.....drum roll....

It will work fine. I use juice with 0.1% or less sorbate all the time with no issues. It won't slow the yeast down one bit.

nukinfuts29 said:

You already know from the other post, but for future searching minds the answer is.....drum roll....

It will work fine. I use juice with 0.01% or less sorbate all the time with no issues. It won't slow the yeast down one bit.

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Huge difference between 0.01% and .1%, though!

I have never had good luck with starting a ferment with a sorbated cider or juice (or with sodium benzoate) but I've only been doing this about 7 or 8 years. I haven't tried lately, since I had poor results previously. It's probably possible, at least in theory.

Gah why do I keep adding that stupid extra zero. My ciders are .1%, I'll edit my post.

divi2323 said:

So my new question to you guys is posed... 0.1% is .001 * 128 oz in a gallon which is 1/8 of an ounce (0.125). 1/8 ounce (liquid) is a teaspoon of sorbate per gallon.

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I think you might have a problem if your cider has 1 tsp per gallon. The instructions on my jar of sorbate calls for 1/2 tsp per gallon to prevent fermentation. I would suggest using the three gallons of un-sorbated cider as a starter to get the yeast going before adding to the other cider.

GinKings said:

I would suggest using the three gallons of un-sorbated cider as a starter to get the yeast going before adding to the other cider.

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Ditto what GinKings said.

"Lightly sorbated"... Is that like "slightly pregnant"?

GinKings said:

I think you might have a problem if your cider has 1 tsp per gallon. The instructions on my jar of sorbate calls for 1/2 tsp per gallon to prevent fermentation. I would suggest using the three gallons of un-sorbated cider as a starter to get the yeast going before adding to the other cider.

Click to expand...

ugh, 3 gallons of unsorbated... to every gallon of one i've got? If you think my wife thinks i'm crazy now, imagine when I tell her I want to make 80 gallons of cider instead of 20

divi2323 said:

ugh, 3 gallons of unsorbated... to every gallon of one i've got? If you think my wife thinks i'm crazy now, imagine when I tell her I want to make 80 gallons of cider instead of 20

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I was thinking start the 3 gallons, then add that to the other 17.

Are you going to be doing all this in 1 barrel, or multiple carboys?

Unfortunately multiple carboys. would love to do it in one large batch but space and convenience wont let that happen.

It'll likely be 3x 5/6 gal buckets, a 3 gal carboy and a pair of 5 gallon carboys.

I'll probably give a couple gallons a test tonight and see if I cant get them to bubble up tonight. If not, i guess i'm going to be drinking a gallon of apple juice a day for 3 weeks.

GinKings said:

I think you might have a problem if your cider has 1 tsp per gallon. The instructions on my jar of sorbate calls for 1/2 tsp per gallon to prevent fermentation. I would suggest using the three gallons of un-sorbated cider as a starter to get the yeast going before adding to the other cider.

Click to expand...

UpstateMike said:

Ditto what GinKings said.

"Lightly sorbated"... Is that like "slightly pregnant"?

Click to expand...

It's not needed, unless you have junk yeast the 0.1% is not going to stop it.

planned on using nottingham for a plain batch and for the emu batch. 2-3 other batches i'll either use premier cuvee blue packs or safale 05 or safale 06. will let you guys know how it goes.

I always using notty for cider, no starter, dry pitch and the sorbate has never got in the way

duplication of your efforts ... hoping it leads to duplication of results you use any energizer or nutrient in your batches? i pitched energizer just in case. figured it couldnt hurt anything. also added 3 tsp pectic enzyme. this is just the plain jane batch. Need to get the cocoa tomorrow as well as some honey, brown sugar, corn sugar and spices.

Hope I'm not building my brew up before it starts bubbling but I wanted to get SOMETHING going tonight so I could check for signs of fermentation tomorrow. If it flames out, i've got a batch of whole foods plain cider still bubbling away in the basement. I could just use that as a starter for these.

The energizer and stuff won't hurt, I just never use it. Mostly because I'm cheap.

If I was using anything but notty in cider/mead/hard lemonade I would definitely add it though.

No turning back now. Have the emu gunk on the stove cooling for my half batch. something you might consider modifying in your recipe would be not to boil the liquid. The chocolate might overcook a bit, plus if the goal is just to dissolve the sugars, getting it warmed up until it's disolved might be a better strategy? Just thinking out loud.

The witches brew looks like a mudbath with logs floating in it for the cinnamon sticks. I couldnt find any regular sized cinnamon sticks (usually about 2-3 inches long and 1/4 to 3/8" diameter). So I went to the Hispanic spices aisle and they had fresh cinnamon sticks that were HUGE but didnt smell potent. they were about 6-7 inches long and a good 3/4 to 1 inch diameter. ended up using 4 of those instead. oh well, if it's too much, i Do like cinnamon. Tasted the mixture a bit and it's pretty good. I'd drink it as is, cant wait for the cider to eat it up.

I generally get it to a boil and then back it down. It all depends it seems like some days the sugar dissolves better than others. I can't wait for it to finish you will be shocked and amazed.

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Update: bubble in airlock every 90 seconds after 24 hours. To the naysayers, .1% can't stop the knotty from coming out to play.

It certainly doesn't ;-)

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