SLCRebellion
Member
Yeah I used my 6.5 gal Carboy and put a blowoff tube to begin with. I lost maybe a liter worth of stuff, but the noises coming from it were awesome. Sounded like a M60 machine gun on full auto.
Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA clone
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Judgement Day.
To be fair, I must disclose that the Stone version is a couple months older. Mine is about 2 months now, would of been ready quicker, but I have been traveling a lot, and lazy. Also, I like to think I know good beer, but I am better at drinking it than describing it. Also, in the email from Mitch at stone, they originally dry hopped with Pacific Jade and Nelson Sauvin, but changed that to Pacific at flameout and Nelson dry hop. Not sure which one I have.
That said, color and head is pretty much spot on. Home brew version has better retention.
Aroma of the Stone has dropped off some due to not being fresh. More of the carmel almost molasses smell, with some pine/spiciness. Light on the fruit/citrus. Home brew version is still very hoppy in aroma. Some pine, and weird fruit. It's my first time using Nelson Sauvin, so don't know exactly how to describe it, but it smells great.
Taste, the roastiness and bitterness are damn near perfect. Mine finished around 1.026. I was hoping for lower but was lazy and didn't do a starter and may have mashed high. That said, I thing body-wise they are pretty close, as did my co-taster. Stone may be sweeter. Little more hop flavor on the home brew, probably due to the age. The hop flavor that is present is really close, just a little stronger in the home brew. For 10%+ Black IPA, this is smooth.
Overall, I am not sure what I would change. Probably mash lower to get a bit drier for my personal preference. I think the grain and hops are close. Maybe scale back the sauvin a little and up the Jade a bit. Too bad it isn't a year round beer to compare fresh to fresh.
Now, which one is the real deal?:
To be fair, I must disclose that the Stone version is a couple months older. Mine is about 2 months now, would of been ready quicker, but I have been traveling a lot, and lazy. Also, I like to think I know good beer, but I am better at drinking it than describing it. Also, in the email from Mitch at stone, they originally dry hopped with Pacific Jade and Nelson Sauvin, but changed that to Pacific at flameout and Nelson dry hop. Not sure which one I have.
That said, color and head is pretty much spot on. Home brew version has better retention.
Aroma of the Stone has dropped off some due to not being fresh. More of the carmel almost molasses smell, with some pine/spiciness. Light on the fruit/citrus. Home brew version is still very hoppy in aroma. Some pine, and weird fruit. It's my first time using Nelson Sauvin, so don't know exactly how to describe it, but it smells great.
Taste, the roastiness and bitterness are damn near perfect. Mine finished around 1.026. I was hoping for lower but was lazy and didn't do a starter and may have mashed high. That said, I thing body-wise they are pretty close, as did my co-taster. Stone may be sweeter. Little more hop flavor on the home brew, probably due to the age. The hop flavor that is present is really close, just a little stronger in the home brew. For 10%+ Black IPA, this is smooth.
Overall, I am not sure what I would change. Probably mash lower to get a bit drier for my personal preference. I think the grain and hops are close. Maybe scale back the sauvin a little and up the Jade a bit. Too bad it isn't a year round beer to compare fresh to fresh.
Now, which one is the real deal?:
sivdrinks
Well-Known Member
Yours is on the right. You said yours had better head retention!
socalhomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Warming up the water to steep grains now. Going to be making an extract version of this one. You dont really realize how much hops this thing is asking for until your buying them.
phoenixs4r
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socalhomebrewer said:
I think that to myself whenever I design an IPA on beer smith. I'm like, ya, mote hops! Then I get to the store and go, wtf was I thinking.
Well, your description and thoughts on changes are about spot on with mine although I used Simcoe and Cascade hops. This is a very smooth and tasty brew. I tasted the Stone and mine on the same day. Although the details of the hops are different, the flavor/aroma/bitterness intensity is about the same. Although the malt sweetness is about the same between the two, I prefer a drier brew. So, I would change a few things. I would use a more attenuating yeast (I believe mine was a Scottish Ale yeast but was rescued from Racer 5) and mash at lower temperature. I would also add my chocolate and carafa late in the mash to decrease the intensity of the roast.
Great brew just a little off my style ideal. My next dark brew is going to be somewhere between this an my Old Rasputin clone, which are really quite similar.
socalhomebrewer
Well-Known Member
I brewed this bad boy up on Saturday and surprisingly enough for me, it went off without a hitch really. The only hitch I hit was when I was toping off the carboy, I forgot that I also had a 2L starter that I needed to pour in, so my final volume was a little higher then expected and the starting gravity was a little lower. The only other issue was that my LHBS didnt have any Pacific Jade so I went with ahtanum. Had no logic behind the choice other then thinking, bet no one has tried this combo yet.
SLCRebellion
Member
I checked my gravity last night, and it is down to 1.014 and steady. Took a taste and this beer will rock. Lots of coffee, cocoa and of course alcohol, as mine will be about 9.5%. I can't wait to put it in the secondary on Friday, because I have a full pound of Nelson Sauvin that I am itching to get into beer!
Is there an online source for whole leaf Nelson Sauvin that someone can tell me about? Would love to try this hop. Only had it in the context of Escondidian Black IPA. Would love to see what it does in an APA or IPA.
SLCRebellion
Member
Brewitt said:
I have just seen pellets, but I just brewed an IPA with citra and Nelson, and then will be dry hopping with Nelson. I'll let you know.
SLCRebellion
Member
drawdy10 said:
Brew Brothers.biz The are outside of Portland, OR.
beerandloathinginaustin
Well-Known Member
Citra & Nelson combo is so money in my experience.
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
HEY! Don't you out of towners go taking all of their supply! Get your own awesome LHBS!
ScottRMitch
Member
Brewed this on Saturday but I had to make some changes to the hops based on what was available at my LHBS. It ended up having an O.G. of 1.090 and today it was down to 1.021 so I'm planning to move it to secondary this weekend most likely.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
drawdy10 said:
I counted 15 that replied to brewing this or some variation of it, and everyone seems to have positive feedback, which is great. I am glad everyone likes it. I know I am gonna brew it again soon. This is only my 2nd attempt at cloning something from scratch, so to be this close on the first try really surprised me (1st was 3 Floyds Zombie Dust, which is damn near spot on after several attempts).
On another note, If I remember right, the 2011 new Zealand hops were harvested around late march-early April, so those having trouble finding them should be in luck soon.
SaevaVeritas
Well-Known Member
To do a ten gallon batch would one simply double everything?!
SaevaVeritas
Well-Known Member
Also did you mash out on this?
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
SaevaVeritas said:
Mash 150 or so, single infusion, batch sparged at 168.
As far as the 10g goes, in theory, yes doubling the 5g ingredients should do it. That is assuming you hit the same efficiency. Are you doing all grain? If so, how big is your tun? That's a lot of grain, so you may lose some efficiency due to that.
SaevaVeritas
Well-Known Member
Yea I punched it in to brewpal and 10g at 40lbs of grain = too large.
skeezerpleezer said:
Okay wait a second here. Zombie Dust clone!? Now I need that! I love zombie dust. I have never even had stone 15th I just like the idea of it. But Zombie Dust is another story can you share that recipe as well or link me to it?
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Its in my recipe dropdown
Woz
Active Member
I can't wait to brew this. I was able to score one bottle about 2 months ago, loved it, and when I went for more it was already gone. I just got my hop order in tonight.
reverendnathan
Well-Known Member
I normally wouldn't reply to this thread, but a local bar just tapped this. As in, sat on it for six months in the fridge and just now got to tapping it.
Hol-ee crap. This is just... just WAY better six months later than fresh! The hops have subdued with a still existing bitter kick... but the excellent malt bill has taken over. This is world-class stuff, right here. Bitter, chocolate, roast, a little bit of... chalkiness? Does that make sense? It makes a freaking excellent beer. I'm not super-curious of the malt bill because given the age this may be the greatest large beer I've ever had. I really hope Stone weights in on the bill, here. They've got something good they shouldn't let go for a one-off brew.
Hol-ee crap. This is just... just WAY better six months later than fresh! The hops have subdued with a still existing bitter kick... but the excellent malt bill has taken over. This is world-class stuff, right here. Bitter, chocolate, roast, a little bit of... chalkiness? Does that make sense? It makes a freaking excellent beer. I'm not super-curious of the malt bill because given the age this may be the greatest large beer I've ever had. I really hope Stone weights in on the bill, here. They've got something good they shouldn't let go for a one-off brew.
Woz
Active Member
I'm having trouble matching the original recipe in brewsmith. I adjusted brewsmith preset alpha percentages for Citra from 12% to 12.4% and I've triple checked amounts and addition time. I'm getting 1.095 OG, only 87.9 IBUs and 52.0 SRM. What is going on? Thanks for any help. I think it must have to do with boil time and volume. The original still says 8 gallon volume, but only 60 minute boil down to 5.5 gallon batch size. No way that much is boiled off in an hour. Brewsmith is estimating my boil volume at 7.15.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
It should be 90 minute boil, I updated the original post. Efficiency could be another problem with the OG being off. Not sure what I used, probably 75%.
SaevaVeritas
Well-Known Member
I am going to try this recipe this weekend, can't wait!
Woz, depending on the presets you put in for your system you will get different numbers, and this is a good thing that way you know how you have to adjust recipes to get your intended beer. What I do when building recipes in beersmith 2 is pick your equipment profile, set the boil time and efficiency and everything then just put in 1 lb of each grain and click the adj pectentages button and match your clone then click the adjust gravity button and crank that up to your intended OG. For this recipe I needed like 3.5 extra lbs of pale malt and a little more of everything else to get to that OG on my system. If you are going to brew this I would target 6 gallons into the fermenter because that is what I did and I ended up with only 5 gallons in the bottling bucket after dry hop and grub loss. To ferment 6 gallons just use two carboys and fill them each with half the wort. Also, no need for secondary, I just dry hopped in the primary after one week. Hope this helps!
Woz
Active Member
Skeezer, if it is a 90 minute boil, do you hold the first hop addition and boil for 60 or add it at the start?
Woz
Active Member
Thank you, this help a lot and gave me a new insight into the design process in Brewsmith.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Woz said:
You can boil it the whole 90.
Woz
Active Member
So, I've rebuilt my recipe using drawdy10's tip and matched the OG and IBUs, but my color is still coming in light at 46 SRM. What gives?
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 79.4 %
1 lbs 12.4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.1 %
14.2 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.0 %
14.2 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
1 lbs Brown Sugar, Dark [Boil for15 min](50.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.5 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.40 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 71.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 25.1 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 8 3.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Pacific Jade [13.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 9 2.3 IBUs
2.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 79.4 %
1 lbs 12.4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.1 %
14.2 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.0 %
14.2 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
1 lbs Brown Sugar, Dark [Boil for15 min](50.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.5 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.40 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 71.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 25.1 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 8 3.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Pacific Jade [13.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 9 2.3 IBUs
2.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Woz said:
It may be the brown sugar in place or the dark Belgian candysetup (50 v 275 SRM). It is my first recipe with dark Belgian candy sugar, so maybe someone else can chime in on the differences you may get in flavor by using brown sugar.
So as I mentioned before I dry hopped one with Chinook and one with Amarillo/simcoe and though they are quite similar I definatley prefer the Chinook hopping. I encourage any one that cannot find nelson or made to just dry hop with your favorite variety. It doesn't make a huge difference since you get alot of the Citra coming thru.
Woz
Active Member
I didn't even notice that I put in brown sugar instead of dark candi sugar. I fixed that mistake and it brought me up to 53 SRM, still low but closer. I'll keep tinkering.
Woz
Active Member
I scored Nelson Sauvin, but expect to brew this one again and it is likely NS will be unavailable. I'm interested to hear from others who substituted.
