Couple questions re: Primary only technique

Hi Guys,

I normally secondary condition my beers, but my hand is being forced thanks to a stalled ferment on my wheat beer, which is hogging up my carboys.

I have an Irish Red that I'm going to leave in the Primary until bottling time, and I have a few questions on the technique.

1. The beer is currently in a plastic 30L bucket which I use as a primary. I think most people who do primary only use a carboy. Will I have any real issues by using this bucket as my primary only vessel versus a carboy?
2. Temperature - If the primary fermentation is done, and I'm down to 1.01 or so, can I complete the conditioning in my storage area, which is currently 55 degrees? This low temp is what stalled out my wheat beer in the first place. To avoid a repeat, I fermented the Irish Red at 68 in a closet. I'd like to get it out of the closet, and I've read that a cold crash can help with clarity?

Thanks for any input.

brock_gonad said:

Hi Guys,

I normally secondary condition my beers, but my hand is being forced thanks to a stalled ferment on my wheat beer, which is hogging up my carboys.

I have an Irish Red that I'm going to leave in the Primary until bottling time, and I have a few questions on the technique.

1. The beer is currently in a plastic 30L bucket which I use as a primary. I think most people who do primary only use a carboy. Will I have any real issues by using this bucket as my primary only vessel versus a carboy?
2. Temperature - If the primary fermentation is done, and I'm down to 1.01 or so, can I complete the conditioning in my storage area, which is currently 55 degrees? This low temp is what stalled out my wheat beer in the first place. To avoid a repeat, I fermented the Irish Red at 68 in a closet. I'd like to get it out of the closet, and I've read that a cold crash can help with clarity?

Thanks for any input.

Click to expand...

1) You think wrong, people long primary equally in buckets or carboys, it's really not an issue, and discussed in every thread on here on that topic/

2) I'm not sure what the question you're asking is, just about cold crashing? I never cold crash in my long primaries and my beer is crystal clear already. I don't have the facilities to cold crash, so I don't bother. If it works for you fine...but it's not mandatory to the process.

I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread. Just about every question you could have about long primaries (including both your questions) have been covered thoroughlyl in that thread.

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

+1 on both the above. Listen to their advice and you will make better beer.

ettbeer said:

some say plastic fermenting buckets are oxygen permeable.

Click to expand...

And some say it's way too insignificant to be even worth concerning yourself with for a month.......

so people that use carboys care for their beer more then people that use ale pails? that makes 0 sense.

ettbeer said:

depends on how much they care about the beer they're making

Click to expand...

That's a remarkable thing to say to/about Revvy.

To the OP: It's my understanding that there's no real problem with a few weeks at 55 degrees *as long as primary fermentation is over*, which is sounds like yours has done. I've not cold crashed beers (yet) but if people can cold crash for 24 hours at almost freezing temps, I can't imagine that 55 degrees would so thoroughly drop yeast as to leave none for carbing.

That being said, why put it downstairs? I leave my primaries in a closet (darkness) around 66-68 degrees for as long as five weeks without any problems. If you're worried about the loss of yeast, keep it where it is

I think the temperature and yeast "loss" because of colder conditions is highly dependent upon the yeast overall temperature range. I currently have my scottish ale conditioning at or around *61. I'm not worried about the yeast going to sleep because that is still well within its recommended fermentation temperature. If I had a Belgian Abbey yeast at 61 then it might experience more of a dramatic cell count loss due the yeast falling from suspension and going dormant.

ettbeer said:

depends on how much they care about the beer they're making

Click to expand...

Well, I've had 2 batches sitting 5 and six months, respectively, in buckets and they weren't oxidyzed. One of my brew buddies is a master BJCP judge, and he tastes all my beer, and one of those two batches happens to be one of his favorite beers of mine.

You're making generalizations about oxygen permeability the many, many of us on here have disproven.

So repeat the old party line if you want, believe what you want....but we we've been doing the long primary in a bucket for years now. There's been plenty of folks doing this an discussing this, longer than you've been on here.

*shrug*

Piratwolf said:

That's a remarkable thing to say to/about Revvy.

To the OP: It's my understanding that there's no real problem with a few weeks at 55 degrees *as long as primary fermentation is over*, which is sounds like yours has done. I've not cold crashed beers (yet) but if people can cold crash for 24 hours at almost freezing temps, I can't imagine that 55 degrees would so thoroughly drop yeast as to leave none for carbing.

That being said, why put it downstairs? I leave my primaries in a closet (darkness) around 66-68 degrees for as long as five weeks without any problems. If you're worried about the loss of yeast, keep it where it is

Click to expand...

First off - thanks to all for the comments. Didn't mean to restart the bucket vs. carboy debate or flame war, sorry.

Why not leave upstairs at 68? One word - SWIMBO.

See my original post about the wheat beer that stalled. I'm currently giving it a kick in the pants so it can finish fermenting, so that's two carboys in living area.

The Irish Red is another two pails, also in living area. Consider that I'm in downtown Vancouver and that my living area is very small, and you can imagine how having four fermentation vessels going in the bedroom is not what you may call "popular"

So yeah, I'm going to take hydrometer readings in the Irish Red for a couple of days here, and if the primary fermentation is over or nearly over, I probably will move it downstairs for a couple of weeks.

Just my 2 cents, I had a Vanilla Cream Ale that I bottled last weekend after sitting it outside in the snow at about 22 degrees for 7 hrs. Beer was super clear, I also left it on the primary yeast cake for 4 weeks. One advantage I saw from the brief cold crash was that the cake was extremely firm so when I went to move it for bottling, it was not disturbed at all. Made for racking a nice clear beer. As for losing to much yeast for bottling, I did not have an issue, cracked one open yesterday to check the progress and it is nearly fully carbed. I have a Pale Ale pitched with Wyeast Abbey that i am going to sit outside in my shed Sat and keg on Sunday, temps are going to get pretty cold here, around 12 degrees that night, hoping this produces a clear bear without freezing it!

dont worry bears will not freeze at that temperature, typically they do retreat to their winter dens.

brock_gonad said:

- SWIMBO.

Click to expand...

'Nuff said there, sir! I'd go downstairs, too! My guess is it will be fine.

brock_gonad said:

Why not leave upstairs at 68? One word - SWIMBO.

Click to expand...

You could use one of those wrap-around electric warmers to control your temp to where you want it if you have to take it out of the closet. I believe that the temp for conditioning phase (after main fermentation phase) should be same as the fermentation temp or slightly warmer to keep the yeast working. My hunch is that if you're fermenting at 68 in closet and then move it to 55 deg, the yeast will become less active and not complete the conditioning phase optimaly.

ChadChaney said:

Just my 2 cents, I had a Vanilla Cream Ale that I bottled last weekend after sitting it outside in the snow at about 22 degrees for 7 hrs. Beer was super clear, I also left it on the primary yeast cake for 4 weeks. One advantage I saw from the brief cold crash was that the cake was extremely firm so when I went to move it for bottling, it was not disturbed at all. Made for racking a nice clear beer. As for losing to much yeast for bottling, I did not have an issue, cracked one open yesterday to check the progress and it is nearly fully carbed. I have a Pale Ale pitched with Wyeast Abbey that i am going to sit outside in my shed Sat and keg on Sunday, temps are going to get pretty cold here, around 12 degrees that night, hoping this produces a clear bear without freezing it!

Click to expand...

+2 ....I cold crashed lots of 5 gal. buckets (alepail) down to 36F and they all carb up just fine and thats at the end of 4 weeks in primary only. The yeast settles out fantastic and goes back to work when warmed up. Cheers

I have cold crashed in a fridge for a week with no issue bottle carbing.. actually had a beer with ice crystals in it when racking to a bottling bucket that carbed just fine.

deleted