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There's other reasons to do a 60 minute boil besides bittering.

There's a few brewers in AU who have tried adding hops only to the cube, 10 minute IPA style but you'd still want to boil the wort to drive off volatiles, SMM/DMS etc.
 
thughes said:
The only adjustment to hopping schedule I make in deference to nc is: Any additions after 10 minutes I just toss in the no-chill container before draining the wort into it.

That being said, if I was making that recipe I'd just toss all the hops into the cube. I like the smooth bitterness you get from hop-bursting and have taken to moving all my hop additions, with the exception of a very small bittering charge, into the cube. It's surprising the amount of bitterness you do get (brewing software will calculate the IBU's much lower than it actually "tastes") but it is a much smoother bitterness....if that makes any sense. You have to try it to really understand what I am talking about.
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I think I am going to try this. You just described the reason I love Pliny so much...the bitterness is in the flavor and not the bite. It is very mellow for being such a hoppy beer. LOVE IT!!!

John
 
thughes said:
The only adjustment to hopping schedule I make in deference to nc is: Any additions after 10 minutes I just toss in the no-chill container before draining the wort into it.

That being said, if I was making that recipe I'd just toss all the hops into the cube. I like the smooth bitterness you get from hop-bursting and have taken to moving all my hop additions, with the exception of a very small bittering charge, into the cube. It's surprising the amount of bitterness you do get (brewing software will calculate the IBU's much lower than it actually "tastes") but it is a much smoother bitterness....if that makes any sense. You have to try it to really understand what I am talking about.
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Just a word of warning, this can result in loss of wort. I use an autosiphon and lose about .5 gallon if I've cube hopped. If you either dump through a strainer or keep your hops in a hop bag you should be fine, just know the risks of adding lose hops.
 
eulipion2 said:
Just a word of warning, this can result in loss of wort. I use an autosiphon and lose about .5 gallon if I've cube hopped. If you either dump through a strainer or keep your hops in a hop bag you should be fine, just know the risks of adding lose hops.
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A very valid point and something the OP or anyone else using this method must take into consideration.

I know that I will lose .75 gallon to the cube (hops, break, etc) so this loss is already figured into my brewing software and volume calculations. (I usually strain this leftover muck when I clean the cube and try to salvage a bit of wort which I can dilute and use for future starters, yeast experiments, etc.)
 
OK, I'm a bit slow. Are you saying I can take any recipe and let's just say leave the 60 min hop addition alone, but just add everything else to the cube? Interesting! I'd love to try that!
 
What about adding top off water at the end of the boil? Last night during my brew, I needed to top off with a little over a gallon of water to reach my 5 gallons. I just added tap water since it was late, but what is the best way to add top off water at the end of the boil?

My fear is that I lowered the wort temperature by adding the tap water when going into the cube? Should I have waited until racking into the fermenter to add the water? Boil water and add it hot into the cube? What are you guys doing?
 
As I understand it, guys are using those Winpak cubes because they're easy to purge air from, and there's no problem with deformation from the negative air pressure on cooling. What if we were to transfer the hot wort to a corny keg, but then purge and pressurize the headspace with CO2? The vacuum formed while cooling would be offset by the CO2 pressure, and you wouldn't have to worry about the corny being crushed.


Couple this with a closed-system pressurized fermention , and this sounds like a neat idea, IMO. :)

VacuumImplosion.jpg
 
GNBrews said:
As I understand it, guys are using those Winpak cubes because they're easy to purge air from, and there's no problem with deformation from the negative air pressure on cooling. What if we were to transfer the hot wort to a corny keg, but then purge and pressurize the headspace with CO2? The vacuum formed while cooling would be offset by the CO2 pressure, and you wouldn't have to worry about the corny being crushed.


Couple this with a closed-system pressurized fermention , and this sounds like a neat idea, IMO. :)
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I'm working on a no chill batch of Edwort's Haus Pale right now after a little absence from brewing for while. I had the same thought, but would you need to figure out a process for oxygenating the wort after it had cooled? Suppose you could just drop an oxygen stone in though.
 
Fozzie said:
I'm working on a no chill batch of Edwort's Haus Pale right now after a little absence from brewing for while. I had the same thought, but would you need to figure out a process for oxygenating the wort after it had cooled? Suppose you could just drop an oxygen stone in though.
Click to expand...

Bike pump + inline hepa filter + QD. Then shake the hell out of it and bleed excess pressure.
 
Are any of you no-chill brewers tasting your wort before you pitch the yeast? I'm talking about straight out of the no-chill container, after its cooled down. I only ask because something that is still bugging me about the no-chill process is that my wort tastes awful pre-fermentation. Its the same thing I've mentioned before - its a bitter, grassy, vegetal flavor and aroma. It doesn't seem to affect the finished beer - the fermentation seems to scrub most/all of it out. I'm still experimenting with different styles and recipes to see if this is always the case, though.

If its possible to avoid it, I would like to, but I am wondering if maybe it is just something inherent in the no-chill process. I take every opportunity to taste my beer at every stage of the process (first runnings from the mash, post-boil, pre-pitching, when racking to the secondary, into the keg) and this off-flavor bugs me (and I don't get it with normally chilled beers).

It doesn't seem to be affected much by the type of base malt or whether or not I put hops straight in the cube or if I whirlpool and keep them out. I've done 100% pilsner, 100% 2-row, 100% Maris Otter, cube hopped and not. I've also tried draining immediately into the cube, and I've tried whirlpooling until it drops below 190F before draining into the cube. I haven't tried getting it below 180F yet to see if that makes a difference - I'm scared to let it get too low and risk an ineffective pasteurization of my cube.
 
brrit said:
What about adding top off water at the end of the boil? Last night during my brew, I needed to top off with a little over a gallon of water to reach my 5 gallons. I just added tap water since it was late, but what is the best way to add top off water at the end of the boil?

My fear is that I lowered the wort temperature by adding the tap water when going into the cube? Should I have waited until racking into the fermenter to add the water? Boil water and add it hot into the cube? What are you guys doing?
Click to expand...

If you're boiling 1/2 the batch, you could always get one of the 2.5 gallon cubes. You could then add the water when you dump the wort into your bucket or carboy.
 
PickledFetus said:
Are any of you no-chill brewers tasting your wort before you pitch the yeast? I'm talking about straight out of the no-chill container, after its cooled down. I only ask because something that is still bugging me about the no-chill process is that my wort tastes awful pre-fermentation. Its the same thing I've mentioned before - its a bitter, grassy, vegetal flavor and aroma. It doesn't seem to affect the finished beer - the fermentation seems to scrub most/all of it out. I'm still experimenting with different styles and recipes to see if this is always the case, though.

If its possible to avoid it, I would like to, but I am wondering if maybe it is just something inherent in the no-chill process. I take every opportunity to taste my beer at every stage of the process (first runnings from the mash, post-boil, pre-pitching, when racking to the secondary, into the keg) and this off-flavor bugs me (and I don't get it with normally chilled beers).

It doesn't seem to be affected much by the type of base malt or whether or not I put hops straight in the cube or if I whirlpool and keep them out. I've done 100% pilsner, 100% 2-row, 100% Maris Otter, cube hopped and not. I've also tried draining immediately into the cube, and I've tried whirlpooling until it drops below 190F before draining into the cube. I haven't tried getting it below 180F yet to see if that makes a difference - I'm scared to let it get too low and risk an ineffective pasteurization of my cube.
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I do taste mine after pre-pitching, and it tastes the same as when I used an IC.
 
Mine tastes the same as the chilled stuff. Which is to say, not very good, but that's just me. I don't like that tangerine/malt flavor of unfermented wort. And my samples do not have any vegital flavor from the cube. I'd probably dump the batch if that's how it smelled and wouldnt even bother pitching.
 
Maybe I'm exaggerating how bad it is. I don't really like the taste of normal wort either, but it's a noticeable difference to me.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk
 
Mine tastes like wort. Sweet, bitter, not vegetal. I take a hydrometer sample before pitching the yeast and always smell/taste after measuring.
 
After reading about the first 50 or so pages, I took the leap yesterday!:rockin:

I brewed a no sparge, single wet hop, APA.

The hop schedule I use was ....
2.5oz hop as FWH
5 oz hop @40 min
5 oz for Dry Hop

I used locally grown nugget and estimated the AA @ 10%

I'll aerate with a stone for 20 minutes today and pitch a healthy slurry @65 degrees.

Bull
 
While I've been no-chilling for almost two years, my last few brews have had a lot of sludge at the bottom of my cube, to the point that the oatmeal stout I racked this evening last about a gallon to thick gunk. I have a 'hop taco'-type screen, and while it's got a couple leaks that would let some stuff in, I'm pretty sure they're not big enough to let that much in.

Anyone have a more effective method of filtering out hops and break during transfer to the cube? Or a better way of sealing off the edges of a hop taco?

Thanks in advance.
 
I have a screen attached to my drain spigot that hugs the side of my kettle. I start a good whirlpool and whirlpool it awhile. I get very little wort transfer that isn't clear. What you may be seeing is the cold break. Last batch I did a good whirlpool and just put the lid on my kettle and let it cool in the kettle. Again, I transferred very little that wasn't clear wort to my fermenters. There was so little "crap" (A technical term) with my yeast when I bottled, that I just saved the slurry without washing. I find no difference between just letting my wort cool in the kettle and draining to a fermenter to let cool. Comes out nice and clean tasting both ways. Hope that helps.
 
Brewed a blonde today. I left everything in the pot and covered with the lid and washcloths soaked in starsan. Then I put a plastic bag over the whole thing. Tomorrow I'll transfer to a 6.5 glass carboy, areate and pitch.
This couldn't be easier!
 
eulipion2 said:
While I've been no-chilling for almost two years, my last few brews have had a lot of sludge at the bottom of my cube, to the point that the oatmeal stout I racked this evening last about a gallon to thick gunk. I have a 'hop taco'-type screen, and while it's got a couple leaks that would let some stuff in, I'm pretty sure they're not big enough to let that much in.

Anyone have a more effective method of filtering out hops and break during transfer to the cube? Or a better way of sealing off the edges of a hop taco?

Thanks in advance.
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I use irish moss in the last few minutes of the boil, dump the whole kettle into the cube, and rack the clean wort into the FV after it's cooled...no screens, filters, whirl-pooling, etc. Basically I am moving my calculated kettle loss into the cube and then compensating for the total equipment loss (@ half gallon) in my calculations. YMMV.
 
thughes said:
I use irish moss in the last few minutes of the boil, dump the whole kettle into the cube, and rack the clean wort into the FV after it's cooled...no screens, filters, whirl-pooling, etc. Basically I am moving my calculated kettle loss into the cube and then compensating for the total equipment loss (@ half gallon) in my calculations. YMMV.
Click to expand...

My problem is that when my hop strainer is working properly my loss is less than a quart, but it seems that after only a few brews it's developed holes that allow trub to transfer. My oatmeal stout lost at least a gallon in the cube because the sludge was too thick for my auto-siphon to transfer.
 
I recently brewed 2 ales 'no chill' style just so I could weigh-in.

Taste wise they are fine but they have a definite haze now.

I found the time savings/ease of brewing benefeit to be very minimal if any.

Like "overnight mashing" and other shortcuts it isn't the best practice and really only divides the brewing day in two rather than actually saving time.

My 2 cents: It wont ruin your beer but its not the best way to do things either.
 
Cellarbrau said:
I recently brewed 2 ales 'no chill' style just so I could weigh-in.

...

I found the time savings/ease of brewing benefeit to be very minimal if any.

Like "overnight mashing" and other shortcuts it isn't the best practice and really only divides the brewing day in two rather than actually saving time.

My 2 cents: It wont ruin your beer but its not the best way to do things either.
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I agree. I did no-chill for awhile and was enthusiastic about it. But I started to resent the unpitched wort out there in the garage, requiring another processing step during the week to pour into fermenters and pitch yeast. I find it a lot more satisfying to spend the extra 25 minutes or so on brewday and be done with it. I also prefer not having to worry about hop adjustments for maximum flavor and aroma in my IPAs.

There is one real benefit, and thats brewing in the winter, and not having to get the hose out. Here in VA I generally can get a day in the 40's to brew during any month of the winter, but if I lived someplace that was colder, no-chill would facilitate brewing through the winter.
 
Cellarbrau said:
I recently brewed 2 ales 'no chill' style just so I could weigh-in.

Taste wise they are fine but they have a definite haze now.

I found the time savings/ease of brewing benefeit to be very minimal if any.

Like "overnight mashing" and other shortcuts it isn't the best practice and really only divides the brewing day in two rather than actually saving time.

My 2 cents: It wont ruin your beer but its not the best way to do things either.
Click to expand...

I respect the fact that you have tried the method before commenting, most seem to just parrot what they heard/read elsewhere. Even so, making a blanket statement as to the effectiveness of a particular technique after only doing it twice is really not a fair assessment. I have been no-chill brewing for 6 months now and I will pit the clarity of my product against anything out there (home brewed or commercial). It's amazing what some irish moss, a few weeks in primary, and a decent cold-crash will do for the clarity of any beer.

No-chill is not a "shortcut", it is an alternative method that is just as credible as using an IC, plate chiller, etc. I do take offense to the assertion that "it isn't the best practice" and "its not the best way to do things either" as that infers that whatever way you happen to do things is the "best" way. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post?

Respect for all techniques and "thinking outside of the box" has lead to some interesting innovation in home brewing. Just my .02. ;)
 
Cellarbrau said:
I recently brewed 2 ales 'no chill' style just so I could weigh-in.

Taste wise they are fine but they have a definite haze now.

I found the time savings/ease of brewing benefeit to be very minimal if any.

Like "overnight mashing" and other shortcuts it isn't the best practice and really only divides the brewing day in two rather than actually saving time.

My 2 cents: It wont ruin your beer but its not the best way to do things either.
Click to expand...

The advantages of no-chill are far more than time saving.

In my country there are restrictions on how much water people use and for good reason. That's one advantage.

Making sure you have the correct amount of appropriate, healthy yeast is another (big one for me). If your starter doesn't fire or gets an infection or whatever, you have the luxury of making another with no-chill.

If I wanted to save time, I wouldn't brew full mash. I enjoy the time I spend brewing so time is not a major factor.

I've brewed probably hundreds of NC brews, some of which have won categories in state and local comps and almost all of which are completely clear. I use no filters, finings (kettle finings excepted) or polyclar and find I can read through the glass with most beers. The idea that NC in and of itself causes haze is a furphy.

What works for you works for you and good on you for having a crack. If you see no advantage for you and your system then there's no point to continue to use the method. However it is a long way from worst practice and in my experience and knowledge is a far cry from 'shortcuts' like overnight mashing.

It's also been pretty well established by possibly thousands of brewers that it won't ruin your beer. Anyone who believes it might should also stop believing in fairies and dryads.
 
My last 2 brews have been NC and while the verdict is still out on the final product, I have no doubt in my mind about this process.

I will always be one to experiment, but this method will become my regular process. The benefits of doing a RWS every time is reason enough.

The hop schedule modification is no different than any recipe modification and may require a time or two to get it down.

I love the time spent brewing, but really don't mind knocking some time off it.

Last but not least, I believe the level of sanitation with this method is superior to open chilling with a IC. :mug:

Bull
 
I have just been doing all 60-30 minute additions as FWH and all 30-0 minute additions in the cube, the testing is far from conclusive but I am liking the results so far.
 
The biggest benefit for me is that I don't have an outdoor water source, and my indoor faucets are the fancy "designer" types (really need to have a chat with my landlord), so I have no way of running a chiller. My beers have turned out consistently delicious, and after some time in the fridge are crystal clear. Also, the savings on water are pretty nice.

This method is a godsend. Chillers are nice for those who can, but for those who can't, this is awesome!
 
I'm not saying that my system is anything special. Just adding my own limited experience to the discussion.

And I will emphasize that the difference is very minimal. I can still read the lettering embossed on the glass through my dark mild. It's just not brilliantly clear like it is when I chill quickly.
 
The comment above is very interesting. The results are in from the first batch.

I kegged an APA done with this method about 10 days ago and I added some geletin to the keg.

The beer is pouring clear, and I can read through the glass, but it doesn't seem as polished as a normal beer would be.

I'm quite happy with the results and wouldn't hesitate serving it to anyone or entering it into a competition.

I think it may just need another week or so.

The second batch (Blonde) is sitting in the primary and will be transfered soon.

I'll brew 2 beers (Belgin Wit and Cream Ale) next week with this method and keep posting the results.

I really want to try this with an IPA, but untill I secure some Simcoe, it's just not worth it!

Bull
 
bullinachinashop said:
The comment above is very interesting. The results are in from the first batch.

I kegged an APA done with this method about 10 days ago and I added some geletin to the keg.

The beer is pouring clear, and I can read through the glass, but it doesn't seem as polished as a normal beer would be.

I'm quite happy with the results and wouldn't hesitate serving it to anyone or entering it into a competition.

I think it may just need another week or so.

The second batch (Blonde) is sitting in the primary and will be transfered soon.

I'll brew 2 beers (Belgin Wit and Cream Ale) next week with this method and keep posting the results.

I really want to try this with an IPA, but untill I secure some Simcoe, it's just not worth it!

Bull
Click to expand...

Some brewers see a dulling of the hop edges on hop centered beers. I no-chill most of my brews, put pull out the immersion chiller when brewing IPAs and such.
 
manticle said:
The idea that NC in and of itself causes haze is a furphy.
Click to expand...

I'm setting up an eBIAB system and fixing to order a couple winpaks for no-chill. I love the brewing info the aussies have come up with here, not to mention learning a new word. heh, furphy.
 
This is a loooooooong thread. I'm on page 10 right now. I plan to read the entire thread. Be back in a week -- maybe -- later.
 
chucke said:
Some brewers see a dulling of the hop edges on hop centered beers. I no-chill most of my brews, put pull out the immersion chiller when brewing IPAs and such.
Click to expand...

Well, the results are in...
The Blond was great,
The APA was my favorite, but never did get crystal clear. Mostly because of the dry hopping.
The Wit tastes the same as all the prievious Wit's I've made. Yummy!
The Cream Ale is very smooth and creamy. As it should be, but didn't clear as well either.

I did 90 min boils on them all.

All but the Blond were just left in the pot to cool for 1-2 days, transfered to glass, aerated and then pitched.

I cover the rim area of my pot with towels soaked in star san and then cover the whole thing with a plastic bag.

Some other notes.. It's amazing how much break settles out over the 1-2 day cooling period. On the last 2 batches, after siphoning off the clear wort, I poured the break through a paint strainer bag to get the last gallon for the fermentor!

I may try irish moss on my next batch to see if the break will be any tighter.

Next up will be in no particular order... Very hoppy APA, Red Hook clone and an Irish Red.

Bull
.
 

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