PID with two heating elements and how to wire it?

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diS

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Hello to all of you!

I have dilemma on how to connect and wire two heating elements and one PID, I hope someone will help me out with this.

This is my setup:
Auberins SYL-2352
2 SSRs 25A
2 Heat sinks
2 2000w 220V heating elements (both in HLT)

I will use two heating elements (2 x 2000w) in my HLT, and I would like to be able to turn on both of them or only one to heat and maintain water temperature.

They will both work at the start, when water temperature is reached PID will turn off both of them and I will turn off one of them (with switch) and let the other one to maintain temperature.

I searched through forum and I found that they have to be wired in parallel, can I use one of these wiring diagrams (and which one) to wire it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-brewing-question-167052/#post1931368

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-two-5500-watt-element-1-pid-ssr-build-281085/#post3485613

What dou you think about this idea, can it be done or maybe it is wiser to connect both heating elements so they run as single one (if I run them as single one do I need two SSRs)?
 
doing what you are looking for is very doable! You will need a contractor for each element then you can switch one or both elements off. You would want to auto tune your PID to the single element so it functions correctly when up to temp.

The the diagrams you show will power one or the other not both. you would need something that has at least one ssr fired off the pid and two contractors (or strong enough switches) on switches, one of the elements can just be wired up with the contractor so when the switch is on its on the other one gets fired per the pid
 
OP, I would think you could just run the SSR's with a jumper line between the two + posts from the PID, and put a toggle switch between the two SSR's so the other one is "dead" to the PID.
PID + to SSR 1, Jumper to toggle switch, toggle switch to SSR 2 +.
 
I'm curious why you feel having one turn off completely is of any advantage? Is it so that you have some capacity to run the boil kettle?

I'm wondering the same as well. Won't the pid take care of everything? Why not just run one 4000w element and use the pid to scale back the temp, I don't see the advantage to having 2 heating elements.
 
I already have 2000kw elements from previous setup, so I would like to employ these two.

@jtsims21I & onthekeg

I am trying to figure what you said (and have hard time with it since my electrician knowledge is for shame..).
Is this jumper:
Western Electric Wax wires Bi-Wire Speaker Jumper Cable | eBay
toggle switch:
3-Pin SPDT ON-OFF-ON Toggle Switch 6A 125VAC | eBay
and contractor:
LC1-0910 M7 Safety Electric Circuit AC Contactor Switch 25A | eBay??

@Bobby_M
Main reason is associate with AC power available to my whole house which is 4.4kw on each of 3 phases (13.2kw overall), so when PID runs 2 heaters there is reduced power on 2 phases which can cause in break on that phase (if someone else in house load that phase), not big deal but pretty PITA..

Another purpose is to disable frequently firing SSRs which should decrease heating of them.
It is not big deal if I have to run both heaters at the time, but it would be nice to prevent phase break and SSRs overheat.
 
Any wire of the proper gauge can be a jumper wire. Essentially you have a + wire from your PID to SSR 1, and a wire from this post to the same post on SSR 2. Cut the wire in the middle and run it to your toggle switch. Its low voltage, so pretty much any light wire you have will work.

You will only need a OFF ON toggle switch for this. When its off, only one element fires, when its on, both will fire.
 
Thanks!
So you are saying to put toggle switch between +wire on SSRs input from PID.
Would this diagram work (made by P-J on other thread), I"ll be using two pumps also:


or remove upper switches and put jumper w/switch:
 
I would do it like the bottom picture. You can use a cheaper switch, but its up to you.
 
So this would work?
Great!!

I will probably use selector switch for PID and pumps and system power key with LED light.

One question, what is purpose of buzzer, and do I need it?
I read that it is in relation with alarm (PID or timer), I dont know if Auberins 2352 have sound alarm already...
 
Can I use 3 position switch like this to control PID and heaters?:
izrezakf.jpg


It would be wired on this way:
OFF- PID and heaters are off
position 1- PID is on, both heaters are on
position 2- PID is on, one heater is on, other is turned off

Instead of this I could use two toggle switches (one for PID and other for turning off one heater), but this 3-way switcher seems like better option.
What do you think, can it be wired on this way?
 
I modified PJs diagram and this is how it looks, I know it probably isn't good but I gave best from myself (don't laugh, its my 1st try in wiring):

80634951.jpg


I am sure that SSR cant have two plus inputs but I didn't know how to connect it correctly.
Also, I added buzzer with momentary switch for turning alarm off.

Please comment/criticize.
 
You need a internal main disconnect to turn off power when you are away from the unit or cleaning. Otherwise you will have line voltage on everything all the time.

Also you should be able to run both elements off one 220V 30A plug. If they are 110V elements then one runs on one leg and the other off the other leg. If they are 220V elements then both bridge across the 220V.
 
that will still flip both ssrs because they are jumpered together.

I thought about that too, is there different way to wire it, or I"ll have to use 2 switches (one for PID which will fire both elements, and other which will turn off one of them)?

You need a internal main disconnect to turn off power when you are away from the unit or cleaning. Otherwise you will have line voltage on everything all the time.

I am still thinking about main power switch.
Options are 2-position switch and Emergency power off button, or both of them.. I would like to have switch for turn off when cleaning and also when I am not brewing, but I read that E-stop switch is desirable because of safety reasons.

Can I use one switch (like this) for both reasons?

Also you should be able to run both elements off one 220V 30A plug. If they are 110V elements then one runs on one leg and the other off the other leg. If they are 220V elements then both bridge across the 220V.

Can you please give me more detailed information about this?
What kind of plug is this and where is it located?
 
Here is the wiring difference.

For the 110VAC elements you would use two 110V 30 Amp plugs - they are available from Lowes and Home Depot. The blades look like this | - with the regular round ground hole right below and the plug fits a standard outlet box & outlet cover. The ground side of the plug would stay wired together but you need to separate the hot side by beaking off a small metal tab on the side.

The plug that goes to the wall is still a standard dryer plug.

I attached a simple drawing of how the elements are controlled.

110VAC verses 220VAC wiring.jpg
 
Hi thargrav, thank you very much for help!
It means a lot to me.

Elements are 220V (2000w), but since I need to connect them to different phases I need two 220v plugs.
Would this be right:
80634951.jpg


These two switches are for control power supply of heating elements, if this is true I don't need switch on jumper between the two + posts from the PID?

Where would you put main power switch (to turn off elements, PID and pumps), and also what kind of switch is suitable for that?

Thanks again!
 
The safety disconnect would be wired so that it disconnects both sides of the 220VAC where it comes into the box. You could use a panel mounted breaker that would double as a overload protector or you could use one of the push button style kill switches. Just make sure it is 2 pole and opens up bothe sides of the line.

For 1 or 2 element control you could add one more toggle switch between one of the SSRs and the PID. Flip the switch open and that SSR would stay off.
 
I changed diagram minute after you posted :)

Can I control element by switches I inserted above? That is main power switch which sends AC to SSR.. so if SSR dont have 220V power it can"t turn on element.
Also, why do I need these two switches (I saw many diagrams without them)?

Would this be appropriate for main power switch:
1 pcs Key Switch ON/OFF Lock Switch 11.3x24mm S1203-8 | eBay
 
No, for several reasons.

It's only rated for 1 Amp at 250V.
It will only disconnect one side of the 220V line.
What are you going to do if you need to turn things off in a hurry and can't find the key?

I went looking for a push button emergency stop switch on eBay and everything is only rated at 10 Amps.

So instead I looked for 30 Amp breakers and found this one that can be panel mounted.
BLUE SEA 7238 CIRCUIT BREAKER AA2 30A WHT 7238 (632085072384) | eBay

I also found them here for less - eBay is not always a deal:
Blue Sea 7238 Circuit BRKR 30 Amp White Double Pole

It's a 2 pole breaker - you would run your two 220VAC hot wires into one side then feed out of the other side to your controls.
 
...
It will only disconnect one side of the 220V line.
...
Just something to keep in mind. The OP is from Croatia. Power distribution is very different there. 220V AC is delivered as a hot and a neutral. The neutral is at ground potential and 120V is not available there.

With his situation the switches do not need to be double pole devices.
 
Just something to keep in mind. The OP is from Croatia. Power distribution is very different there. 220V AC is delivered as a hot and a neutral. The neutral is at ground potential and 120V is not available there.

With his situation the switches do not need to be double pole devices.

I need to gain much more competency with two-phase 240V before taking any graduate level three-phase courses from you guys, lol.
 
Just something to keep in mind. The OP is from Croatia. Power distribution is very different there. 220V AC is delivered as a hot and a neutral. The neutral is at ground potential and 120V is not available there.

With his situation the switches do not need to be double pole devices.

This is true everywhere in Europe.
 
I am looking to do something similar.

Two 120V legs
Two 2000W elements with switches
E Stop
Two SSR's
PID
Two pumps with switches

How can I put a main on/off keyed switch?
 
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