Cherry Stout Recipe -- Thoughts?

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plankbr

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Any input wold be greatly appreciated as I am looking to do this for my 'Holiday' brew using 10 lbs. of tart cherries:

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Stout
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.056
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.072
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 7.11%
IBU (tinseth): 58.39
SRM (morey): 40

FERMENTABLES:
9.5 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (71.7%)
1 lb - American - Roasted Barley (7.5%)
0.75 lb - American - Chocolate (5.7%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 90L (7.5%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3.8%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Oats (3.8%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 27.11
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 20.84
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.04
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.4

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

Pitch yeast, ferment at 68 – 70°F for ten days.
Rack to secondary with 10 lbs. cherries. Age three weeks. Prime with corn sugar, bottle and condition for three weeks or more.
Thanks!
 
I've never brewed a stout before and was wondering if I'm using too much of chocolate.
 
Thanks! I thought about the amount of cherries, but reading many people's experiences, 5 lbs. never seemed to be enough to bring out any of the cherry flavor.
 
In my limited experience, "bringing out" the flavor is a mixed bag. I've had a number of strawberry ales, for instance, and the only tolerable ones were the very, very subtly fruited beers.
 
I agree with Trail on the amount of cherries. You probably won't need more than 1.5 lbs per gallon at the most. The hops actually look quite excessive to me also. Generally you don't have a whole lot of hop character in a stout, especially one you are putting fruit into. The exception to that would be a very dank and earthy hop. The amount of chocolate malt though is spot on.
 
I am definitely open to modifying the recipe. I thought 1.5 lbs per gallon was for puree (I could be wrong though). What hops would you suggest? This will only be my 2nd AG brew.
 
Fuggle/Goldings/Willamette are traditional!

Fuggle and Goldings were ones I was thinking about. I also thought of Perle as a possibility. And if you are just going for bittering Magnum is a great choice as it is very very clean.
 
I would drop the bittering level to around 20-30 IBUs, because your tart cherries will add to that perceived bitterness. I would simply do a 60 minute addition of a UK hop or a clean one like Magnum as suggested before.

I'm fine with the fruit amount. I tend to think of 1 lb per gallon as a minimum, and if you truly want no doubts at all of being a cherry beer, go for it. It may thin it out some, so if you stick with 10 lbs, then I'd recommend upping your flaked oats for more body or keeping your mash temp on the high side.

Whether for eating or brewing, I prefer dried fruit (cutting my additions down to the 1-1.5 lbs per 5 gallon batch range). You might consider replacing some of your fresh fruit with dried cherries for some added character.
 
You could try adding some vanilla beans. Vanilla is an addition that can accentuate other flavors. Maybe it will help bring out more cherry like it does for chocolate.
 
If I use Magnum, that's ~1/2 oz for the 60 min boil to achieve 26 IBU's with upping the flaked oats to 1 lb. Does this sound correct?:
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.075
Final Gravity: 1.019
ABV (standard): 7.36%
IBU (tinseth): 26.65
SRM (morey): 40

FERMENTABLES:
9.5 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (69.1%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 90L (7.3%)
1 lb - American - Roasted Barley (7.3%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (7.3%)
0.75 lb - American - Chocolate (5.5%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.65

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

NOTES:
Mash:
16 quarts water to 164°F
60 minutes at 152°F.

Sparge:
16 quarts water to 170°F

Pitch yeast, ferment at 68 – 70°F for ten days.
Rack to secondary with 10 lbs. cherries. Age three weeks. Prime with corn sugar, bottle and condition for three weeks or more.
 
Thanks for all your help in refining this recipe!! Super excited to make this and the wife is really looking forward to it. She wanted a Bell's Cherry Stout clone but the Montmorency cherries were too hard to find out of season. This recipe looks amazing!
 
Just out of curiosity, what would change if I substituted Pale 2-row malt in place of the Maris Otter? (other than the obvious abv...)
 
Nice recipe. I brewed a sour cherry stout a few weeks ago, tried the first one this morning. Delicious. Very similar to yours.

I used 8 lbs of sour cherries and it's a bit much. I suppose it may soften with time, but I'm wondering if I would've preferred it with 5-6 lbs. Also, 8 lbs was roughly 1 gallon of cherry juice at 52 ppg.
Vanilla was a good suggestion above. I added 1 tbsp, and wish I would've done 2 or 3. I added some oak cubes too.
The other other suggestion I have is black patent malt. To me it gives more of a dark fruit character compared to roasted barley, almost like what you get from really good coffee. Works great with the cherries. I used 1/2 lb of each.
 
Nice recipe. I brewed a sour cherry stout a few weeks ago, tried the first one this morning. Delicious. Very similar to yours.

I used 8 lbs of sour cherries and it's a bit much. I suppose it may soften with time, but I'm wondering if I would've preferred it with 5-6 lbs. Also, 8 lbs was roughly 1 gallon of cherry juice at 52 ppg.
Vanilla was a good suggestion above. I added 1 tbsp, and wish I would've done 2 or 3. I added some oak cubes too.
The other other suggestion I have is black patent malt. To me it gives more of a dark fruit character compared to roasted barley, almost like what you get from really good coffee. Works great with the cherries. I used 1/2 lb of each.

Can you post the recipe? This sounds like something I'd like to brew.
 
Sure. Very similar to OP's recipe. Based off Charlie P.'s cherry fever stout.

Cherry Stout - Jubilee
1.066 OG // 1.017 FG // 6.25 gallons @ 85% eff
5 lbs Pale Ale Malt
4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb C15 (could sub flaked barley; I had C15 on hand)
0.5 lb C120
0.5 lb Chocolate Malt (350L)
0.5 lb Roasted Barley (500L)
0.5 lb Black Patent (550L)
60m mash @ 156F; 1.33 qts/lb

8 lbs Sour Cherries (~1g @ 1.052) added @ Flameout

1.5 oz Willamette @ 60 min (~35 IBU)
0.5 oz Willamette @ Flameout

At flamout, add hops & cherries and steep for 30 mins at ~160F. I bagged the hops & cherries in separate bags. After 30 mins, I chilled down to pitching temp, pulled the hop bag, and dumped everything else into the fermenter, including the bag of cherries.

Conan yeast @ 67F, ramped to 72F at day 3
Day 5 - Removed bag of cherries
Day 11 - Racked to secondary onto wine-soaked soak cubes, 1 tbsp vanilla extract, and 2 tbsp bourbon
Day 28 - Bottled. Primed to 2 vols CO2.
 
Especially with tart fruit, I would do ~ 0.5 lb/gallon. I just did a blackberry oatmeal stout at that rate, and it was very tart. Though I did add the berries during primary, so I wasn't expecting sweetness. Also just wondering if the dextrin malt is necessary if you can just add more oats.
 
So do you think 5 lbs. is sufficient in 2ndary? I have read many reviews where the flavor is a bit muted and most posters wished they would have upped their cherry content to >5 lbs. I don't want overkill on the cherries yet I also don't want a muted flavor as well. Feeling a bit perplexed here.
 
My only data point is that 8 lbs was too much for my liking. These were homegrown, handpicked, fresh, sour cherries.

Edit: 8lbs with pits
 
Is that 8lbs with pits or without? (My sources indicate that removing the pits subtracts about 10% from the weight)
 
So I've subbed out the original hops to make this all American. I have 1 oz of Columbus hops. Question:
Is 1 oz too much for bittering? I've adjusted the recipe for 0.75 oz and was wondering if the 0.25 can be used as a late boil addition for possibly aroma. Thoughts?:

Title: All American Cherry Stout
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Stout
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.057
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.019
ABV (standard): 7.32%
IBU (tinseth): 43.55
SRM (morey): 40

FERMENTABLES:
9.5 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (67.9%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 90L (7.1%)
1 lb - American - Roasted Barley (7.1%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (7.1%)
0.75 lb - American - Chocolate (5.4%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3.6%)
0.25 lb - American - Black Malt (1.8%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 16.3, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 43.55

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)
 
plankbr said:
So do you think 5 lbs. is sufficient in 2ndary? I have read many reviews where the flavor is a bit muted and most posters wished they would have upped their cherry content to >5 lbs. I don't want overkill on the cherries yet I also don't want a muted flavor as well. Feeling a bit perplexed here.

Sour cherries vs regular Cherries makes a huge difference. I made an imperial cherry vanilla stout 3 years ago and friend of mine liked it so much, he made made his own batch. The only difference was he made his with sour cherries. We both used 7 lbs, but got pretty different amounts cherry flavor. I think 7-8 pounds sour cherries is good; but I would use 10 pounds of regular cherries, or possibly more.

If it were me, I would go ahead and use the 10 pounds you have. If it is too much, then you can just wait for the cherry flavor to mellow. That's what we had to do.
 
So I went to GFS (Gordon Food Services) last night and procured 2x5lb bags of tart cherries. Ingredients say: Tart Cherries. Nothing else! That's more than I was expecting. I am really stoked there are no preservatives in there. Will be either racking on cherries in secondary today or tomorrow once I get my 6.5 gallon glass carboy.
 
I've done cherry stouts before and add 1lb/gal cherries. I use the frozen ones for market.
 
10 lbs. Tart cherries added to 6.5 lb. carboy and stout racked onto cherries!
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Update: I transferred to secondary Saturday evening on top of the cherries. I hit my stout FG @ 1.017. I assumed there would be a secondary fermentation and sure enough there is.

OG: 1.063
FG: 1.017
6.04% ABV

My question is since there is obviously another fermentation happening with the sugars from the tart cherries, how will that affect the next FG?
 
Unless you checked the juice gravity with a refractometer, it's hard to say. But my guess is that they were less than your base beer OG, but it should dry out. So I suspect you'll return to about the same FG after all is said and done.
 
I made a 1 gallon Traverse City Black Cherry wine for my wife last fall which I used 6 lbs of cherrys to make. I racked the wine and left a 1/2 inch of cherry sediment in the 1 gallon carboy, then I racked a gallon of Double Chocolate Stout on top of that. It's settling out now, should be ready to mini-keg in a few days. I tasted it and it's awesome. I didn't want an over powering chocolate or cherry flavor. I'd say it's just a slight bit more than a "hint" of both.

1170734_10153156332795024_314303284_n.jpg
 
Unless you checked the juice gravity with a refractometer, it's hard to say. But my guess is that they were less than your base beer OG, but it should dry out. So I suspect you'll return to about the same FG after all is said and done.

Not sure what you mean by juice gravity? These were whole cherries.
 
Yeah, I went and purchased a 6.5 gallon carboy because I didn't' think I would have enough space ion a 5 gallon carboy with 10 lbs. of cherries in there.
 
UPDATE:

Bottled tonight after nearly 2 weeks racked onto cherries in 2ndary.
Results:
Actual OG = 1.063, projected OG = 1.068
Actual FG of Stout, 1.017, projected OG = 1.017
FG after cherries = 1.012
Total ABV = 6.69%

Totally stoked about the results!
I tasted the batch, it's a bit tart still. I am hoping this will mellow out and the stout will take over after being bottled tonight and very drinkable around Christmas.

Anyone with experience on this have any insight?

Thanks!
 
plankbr said:
Totally stoked about the results! I tasted the batch, it's a bit tart still. I am hoping this will mellow out and the stout will take over after being bottled tonight and very drinkable around Christmas. Anyone with experience on this have any insight? Thanks!

I did a blackberry stout that ended up super uber ridiculously tart. After a month in a keg, it was subdued to the point that I could tell it was a stout again, but I still think the berries were not ripe enough and I put the fruit in too early.

I think 2 months in a bottle conditioned environment will be very good.
 
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