Heady Topper

Subscribing! Thought I read they use some hop extract in this...but don't quote me on that.

I just did this recipe:


10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.3 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 27.6 %
10.6 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 4.0 %
10.6 oz Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
0.41 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 17.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 20.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 5.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg tank 7 Yeast 8 -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

I used yeast from a 750ml bottle of tank 7 and pitched at 65 and let it free rise to around 85 peak. The aroma and flavor are overwhelmingly pineapple. Like opening a can of pineapple chunks and taking a big swallow of the juice.

I've seen many people recommend Amarillo and simcoe but since I let this saison yeast get pretty high I'm thinking a good portion of this flavor came from the yeast. If I used a more Ipa favorable malt bill and upped the hops considerably it may be close. Then again I've never had heady topper so who knows.

I was up at the Three Penny Taproom's 3rd Anniversary Party last weekend and they had a keg of Heady Topper Double Dry Hopped with Amarillo. It was being talked about by the locals as being a variation of the standard Heady Topper. It was fantastic and seemed a touch more fruity than the regular Heady. What it also suggested to me is that what makes it a variant then would either be the use of amarillo and/or the double dry hopping.

One thing that I did notice while drinking regular cans of Heady Topper is just how apparent the hop extract is. I know extract is supposed to mainly contribute to bitterness, but I feel that when used at a certain level it gives a flavor character to the beer as well.

koopa said:

I was up at the Three Penny Taproom's 3rd Anniversary Party last weekend and they had a keg of Heady Topper Double Dry Hopped with Amarillo. It was being talked about by the locals as being a variation of the standard Heady Topper. It was fantastic and seemed a touch more fruity than the regular Heady. What it also suggested to me is that what makes it a variant then would either be the use of amarillo and/or the double dry hopping.

One thing that I did notice while drinking regular cans of Heady Topper is just how apparent the hop extract is. I know extract is supposed to mainly contribute to bitterness, but I feel that when used at a certain level it gives a flavor character to the beer as well.

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, how can one differentiate between hop extract and boiled hops? I imagine I have had some beers (other than Heady Topper) with hop extract, but never got any distinct flavor that would say hop extract unless I knew it was there. I wonder how many big breweries use it in their IPAs.

Their new beer is out. Celia saison. It's made with sorgum and brewed with orange peel. And it is a gluten free beer. This one comes in 12 oz bottles.

Is it good?

skeezerpleezer said:

Just out of curiosity, how can one differentiate between hop extract and boiled hops? I imagine I have had some beers (other than Heady Topper) with hop extract, but never got any distinct flavor that would say hop extract unless I knew it was there. I wonder how many big breweries use it in their IPAs.

Click to expand...

I'm sure lots of breweries use it at moderate to low levels that are undetectable to anybodies palate (self included) but a few breweries use it at a higher concentration that I feel is detectable flavor wise. These examples all seem to have a similar flavor note that I attribute to the higher concentration of hop extract.

I've also had experiences at one bar I go to where a another homebrewer I know has brought hop extract into the bar and "dosed" peoples glasses with it. For example he came up to me and asked me what I was drinking. I told him a saison and he asked me if I wanted it to be an IPA. I said I had no idea what he was talking about but I liked IPA's. He proceeded to dose my glass with extract and I then got to taste the effect it had (post boil) on the flavor. After dosing to a certain degree he asked me if it was "too much" for me and I advised no. He then said lets try to find your hop extract threshold and kept adding it until it was stiff enough for me to tell him to stop. It was an interesting experience indeed.

I may have to get some to try out. It could be very beneficial in big IPAs, reducing the loss to absorption.

Found it!

j1laskey said:

Found it!


View attachment 61129

Click to expand...

where?

Vuc's boat side . Salem MA

Vuc's boat side . Salem MA

Vics

I still can't figure out what hops they use. I'm doing some research right now though...

i just brewed an all citra pale and i know they were brewing this before citra came out, but i think it's in there now.

I've had heady topper a few times over the past year. Courtesy of a few friends who like to trade beer (NC here, so no normal distribution). The first time I tried HT I was blown away with the hop flavor and aroma combined with what tastes like a low IBU (for a IIPA). But, by the 3rd time trying it, what really stood out was the overall sweetness of the beer. koopa (page 4) mentioned some VT locals degassed a can and took a gravity reading of 1.010. This surprised me because it tasted more like 1.014 +

I have brewed a few clones (shot in the darks) of this with .33 oz of CTZ / Centennial / Citra (1 oz total for each addition) added 30 minutes, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 2, and flame out. The point was to try and reach HT's high flavor and aroma while keeping the IBUs low (due to my comment above). And dry hop'd with 1/2 oz citra, 1/2 oz centennial, and 1/2 oz CTZ.

My "clones" always came out with more IBUs than the original and the sweetness seemed to be low. The flavor and aroma were good in their own right. But, not a match. There must be something in VT's water that brings out that great flavor. : /

Tried it for the first time a few nights ago. The bartender recommended it, and I didn't even know what it was. It's a awesome place. Had it with some beef tongue, cod cheeks, and calves liver mouse. So good

j1laskey said:

Vics

Click to expand...

Can't find Vic's boat side on google maps. Do you have an address?

hickdog said:

Can't find Vic's boat side on google maps. Do you have an address?

Click to expand...

I am guessing you mean Vic's Boathouse in the Victoria Station Restaurant?

I was up in VT a couple of weeks ago and got some fresh Heady cans. This batch pretty much tastes like hop extract, centennial, and citra to me! Definitely lacking some of the simcoe glory that I've experienced previously.

I've been drinking Heady Topper on tap/cask since 2008 and it always tasted around 1.010 FG to me, plus I know the degassing was done properly so I'm sure of it. I can't speak to can batches as I've found them to be quite variable.

As for my homebrew attempt, similar to yours. Liked my flavor combination, but lacked the hop intensity. I chalk it up to not being John Kimmich and to not having a hop back. I really think hop backing is used to make HT and I've just recently purchased a Blichmann Hop Rocket which will be used on my second attempt of cloning Heady Topper!

dankbeer said:

I've had heady topper a few times over the past year. Courtesy of a few friends who like to trade beer (NC here, so no normal distribution). The first time I tried HT I was blown away with the hop flavor and aroma combined with what tastes like a low IBU (for a IIPA). But, by the 3rd time trying it, what really stood out was the overall sweetness of the beer. koopa (page 4) mentioned some VT locals degassed a can and took a gravity reading of 1.010. This surprised me because it tasted more like 1.014 +

I have brewed a few clones (shot in the darks) of this with .33 oz of CTZ / Centennial / Citra (1 oz total for each addition) added 30 minutes, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 2, and flame out. The point was to try and reach HT's high flavor and aroma while keeping the IBUs low (due to my comment above). And dry hop'd with 1/2 oz citra, 1/2 oz centennial, and 1/2 oz CTZ.

My "clones" always came out with more IBUs than the original and the sweetness seemed to be low. The flavor and aroma were good in their own right. But, not a match. There must be something in VT's water that brings out that great flavor. : /

Click to expand...

I am right now trying Heady for the first time, and I don't understand how good this is. I think they literally are Alchemists. This might be my new favorite beer. It's at least my favorite IPA.

I also don't understand how different it is from other IPAs. The hops taste so much fuller and richer... I think there must be some added sweetness to it, enough to make the hops pop but not enough to actually taste sweet. It tastes like "hops" are a fruit that you can just squeeze juice out of into a glass. Incredible.

I also got a bit of Citra in the nose, but the taste was very different. I wouldn't be surprised if they added some Citra dry-hops since the hop was released. It also seems like there'd be some Apollo; Heady has a very "orange-y" character to me.

hickdog said:

I am guessing you mean Vic's Boathouse in the Victoria Station Restaurant?

Click to expand...

Vic's Boathouse is right next to Victoria Station on Pickering Wharf. Practically the same place. I think they are just trying to "class" up the place by calling one side "boathouse".

koopa said:

As for my homebrew attempt, similar to yours. Liked my flavor combination, but lacked the hop intensity. I chalk it up to not being John Kimmich and to not having a hop back. I really think hop backing is used to make HT and I've just recently purchased a Blichmann Hop Rocket which will be used on my second attempt of cloning Heady Topper!

Click to expand...

I had Heady out of the can each time. That might explain some of the differences in sweetness that I noticed. Anyways, please post how the hop rocket affects the flavor and aroma of the beer. Since I'm subscribed to this thread and might be purchasing a hop rocket in the near future... depending on your results. Cheers!

I took a shot in the dark at a Heady clone this weekend. I read somewhere that it has an OG of 1.08, ABV of 7.9%, and about 120 IBU. I’ve concluded (but I guess the brew will be the real test) that the high IBU is from late additions and perhaps FWH’s. So I did a 15 gallon batch of the following:

Batch Size: 15 gallons
OG: 1.08
Efficiency: 75% (I ended up with 81% so obviously the OG was higher too)
IBU: 123

Grains:
2 Row Base
36ppg, 1.5°L 33 pounds
73.9%
Vienna
36ppg, 4°L 5.62 pounds
12.6%
Crystal 20L
35ppg, 20°L 3 pounds
6.7%
Honey
37ppg, 20°L 1.5 pounds
3.4%
CaraPils
33ppg, 1.5°L 1.5 pounds
3.4%

Hops:

Amarillo (1.5oz), Simcoe (.75oz), Columbus (.75oz), Centennial (.75oz) @FWH
Chinook (.75oz) @ 60 minutes (had to do it to get the IBU’s up)
Amarillo (3oz), Simcoe (3oz), Columbus (2.25oz), Centennial (2.25oz) @ 20 mins
Amarillo (1.5oz), Simcoe (1.5oz), Columbus (1.5oz), Centennial (1.5oz) @ 1 min

Wow...15g. Go big or go home I guess. No dryhop?

skeezerpleezer said:

Wow...15g. Go big or go home I guess. No dryhop?

Click to expand...

Agree. Gotta be some dry hops in there, yeah?

What's the distribution area for Heady Topper? Just out east?

I'm in Syracuse and we don't even have it. My buddy had to pick some up from the brewery. I think Mass might have it...

The cases that hit NYC two weeks ago were over-stock that a distributor managed to score. We probably won't see it here again for awhile.

skeezerpleezer said:

Wow...15g. Go big or go home I guess. No dryhop?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm dry hopping with a couple ounces of each of Amarillo and Simcoe. Though I am starting to think about throwing in some citra to the party.

RiffMagnum said:

What's the distribution area for Heady Topper? Just out east?

Click to expand...

From what I understand it is available "only" in Vermont. I guess a few overflow cases have showed up elsewhere in the northeast.

The alchemist website lists the only places their beer is available, all in the great state of VT.

Alas poor Pliny, I hardly new thee.

Cambone said:

From what I understand it is available "only" in Vermont. I guess a few overflow cases have showed up elsewhere in the northeast.

The alchemist website lists the only places their beer is available, all in the great state of VT.

Alas poor Pliny, I hardly new thee.

Click to expand...

There's probably people buying it from Vermont, and taking it elsewhere. The bar I tried it in is in Lancaster, pa. The bartender that does their ordering is a beer geek for sure. Check out their site:

pouronprince.com

Liebz15 said:

Sorry, I'm dry hopping with a couple ounces of each of Amarillo and Simcoe. Though I am starting to think about throwing in some citra to the party.

Click to expand...

Citra likes to party. Ask my zombie dust clone. I say go for it.

Had a buddy return from the brewery from the weekend and he brought me back a case! There's some really good info I saw here about others sorting out the same thing. Anyway, my buddy was able to chat up John's wife while he was there and brought back this info about making a great DIPA:
- they use CO2 hop extract
- when dry hopping, don't let it sit for two long, only a few days on the hops so it doesn't get a vegetal flavor
- no crystal is used at all

This seems to be in line with Vinny from RR's philosophy regarding crystal which he really dislikes. So, some extra data points for everyone.

For my personal take... For the hops, I definitely get Cascade on the nose. Very grapefruity. I don't pickup Simcoe as I don't really get a lot of pine out of it. I also get the fruitiness of Centennial, but I think there's also something else that is really pushing the fruitiness / tropical notes beyond what I know Centennial to deliver. Citra seems to fit the bill but I usually get cattyness from Citra which I don't get here and seeing as it was released in 2007 and HT came out in 2004, I'm not sure it would have been added; however given the need for brewers to do substitutions though due to availability this very well could be the case - I have no historical comparison. Also, I hear some strains of Citra are catty while others aren't so very well could be. For the base notes I would think Nugget or a Columbus.

skeezerpleezer said:

Citra likes to party. Ask my zombie dust clone. I say go for it.

Click to expand...

I yielded about 13 gallons so I'm thinking one 6.5 gallon carboy will be treated to multiple nights of simcoe and amarillo (those two get along so well) while the other will be partying with citra (such a lovely loner).

A zombie dust clone sounds very tasty (even at 6:15 am before work). Would love to check it out if you have it posted.

mmonacel said:

For my personal take... For the hops, I definitely get Cascade on the nose. Very grapefruity. I don't pickup Simcoe as I don't really get a lot of pine out of it.

Click to expand...

FWIW, I just made a 100% Simcoe APA. Dry-hopped with 2oz for 7 days, and it was one of the most punget citrusy/grapefruity beers I've ever made. Didn't get any pine at all. It made me think "super cascades".

I spoke with them a couple weeks ago. The farthest east in VT they go is Montpelier. Most of their beer goes to the Burlington area, Chittenden county. They do have plans to expand distribution channels.

bluemoose said:

I spoke with them a couple weeks ago. The farthest east in VT they go is Montpelier. Most of their beer goes to the Burlington area, Chittenden county. They do have plans to expand distribution channels.

Click to expand...

I could have sworn I saw cans at Positive Pie in Plainfield, but I guess that might be considered Montpelier.

It is crazy to me how they basically sell out every week. Every time I go to pick up some the brewery's parking lot is always filled. Usually with out of state plates.

From what I was told, and Capt Kirkles can certainly clarify this if he pops in here, there were leftover cases from their production run, and they wanted to test the NYC market, so a distributor here got all of them. My beer store alone got 6 cases, which is great because Staten Island is usually forgotten when it comes to, well, everything.