American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone

Im brewing this on Saturday and using dennys favorite, curious to see how its different.

I have never done a partial mash brew, and I want to this one for my first!! Do I just steep these grains here like I do with my "specialty grains":

1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %

Or do I need to mash them at the correct temp as if I was brewing all grain beer?

Yeah when you steep just toss them in at mash temp and try to hold it there, so yes, essentially a mini all grain brew.

Thanks, drawdy!

Just finished bottling. Tasted even better after dry hopping. I dry hopped 9 days in the primary.

Received my order for the leaf hops for this today.
Now the big decision, do I make this my first all grain brew? Or should I try something a bit less expensive ingredient wise to test the all grain waters?

skeezerpleezer said:

To keep a 5lb grain bill you could add 2.5lbs of 2-row and drop the extract to 4.5lbs.

If you can do 7.25 lbs of grain, use 4.75lbs of 2row and drop the extract to 3lbs.

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Is using the 7.25 lbs of grain and 3lbs DME only for a partial mash? Or could I do a standard extract + grains and just steep the 7.25lbs grain at ~155 for 60? And do a 60 min boil adding DME at 60? I have a 7gal brew pot and large enough grain bag to hold that much grain (possibly two bags). I'd like to take advantage of the citra my LHBS just got in.

BAJones said:

Is using the 7.25 lbs of grain and 3lbs DME only for a partial mash? Or could I do a standard extract + grains and just steep the 7.25lbs grain at ~155 for 60? And do a 60 min boil adding DME at 60? I have a 7gal brew pot and large enough grain bag to hold that much grain (possibly two bags). I'd like to take advantage of the citra my LHBS just got in.

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You need to be pretty dead on with your temps for a partial mash. The main difference with pm vs steeping grain is that with steeping you are getting color and flavor from the grains but hardly any sugar. With a pm as with an all grain you are actually converting starch to fermentable sugar so the right temp is important. I use a round igloo cooler as a mash tun to maintain my temperature. If you use your kettle just make sure you maintain your mash temp and you should be fine.

Thanks for the quick response ajohnson, I've just realized (after reading a great thread on partial mashing here) that all I really need is a bigger hop/grain bag to do this. my kettle has a lid on it, will that help keep the temperature at the right spot for long enough? How long do you typically let the grains sit in the pot when doing a partial mash? Or does it vary by recipe? If the temperature goes under is it recommended to add pre boiled water cooled to 170 or to turn on a bit of heat (I have a gas range)? In that thread OP suggests putting the grain bag in a separate pot around 160 for 10 minutes and then adding that "tea" to the other wort, at this point a standard "extract" boil takes place right?

BAJones said:

Thanks for the quick response ajohnson, I've just realized (after reading a great thread on partial mashing here) that all I really need is a bigger hop/grain bag to do this. my kettle has a lid on it, will that help keep the temperature at the right spot for long enough? How long do you typically let the grains sit in the pot when doing a partial mash? Or does it vary by recipe? If the temperature goes under is it recommended to add pre boiled water cooled to 170 or to turn on a bit of heat (I have a gas range)? In that thread OP suggests putting the grain bag in a separate pot around 160 for 10 minutes and then adding that "tea" to the other wort, at this point a standard "extract" boil takes place right?

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Not sure on the time but I would think 60 mins would be plenty for conversion. As for maintaining temp. I have seen people wrap a towel around their kettle to insulate it and help maintain temps. I would add as little water as possible during the mash as it might throw your efficiency off. If you add water add it a little at a time. Do not apply direct heat during the mash or you could scorch your grains and add flavors you don't want in there (or so I'm told) honestly I have only done one pm batch. I'm really just passing along tips I was told while researching the process.

I'm brewing this on Sunday as a partial mash, I've got a few questions for anyone who can help out. I'm going to use half citra and half amarillo, think that will be okay? (I didn't want to buy my LHBS out of citra). About the FWH; after I mash (shooting for 150 for 60 minutes) and pull out and drain the bag that's when I throw the first .75 oz of citra in and then bring that up to a boil with additional 2.5 sparge water? I can boil up to 7 gallons and would like to stay away from the 60 minute citra addition, if I do do a 5-6 gallon boil I can skip the 60 minute addition completely? I want to make sure I get this straight, so any suggestions for this brew process welcome: 5 gallon batch, 5-6 gallon boil, using s04 and a partial mash. Do I mash in about 2.5 gallons and sparge with 2.5 gallons? And then bring that to a boil (or should I have 3 gallons in mash and 3 in sparge)? Also the 3lb DME should that be added at 60? or would it turn out better if I added it at 15? AND (sorry) the citra I got has a 14.4%AA will that account for too much of a difference or should I do the hop additions per the recipe? Thanks a ton.

Yeah I would say for the mash step shoot for 1.25qts of water/lb of grain, stir occasionally and hit it with your burner gently to get it up if the temp drops. Sparge with a gallon or two, and get it up to your boil volume with enough to get to 6 or 6.5. It will depend on your boil off rate but with only a 7 gallon kettle and all those hops in this beer you will probably end up topping off the fermenter to get to 5 gallons no matter how much you start with in the pot since the hops and boil off will eat at least 1.5 gallons. Do the extract as late as possible. Last 5-10mins. Just enough to get it sanitized. I would recommend hop sacks and control your ferment temps in the low 60's to ensure a clean ferment. This beer is all about the post boil treatment. Good luck!

Thanks a ton for the info drawdy, I'll let everyone know how it goes.

What Drawdy said. You could also add some water as it boils off to try to keep the volume as high as needed. If doing this, it may be good to keep the water near boiling temp in another pot on the stove so you don't stall your boil by adding lower temp liquid.

I wouln't worry about the Citra AA, it will help make up for the lower AA Amarillo hops. If you need to bump your IBUs a bit you could add a little Warrior/Magnum/etc at 60. Each .25oz of 15AA Warrior will add around 10 IBUS.

Brewed this for a second time today with a friend who is just getting started.. hit all of the numbers, and it is already fermenting away.

Only change was that I put a small charge of magnum in at 60, and I had to use a combo of leaf and citra pellets due to availability.

It will be ready just in time for my buddy's Halloween party.

Thanks again Skeezer!

InityBrew said:

...Only change was that I put a small charge of magnum in at 60, and I had to use a combo of leaf and citra pellets due to availability....

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How much magnum did you use? I like the idea of a bit of bittering hops at the start of the boil, and I think it would work well. I plan to brew this next weekend.
Thanks!

.25oz of 15AA hops will add around 10 IBUs.

That's all I added. .25

I added a third of an oz warrior at 60 minutes when I did this, I think that will add just the right bitterness to it. First BIAB partial mash for me, went pretty well, hoping it turns out well.

After 1 week in the bottle. I like it and my wife really likes it. Tastes great! Thanks for sharing the recipe skeezer!

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here that beersmith reports the extract 5gal conversion recipe seems to be about 10 points lower on OG than the original AG. Thoughts on bumping the specialty grains up a tad and extra light DME up a pound or so?

Beersmith probably correct as we tried the extract version this weekend using the recipe on page 1 and got OG of 1.055. Will probably mean a final ABV of about 5.5% instead of 6.5% (shouldn't impact drinkability) but I concur another pound of dry extract is probably warranted to reach the all grain OG.

Beer smith is so frustrating to try and get all the setting right and all that crap, please just try iBrewmaster, it's mobile so you can just use your iPhone android or iPad and you are set. It just works so much faster and simpler as well as portable. The timers and batch view are a real plus as well as the northern brewer recipes all being loaded

I'll be brewing this up on Friday, really been looking forward to it!

For those who are looking for Citra hops, Labelpeelers.com is taking pre-orders for Citra (also Simcoe, Amarillo, Falconer's Flight and Centennial) in both leaf and pellet form for 1oz and 1lb bags at 10% off. Estimated shipping isn't until the end of October/beginning of November however.

I have a lb of Citra in my freezer right now and just ordered another pound off them along with a lb of Amarillo

http://labelpeelers.com/beer-making-hops-c-1_64.html

I don't think the extract version in beersmith accounts for getting any sugars out of the steeping grains. If you hold them at 150-155 or so until conversion, it is basically a mini-mash. Try changing beersmith from extract to PM.

I was thinking of brewing this but had some questions that I couldnt figure out from reading the post...

Here is the extract/PM conversion:

Batch Size: 5g
Boil Volume: 3g

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04)


I am doing this extract with steeping the grains.

1) What options do I have instead of Citra at 60 min. Would rather not use Citra here so would anything else work for bittering?

2) What does this mean? 0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops

3) Since I am not doing a partial mash, do I need to add more DME to raise the gravity, if so, can I use Honey instead?

Thanks.

We ran the steeped grains for 30 minutes as I've repeatedly read (been lectured) that any longer and tannins/off flavored may emerge. Also, I believe the release of sugars in a 155-165 degree steep is minimal, but at an hour there has to be some sugars mashing out. Might account for a loss of OG in my batch this weekend.

I re-ran the numbers as a 30 minute steep then extract in iBrewer and I got 1.062 with this recipe (it did get up higher if set to partial mash) and 1.070 with another pound of dry extract, which is too high. So it makes sense to stick to the original 6lb dry extract recipe and see if others get the correct OG, especially if the grains are steeped for a full hour.

Poster above - simcoe is a decent bittering hops that shouldn't get in the way of citra if you used simcoe for the 60 min and first wart hops (in the extract version the first wart hops are tossed in after the grain steep bag is removed and while you are getting the wort boiling to add the extract - so they are in the wart longer then 60 mins).

You could use anything for that 60 min addition; magnum, warrior, simcoe, etc.

If you can steep those specialty grains, you are basically mashing them. You just need to try to control the temp a little tighter (shoot for 150-155), and use 1.25-1.5qt of water per gallon. Also-Steeping grains too long won't release tannins. Too high of temp for too long will.

So, the way the recipe should be written is? (I am just a little confused, sorry... I changed the order of the first two hops.

Steep for an hour as close to 150-150 as possible in around 4 quarts of water if I am doing a 3 gallon boil.

1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %

Discard grains
Raise temperature to boiling
While getting the temperature up, add first wort hop.

0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU


6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %

1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU

1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04)

and both of the First wort hop and 60 min can be replaced with magnum or warrior with little difference in the overal taste/bitterness?
Also, should I add the DME when first boiling prior to the 60 minute hop addition or should I add it at 15 minutes like I have read.

Thanks!

Took a gravity reading on this last night (I did partial mash) after 10 days went from 1.072 to 1.019 using S04, sample tasted great, it has that wonderful citra aroma, and I haven't even dry hopped yet! I made a this recipe using half citra and half amarillo, and added .5oz warrior at 60.

I am also confused by the "first wort hop" in the recipe. On the all grain recipe the first addition of hops is with 15 minutes remaining correct? Then what does"0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU" mean? Thank you for clarification, I read through the thread but could not find an answer.

Fwh means throw them in the kettle while you collect wort from mlt

Thanks for the recipe Skeezer!

The results:

This is a fantastic recipe. Gets even better with a little age. Have never had the original but can't imagine it being any better than this. Such a unique taste. Thanks so much for the recipe.

wegz15 said:

Fwh means throw them in the kettle while you collect wort from mlt

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Thank you. I did some research on FWH after reading this and decided to use it in my brew. Got a batch in the primary right now!

Finally got around to brewing this up yesterday. I added the DME with the 10 and 5 minute hop additions. It smelled fantastic as I put it in the fermenter. I got an OG reading of 0.070 (That could be wildly inaccurate as I was in a hurry at that point. SWMBO called on her way home from work and her car had overheated so I was rushing to get this finished up so I could go deal with that). Other than that the brew went smoothly. Those citra hops smell fantastic. I picked up a sixer of Sierra Nevada Torpedo just to kind of get an idea of what this hop tastes like. It's damn tast can't wait for this to be done.

Ok, so 24 hours in and we have airlock activity. Took a big ol' whiff of the airlock and holy grapefruits batman! I'm hoping for some mango flavor or maybe something else tropical, I don't know but if the taste follows the nose then this is going to be one hell of a beer.

Hey Guys!

I'm so exited to get started on this one! This is my first post as well and my first home-brew and will be doing this wonderful beer with my Dad. I was quite fortunate to score a six-pack of ZD on eBay and the Beer is AWESOME!. I have a few left in the fridge to compare with our final results. So i was hoping you guys can give me some pointers.

I will doing the extract version batch as my first brew. Here is my concern.

I have a 10 gallon kettle so i can do a full 5gallon boil.

Beersmith tells me the following based on the formula:

Batch: 5 gal
Boil Volume: 5.70 gal

1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU
6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1 packet SafAle English Ale (S-04)

And will use a full 1 ounce of citra on the FWH instead of (0.75).

I removed the Extra Oz of Citra @ 60min since I'm doing a full 5g boil as stated on the recipe but wont that eliminate my bittering hop stage?.
Now I'm not sure why Beersmith says i will need 7.76 gallons of water for this recipe. What?? I'm assuming i should put 5.70 gallons on my kettle to begin grain steeping right?
And do i really need to dry hop for 10 days. Should it be 7 days be max?

Thanks Guys!

Every pointer can help us out a ton...

I don't use BeerSmith, so I can't say with certainty, but I'd guess it's adding additional water to account for hop loss/trub loss. With a hop bill this big, you're gonna leave a crap-ton of liquid behind going into the fermenter, and again going from the fermenter to your keg/bottling bucket.

I usually do a 6 gallon post boil on this to account for trub loss and the loss to the dry hop and end with about 5g into the keg. The 1oz FWH will be fine, it will be your bittering. If doing a full boil, you dont need the 60min addition (you leave the FWH in for the whole boil). 7 days is fine for dryhop. I have actually been doing 2 dryhop additions lately in IPAs, splitting them in half, then going about 3-5 days per addition.

For your boil volume, there is a settingin beersmith for boil off rate. If this is your first brew, you probably don't know it. Make sure you keep record of your pre-boil and post boil so you can add this for future reference. My boil off rate is around 1.5g/hr, so if I am shooting for 5.5g, I usually start with 7g or so. That is outdoors on a turkey fryer. If you are on the stove, it will be lower.