Advantages of a Yeast starter

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Yunus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
544
Reaction score
2
Location
Frederick, MD
Ok so after searching through many threads about yeast starters I see that the advantages are healthier yeast and more of it. This I assume allows for a much faster fermentation period. I made my first lager and using 1 vile of yeast it fermented out just fine even at 40F, I did pitch at 70 and it probably did start out at to high a temp for a lager but I don't taste any fruity off flavors. I guess what I am getting at is, would someone please sell me on the idea of getting a stir plate and using starters? Cause right now I want to but don't see the reason why I should since I have not had a problem with yeast failing to ferment. Will my beer taste better or have a better color or be clearer?

Thanks
 
you don't need a stir plate but you should always be using starters. underpitching is the #1 biggest mistake inexperienced homebrewers make. underpitching creates more esters which can make your beer taste off. it causes your beers to finish too high, especially in a lager. it allows any bacteria a chance to get a foothold in your wort. it can create undesirable alcohols that make your beer taste bad and give you a headache. the most important reason to pitch the correct amount of healthy yeast is because breweries and home brewers that make better beer than you do it. if you don't pitch the correct amount of healthy yeast you'll never make the best beer possible. sure, you'll make good beer. but it'll never be as good as it could be. take a look at this pitch rate calculator to get an idea of how much yeast you need to be pitching for a given beer. If you really read all the posts on yeast starters and you're still not convinced then i'm not sure anyone can.
 
You do not need a stir plate to make good starters. Just periodically go and shake them up. It's also a good idea to use aluminum foil over the top instead of an airlock. You want oxygen getting in a starter to help the yeast reproduce.

I usually make a 1 gallon starter that I crash chill and pitch the sediment. Last batch of beer I made a 2 gallon starter and the yeast cake was the size of something I'd get off the bottom of primary fermentation.
 
You don't need to assume it makes for a faster fermentation... it does. That period between pitching and initial fermentation is a prime opportunity for bad things to happen. Additionally, if you're brewing a higher-gravity brew like a tripel or something, you'll need a lot of yeast to chew through all those sugars. Starters are really easy to make and I don't think there is a downside. If nothing else, you can get your yeast washing technique down and turn your one yeast vial into a few mason jars ready to turn into their own starters at a later date...
 
You definitely don't need a stir plate. I am currently using a clear growler to make my starters. I keep it on top of the fridge covered with foil. I give it a good shake everytime I walk past. That said, I do plan to upgrade to a stirplat in the future. Try it one time and you wil be a convert.
 
I too used to question starters. At the time i had about 20 or so batches under my belt and i always used wyeast or Wl with beers all over the spectrum from low to high gravities, Never had an infection and all of them to me and people drinking them where good beers, So i figured it was just drummed up hype by people that over analyze everything. Then one day i caved in and bought a kit for starters and gave it a whirl. Now its been many a batch since that first beer i used a starter on but i do remember right away my beers went to another level in their taste, its hard to explain but instant difference was noticed.

I also do not use a stir plate and i do not think i ever will, I already have many a time completely over attenuated a beer with just using a starter and shaking the crap out of it, If i had a stir plate and was making even healthier yeast than i already am i figure that i would accomplish things like stouts finishing at 1.002, but that would not be to good.
 
also, if you ever decide to bank your yeasts you will need to revive them into a starter. Just another advantage.

Actually while reading one of the guides I thought about doing this. Big money savings. So while at the LHBS I asked if they sold viles for yeast banks, they did not but the store owner gave me 6 WL yeast empty viles. I love that store, I'm doing a project that will lower the amount that I buy from them and they still hook me up with free stuff.

Does the starter need to be in the dark like beer? I used 500ml of water and 1/2 cup of light DME. Then I put it in my fermentation freezer at 65F.
 
Greetings!

I also have a question about starters. I have been just rehydrating dry yeast with great results but I thought I might try the liquid next to compare. I've done a bit of research and I think I can get a starter going but I'm still a little confused about what exactly to pitch. Do I decant the liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry or just dump the entire 2 L starter?

I apoligize if I'm hijacking or if my noobie question makes anyone moan! :p

-Tripod
 
Greetings!

I also have a question about starters. I have been just rehydrating dry yeast with great results but I thought I might try the liquid next to compare. I've done a bit of research and I think I can get a starter going but I'm still a little confused about what exactly to pitch. Do I decant the liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry or just dump the entire 2 L starter?

I apoligize if I'm hijacking or if my noobie question makes anyone moan! :p

-Tripod

Not at all hijacking, its a good question. One that I have been reading about and found that people do both. I can't tell you which option is better though.
 
Tripod & Yunus,

Neither option is "better". Each is appropriate, given different criteria. For example, where an actively-fermenting starter of appropriate pitching size would be large enough to act as a significant diluent, you'd choose the slurry.

The wise brewer doesn't make arbitrary choices about ingredients or techniques. He uses his knowledge and experience to choose between options. I see too much of this "Which option is better?" discussion here on HBT. Learn the differences and know when and how to apply what.

Cheers!

Bob
 
Quick question -- assuming the pitching rate would be right, could one "fake" a starter by pitching two vials of yeast, then checking the results?

Liquid yeast is expensive, but so is convincing SWMBO that new equipment is needed...
 
Quick question -- assuming the pitching rate would be right, could one "fake" a starter by pitching two vials of yeast, then checking the results?

Liquid yeast is expensive, but so is convincing SWMBO that new equipment is needed...

Now that I'm getting into starters I see them as one of the best money savings options available. That is if you have 1 type of yeast you like to use often.
 
Gotcha. It's not even a money thing and more just an "expansion of the obsession" thing.

Assuming I make halfway decent beer -- bear with me :) -- I'm just wondering if I could do a familiar batch of, say, an amber or pale ale, double pitch the yeast, and come up with a noticeable difference that would obviate the need for a long discussion about wherewe'llputthatstuff, since it would so obviously be better.
 
Gotcha. It's not even a money thing and more just an "expansion of the obsession" thing.

Assuming I make halfway decent beer -- bear with me :) -- I'm just wondering if I could do a familiar batch of, say, an amber or pale ale, double pitch the yeast, and come up with a noticeable difference that would obviate the need for a long discussion about wherewe'llputthatstuff, since it would so obviously be better.

Do you mean pitching directly on the yeast cake? I can't speak from experience because I have never done that. But at a local club meeting I met a guy who said he would pitch on the same yeast cake 3 times before throwing it out. The beer of his that I tried tasted very good and he said it was the last or third beer brewed from that yeast cake.
 
Quick question -- assuming the pitching rate would be right, could one "fake" a starter by pitching two vials of yeast, then checking the results?

Liquid yeast is expensive, but so is convincing SWMBO that new equipment is needed...

New equipment? My starter kit consists of:
An empty growler (purchased full ;) )
tinfoil
sanitizer
yeast
DME

You don't need an elaborate set up for a starter. I don't know that I can taste a difference, but the fermentation does take off faster.
 
You can double up on tubes/smack-packs. The Mr Malty calculator will tell you how many vials vs. ounces of slurry vs. liters of starter for your particular beer.

I strongly advise against knocking out onto a yeast cake.

First, it's hopelessly medieval. The sergeant in me wants to scream, "Clean your ****ing equipment between uses, you lazy ****ing ****ers!"

Second, there's a reason why that fella won't go more than three generations doing that - such massive overpitching screws up the yeast through mutation. After three generations, his beer probably tastes off. In fact, I submit that it does taste off, at least if you were to compare it to an identical beer pitched with the proper amount of yeast. Overpitching is especially troublesome for ales, because overpitching reduces or eliminates ester production, depending on how overpitched it is.

Third, yes, it's easier and more simple than carefully harvesting only good yeast from the cake, storing it properly, and measuring the proper amount to pitch. But it's so easy to just remove the good yeast and seperate it from the trub - you don't even need to wash the yeast, if you know what you're doing - that I don't buy the "easy and simple" reasoning. In this instance "easy & simple" = "lazy bugger who can't be bothered to clean his gear or use quality brewing practices", as far as I'm concerned.

Simply put, it's cutting corners. If a brewer is willing to cut corners in yeast management - arguably the most important part of brewing - what other corners is he cutting? That's not sound practice. The beer and the practice suffers. That's why I don't recommend going down that road.

Cheers,

Bob
 
These links might help anyone with questions about making starters, decanting the liquid afterward, stir plate use and many other potential questions.

Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters
Proper Yeast Pitching Rates

Thank you for these links! :rockin:

That was more than helpful information. And you provided it without making me feel like you were annoyed by my quest for knowledge. Kudos!

I think the "Fourteen Essential Questions..." site gave me enough to work with so I can feel like I'm making an educated decision. Plus plenty to "grow on" so I can get better at brewing.

-Tripod
 
I made a 1.25 liter starter using a Wyeast labs American ale yeast. Today I shook it to stir it up a bit and it foamed up and out the top of my 2 liter erlenmeyer flask. Is this normal? The other starter I made (only .5 liters) didnt hardly foam at all when shaken.
 
Back
Top