Pumpkin Ale question

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Senorsauza03

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Question for the group. I am doing my first pumpkin ale and I've been following the recipes through many threads. After stopping at my lhbs, the clerk told me it was not even worth putting pumpkins in at all- no flavor profile. He said just add pumpkin spice at the end of the boil for flavoring. Is there a need or what are the flavor benefits from using pumpkins vs just the spices? Some of the recipes sound awesome, but can anyone tell me what is the best practice or opinion?

Jorge
 
IMO the pumpkin adds something, but not what you'd think. Pumpkin itself is rather bland; think of plain butternut squash before you add butter/salt/brown sugar or anything like that.

If you can brew all grain or partial mash, you'll get a couple gravity points by mashing the pumpkin. Other than that, you can expect to get a little bit of the pumpkin's "squashy" texture in the beer's mouthfeel, and maybe a very slight squash flavor. The spices certainly dominate.

I add pumpkin to mine, just so that I can call it a pumpkin ale. But I bet if I left it out, nobody would notice. It's really not much work (especially if you use canned pumpkin) and if you're already doing AG/PM it doesn't add much to the process, so you might as well use it.
 
Real pumpkin can add body and a roastiness if a Maillard Reaction is attained when cooking the pumpkin. The Pumpkin Ale will be more complex and to style if real pumpkin is used. I would only recommend brewing an All-Grain Pumpkin Ale. That way, you have better control over FG, body, and character mashing grains that will highlight the pumpkin.

The spices will dominate if you add too much, or if the ratio is off. Cinnamon should be about 3-4x than the amount of Nutmeg, which is a very dominant spice. Other options are Ginger, Allspice, Clove, Vanilla, and Green Cardamom.

zach, IMO unseasoned butternut squash has way more flavor than unseasoned pumpkin. Probably one of the reasons why Schlafly uses both for their Pumpkin Ale.
 
Real pumpkin can add body and a roastiness if a Maillard Reaction is attained when cooking the pumpkin. The Pumpkin Ale will be more complex and to style if real pumpkin is used. I would only recommend brewing an All-Grain Pumpkin Ale. That way, you have better control over FG, body, and character mashing grains that will highlight the pumpkin.

The spices will dominate if you add too much, or if the ratio is off. Cinnamon should be about 3-4x than the amount of Nutmeg, which is a very dominant spice. Other options are Ginger, Allspice, Clove, Vanilla, and Green Cardamom.

zach, IMO unseasoned butternut squash has way more flavor than unseasoned pumpkin. Probably one of the reasons why Schlafly uses both for their Pumpkin Ale.

Well put. The mouthfeel/body from the pumpkin is the most noticeable addition for me. And by "the spices dominate" I meant that the spices are usually what most people look for in a pumpkin ale, not the squashiness. So they generally tend to dominate over the actual pumpkin for most commercial pumpkin beers that I've tried. Though I have found a few where that's not the case. I'll second the use of a small amount of cardamom in your pumpkin spice blend, I've used it in mine but I don't think it's something that's normally found in commercial pumpkin spice blends.

You're probably right about pumpkin being more bland than the butternut, I just figured that would be a more accessible example. I've heard of a few other breweries that also use butternut in their pumpkin ales. :mug:
 
the spices are usually what most people look for in a pumpkin ale, not the squashiness.

Eh, but that's still kind of misleading.

When you transform the ingredient with spices, it becomes something new. You would not have the same result just using spices... or just using pumpkin for that matter. You need both for that something "missing" which you mentioned earlier.

I've always preferred beers brewed with real pumpkin added to "pumpkin spice" beers... and I can usually tell the difference. That does not mean that all beers brewed with real pumpkin are superior. Some breweries still find a way to mess it up somehow.
 
Eh, but that's still kind of misleading.

When you transform the ingredient with spices, it becomes something new. You would not have the same result just using spices... or just using pumpkin for that matter. You need both for that something "missing" which you mentioned earlier.

I've always preferred beers brewed with real pumpkin added to "pumpkin spice" beers... and I can usually tell the difference. That does not mean that all beers brewed with real pumpkin are superior. Some breweries still find a way to mess it up somehow.

Fair enough. I don't really disagree with you, and I don't mean to be misleading.

But I do think that most consumers think of pumpkin spice, not the pumpkin itself, when they think of "pumpkin" flavor. Look at all the pumpkin crap they sell this time of year: pumpkin coffee, pumpkin cider, pumpkin-scented candles, lotions, etc. There's no pumpkin in any of those things. I've made a sweet potato pie that everyone thought was pumpkin pie because it had the same spices and was the same color, even though if you gave them a bowl of mashed sweet potatoes and a bowl of mashed pumpkin they'd obviously know the difference.

Many of the mass-produced, commercially successful (Shipyard...) pumpkin ales don't use pumpkin, like you mentioned. I'm not saying that's what I prefer, and I'm certainly not suggesting that's what you or OP (or anyone else on the forum) prefers. I enjoy the slight starchy mouthfeel and "squashy" flavor as much as the next beer lover. But if you made a beer with pumpkin but no spicing and called it a pumpkin ale, a lot of people would be confused; on the other hand, if you made a beer with spicing but no pumpkin and called it a pumpkin ale, a lot of people wouldn't even notice.

Again, I'm a huge advocate of adding real pumpkin. But some people aren't. There are all kinds of opinions in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/pumpkin-ale-without-pumpkin-268463/
 
I recently brewed my first pumpkin ale and wanted something a little different than your typical batch. I bought about 3 lbs of canned pumpkin and about 1 lb of sweet potato, spread it out on a cookie sheet and baked at 350 for 45-60 mins with a glaze of maple sugar followed by a quick broil for just a touch more maple caramelization. I added the mixture to the mash. I used sweet potato because it has more starches per gram than pumpkin (which barely has any so you really aren't adding any gravity points to your beer) and also had spices in the boil. I just bottled this yesterday and there was a perfect amount of pumpkin aroma with some mild spices lingering in the background. I think you should definitely add it to your mash, you will be happy with the result.
 
Look at all the pumpkin crap they sell this time of year: pumpkin coffee, pumpkin cider, pumpkin-scented candles, lotions, etc. There's no pumpkin in any of those things.

True, but you can't really compare a pumpkin candle or artificial Dunkin' Donuts syrup to Pumpkin Pie or Pumpkin Beer.

I've made a sweet potato pie that everyone thought was pumpkin pie because it had the same spices and was the same color

A lot of people's palates suck.

I enjoy the slight starchy mouthfeel and "squashy" flavor as much as the next beer lover.

That's not what you get from pumpkin beer. If you got starchy, you failed. Squashy... eh... Not so much. The spices blended with pumpkin bring out the pumpkin flavor more... Just as salt does with bacon.

But if you made a beer with pumpkin but no spicing and called it a pumpkin ale, a lot of people would be confused; on the other hand, if you made a beer with spicing but no pumpkin and called it a pumpkin ale, a lot of people wouldn't even notice.

For optimal results, you wouldn't really do either. If you served salt without bacon, a lot of people would be confused; on the other hand, if you served bacon without salt, a lot of people would still realize it was bacon (and a lot of them would notice that something is missing).
 
for my imperial pumpkin ale, I spread 2 cans of pumpkin on a cookie sheet, baked for an hour, then put it in a strainer bag and steeped it with the heating strike water

it added a nice orange hue to an otherwise copper-colored wort, maybe got some sugars out of it, hopefully some mouthfeel. added some spices at flameout

still in primary now, but the sample I took when adding some simple sugars, additional yeast and some nutrient was heavy on the spice. hopefully that will mellow out after bottle conditioning until next Halloween
 
True, but you can't really compare a pumpkin candle or artificial Dunkin' Donuts syrup to Pumpkin Pie or Pumpkin Beer.



A lot of people's palates suck.



That's not what you get from pumpkin beer. If you got starchy, you failed. Squashy... eh... Not so much. The spices blended with pumpkin bring out the pumpkin flavor more... Just as salt does with bacon.



For optimal results, you wouldn't really do either. If you served salt without bacon, a lot of people would be confused; on the other hand, if you served bacon without salt, a lot of people would still realize it was bacon (and a lot of them would notice that something is missing).

Why are you continuing to argue with me, getting nastier with each reply, when I'm being friendly and I keep repeating that I'm not disagreeing with you? There's no need to get upset and try to make it personal by attacking my brewing process.

I know how to mash properly. Starchy is an adjective that can mean "starch-like" or "resembling starch." Like you, I believe that the most significant contribution that pumpkin adds is to the body/mouthfeel, and I would describe the body of a good pumpkin ale as thick and starchy. I'm not alone on this, in fact Beer Advocate describes the pumpkin style the same way.

Often released as a fall seasonal, Pumpkin Ales are quite varied. Some brewers opt to add hand-cut pumpkins and drop them in the mash, while others use puree or pumpkin flavoring. These beers also tend to be spiced with pumpkin pie spices, like: ground ginger, nutmeg, cloves, cinnamon, and allspice. Pumpkin Ales are typically mild, with little to no bitterness, a malty backbone, with some spice often taking the lead. Many will contain a starchy, slightly thick-ish, mouthfeel too. In our opinion, best versions use real pumpkin, while roasting the pumpkin can also add tremendous depth of character for even better results, though both methods are time-consuming and tend to drive brewmasters insane.

Many people out there believe that the pumpkin adds very little or even nothing to the beer, and that most of the character comes from the spicing. I'm not one of those people, but I was simply making the point that that large group of people exists. Like with anything else, there are a variety of opinions on this board.

There have been a ton of pumpkin threads like this on this forum, and many others have posted similar (peaceful) comments about the spicing. But this is the first time that I've seen someone been attacked for mentioning that those other opinions exist.

Here's a recent one:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/pumpkin-ale-kit-variation-439289/

Really, I mean no offense. It's all beer. :mug:
 
Why are you continuing to argue with me, getting nastier with each reply, when I'm being friendly and I keep repeating that I'm not disagreeing with you? There's no need to get upset and try to make it personal by attacking my brewing process.

Wow. Way to be on the defense. Sorry that you took it as a personal attack. I have no reason to argue with you, nor was I being nasty. We are conversating and speaking about good Pumpkin Ales in a very general sense. This is a public forum and I try to reply based on my personal knowledge and experience based on what I find works / what doesn't, why, how, etc.

Starchy is an adjective that can mean "starch-like" or "resembling starch."

Starch, however you describe it, is not something you want in your beer. Plain and simple. It's like wanting Water in your Gasoline. I've also never heard anyone describe a beer as starch-like, so that might be extremely misleading to new brewers. "Starchy" can describe the clarity of a beer... but Opaque would be a better word.

Like you, I believe that the most significant contribution that pumpkin adds is to the body/mouthfeel

I never said this was the most significant aspect. It is one of them though.

I would describe the body of a good pumpkin ale as thick and starchy.

Thick... It depends. Some can be light or medium bodied. Again, I wouldn't use the word starchy.

Many people out there believe that the pumpkin adds very little or even nothing to the beer, and that most of the character comes from the spicing.

Good for them. They probably don't brew, or brew subpar pumpkin beers.

But this is the first time that I've seen someone been attacked for mentioning that those other opinions exist.

No one is attacking you. You are just being super defensive.
 
Responding negatively and argumentatively to every single sentence that I post, going out of your way to loudly disagree with every irrelevant or minor statement that I make, telling me that "I failed" in my brewing because I used the word "starchy" when I did not mean "containing starch," and insulting all the brewers out there that disagree with your very strong opinion on pumpkin: all of these led me to conclude that you're being attacking and nasty. I'm sorry that I interpreted it that way, but it seemed pretty clear to me.

I agree that you have no reason to argue with me, so it puzzles me as to why you keep doing it. Sorry for derailing the thread!
 
going out of your way to loudly disagree

I didn't know that "tone" could be gauged on the internet. It's not like I was using tons of exclamation marks and emotes.

telling me that "I failed" in my brewing

I didn't say that "you" failed... I was using the term to describe anyone who brews starchy beer.

insulting all the brewers out there that disagree

Didn't do this either... "You" came to the conclusion that all other brewers out there do not feel that pumpkin adds anything. That was your generalization.
 
I came here for an argument!

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:p
 
Tis the season. Come September, all the first time cider people start posting. Then in October, the pumpkin ale posters start cranking it out. Lots of discussions about gunked up sparges and stuff. Now we are getting into the Christmas spiced, fruitcake ale posts.

It is a sign of the season. Not bad, just funny.
 
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