When to quit the kit?

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dkziemann

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Hey everyone,

Apologies if this has been addressed numerous times. I'm about to start my second beer and am wondering, when am I ready to quit the kit? I'm a jazz musician, and I see a TON of similarities between brewing and music-- having patience, a personal style and "flavor," being able to improvise, and having an intuition in different unfamiliar situations.

With that being said, I totally understand that brewing is an artform which requires a lot of time to develop a thorough knowledge of. I'm expecting this to take at least 5-10 brews before I have a decent (limited) understanding of how beer brewing works. However, is it to my benefit to get away from the ingredient kits as soon as possible? Should I try recipes online and mix ingredients from scratch? Right now I'm just a college kid doing this in my apartment, so space is somewhat of an issue. I have the true brew K6 kit btw.

So, when to quit the ingredient kit? Would it be more beneficial for me to search out recipes and try to make it from scratch? Is the kit just going to be a crutch and hold me back in the long run? Thanks everyone!

Dan
 
Quit the kit now!!! I've never been into kits and think I'm a better brewer because of it. You have to accept the fact that your experimentation can sometimes produce crappy beer but that's just part of the learning process. Just read a lot about the different kinds of grain and experiment away. If you're still doing extract then pay special attention to which grains must be mashed and don't use those for steeping. Also, Designing Great Beers (Daniels) is a must have for making up recipes.
 
My first brew I used a kit. My second brew I used a kit but added/adjusted to create something different. My third brew I found a recipe on this site for a clone and made that. Now It's all free-style and I have to say that going at it on my own is SO much better. Sitting down and creating my own recipe is just as fun as the actual brewing.
 
You could easily start following "extract with steeping grains" recipes - they really aren't that different from kits. Do you have a LHBS you could go to? I always enjoy getting the ingredients myself (e.g. crushing the grain).

Before you begin completely "improvising" I would recommend getting your process down.

But hey you'll make beer regardless...
 
Lunchtime said:
My first brew I used a kit. My second brew I used a kit but added/adjusted to create something different. My third brew I found a recipe on this site for a clone and made that. Now It's all free-style and I have to say that going at it on my own is SO much better. Sitting down and creating my own recipe is just as fun as the actual brewing.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Making the recipe is almost the best part for me.
 
Brew what you want and like. Kit or no kit. You make the beer you drink. You decide. No advantage to either method. Personal preference.
 
JonK331 said:
I totally agree. Making the recipe is almost the best part for me.
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yeah, i have to jump on that bandwagon. creating a recipe is great fun, and it's so rewarding when the beer turns out excellent. i've made some good beer from recipe kits, and i still brew them. using known recipes can make some great beer too, but there's just something really enjoyable about crafting a recipe and having the beer turn out really well.

dkziemann said:
Hey everyone,

Apologies if this has been addressed numerous times. I'm about to start my second beer and am wondering, when am I ready to quit the kit? I'm a jazz musician, and I see a TON of similarities between brewing and music-- having patience, a personal style and "flavor," being able to improvise, and having an intuition in different unfamiliar situations.

With that being said, I totally understand that brewing is an artform which requires a lot of time to develop a thorough knowledge of. I'm expecting this to take at least 5-10 brews before I have a decent (limited) understanding of how beer brewing works. However, is it to my benefit to get away from the ingredient kits as soon as possible? Should I try recipes online and mix ingredients from scratch? Right now I'm just a college kid doing this in my apartment, so space is somewhat of an issue. I have the true brew K6 kit btw.
Click to expand...

hey Dan, welcome to the forum and the hobby. :mug: you're very right, brewing is an art form. much like cooking, creating a recipe is a great way to come up with something completely your own. even just doing your own take on a classic recipe will yield something unique to your brewery. i really enjoy brewing recipes of my own creation. there's a lot of great information on crafting your own beer, in books, magazines and here on HBT. a couple good books that've helped me learn how to make some pretty great beer are Designing Great Beers and Brewing Classic Styles. there's a bunch of great information out there, so do some searching, but those are two books i highly recommend.
 
Brew with a kit to prove to yourself you can in fact make beer.

Brew from a tried and true extract+specialty grains recipe to prove to yourself that there's nothing mysterious about kits, and to gain confidence in your process.

Once you're comfortable that your process works and have a familiarity with the impact of different specialty grains, start tweaking tried and true recipes to better suit your tastes.

Once you've got a good handle on the properties of different specialty grains, try your hand at creating your own recipes from the ground up.

The more you educate yourself, the faster you'll probably be comfortable getting to that fourth step. You may end up making a few sub-par beers, but learning from your mistakes is part of the process.

One philosophy that I embrace is that if your goal is to learn what impact a change has on your finished product, don't make lots of changes at once. In other words, if you're making significant changes to your process, it would serve you well to use a recipe with known results. If you're making significant changes to a recipe, use a process that you know works for you.

The more you learn, the more you can probably get away with changing.
 
dkziemann said:
So, when to quit the ingredient kit? Would it be more beneficial for me to search out recipes and try to make it from scratch? Is the kit just going to be a crutch and hold me back in the long run? Thanks everyone!

Dan
Click to expand...

1. Quit when you feel kits are not enough of a challenge and you know you could make better beer. I trained with 100 kits, and never had a contaminated or bad AG batch yet.

2. Use recipes till you know what the difference between Chocolate malt and Pale Chocolate malt is. Recipe's are great, some brewers out there already figured it out and wrote it down. The only time i change someones recipe is when i dont have the same kind of ingredients, or when they have taken crystal malt too far.

3. The kits will make you a better AG brewer than had you not done them first.
 
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll give one more kit a shot and then try making my own from scratch.
 
I've been brewing off/on for close to 15 years, and I still do the occasional AG kit. For me, there isn't a difference between pulling a recipe off of this forum, or out out Jamil's book, or buying the kit from a online shop.

I'm not going to kid myself and say that any recipe I create from scratch is going to be unique. Somebody has most likely brewing something similar at some point. Hell, I'm willing to bet that 80% of the "unique" IPA recipes are there have the same grain bill, just different hops added at the same time.

"You are a unique person, just like everyone else":)
 
I am also a musician (jazz for years, now not so much jazz) and I say quit the kit now. I went from Coopers (2 brews) to extract (5 of my own messed up recipes based on John Palmers) to all grain (60+) and found the transitions to be easy and all grain to be much more satisfying to brew. By a giant long shot.

In my HO there are big advantages to brewing your own recipes vs someone elses.

Good luck!
 
I suggest getting your process down, one brew in im sure there are somethings to work out in your brew day when the basics become second nature to you experiment all you want thats how I went about things and i feel that I have a better understanding of how experiments have affected the beer I have made but ultimately do what you want to do its you beer
 
I'm on my 5 th kit. Next one I will be no kit. I'm going to do a trippel been looking at recipes. I've been paying attention to what is in each kit so I think I have an idea of what to do.
 
broadbill said:
For me, there isn't a difference between pulling a recipe off of this forum, or out out Jamil's book, or buying the kit from a online shop.


[\QUOTE]

Definitely agree. If its a quality kit I see nothing wrong with using it. At the very least you can tweak certain aspects of it and in time learn a lot about what you like and don't like.

That being said, our favorite recipes have been ones that we built ourselves.
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I started out all grain after about a month of research. Got my first 2 brews fermenting right now planning the third for this weekend. If I read the hydrometer right and Beersmith is correct 82% efficiency first try 7.5%abv yum.

You can do it if I can... trust me.
 
I say use your gut. When you feel that you are ready or you really want to make your own recipes you'll know it and then go for it.
 
I built my system one piece at a time and before long I HAD to quit the kit because I had all of these new toys! Ha! Enjoy and have fun!
 
A kit is a good way to start and go through the process. Most have pretty good directions until the ferment times.

I did a kit for my first brew. The second I did a recipe from the recipe database. The third was a recipe that I made up. I think the best part is creating recipes. It is great when a recipe that you put together comes out good.

If you read a lot of recipes you will get a very good idea for what works.

Brew more.
 
You never have to quit kits and go your own way. My son has been brewing with extract kits for 10 years and may never quit them. For him it's a relaxing way to get the kind of beer he wants.

I brewed extract kits for a couple years because I thought all grain was too difficult or too expensive for me to want to get involved with. Then I found out about BIAB and learned that making from somebody's recipe wasn't nearly as expensive or difficult as I had imagined. It would be really hard for me to go back to an extract kit now. It's really your decision to make. If you have read enough to understand what each method brings and feel the need to expand your horizons this might be the time for you. If you just want the relaxation of the kit and the beers that you can make that way, why change?
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with a kit, and honestly, what is the difference between a kit, and if you were to order some extract or grains for a recipe? A kit is just a recipe made by someone else, there is nothing amazing about it.

I used kits for a while but for me anyway, I decided to move on when I found specific styles that I really enjoyed. From there I looked up recipes online, and started piecing together "kits" based on those alternative recipes. For example, I enjoy making cream ale as its a beer that a lot of my commercial beer drinking friends and family seem to really like when I have it on tap. I followed kits for a while, but I wanted something more. I started looking up recipes and found on on this forum called Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale). So, I skipped the cream ale kits online and went to this recipe instead. Its an amazing recipe, but I felt it was still missing something...so I added a little honey malt to the grain bill, and let's just say I had 3 family members drain almost 5 gallons of it while they watched the super bowl.

You will know. When you kind that kit you really enjoy but think if you just added this, or tried that...then its time to move on.
 
Lunchtime said:
My first brew I used a kit. My second brew I used a kit but added/adjusted to create something different. My third brew I found a recipe on this site for a clone and made that. Now It's all free-style and I have to say that going at it on my own is SO much better. Sitting down and creating my own recipe is just as fun as the actual brewing.
Click to expand...

not to thread hijack, but how long was it before you felt comfortable making your own recipe? More specifically, I am not sure I know the taste differences of all the malts and hops yet, so a recipe would be a shot in the dark for me. So, how long was it before you were thinking in terms of ingredients and how they would impact your finished product due to your knowledge of the ingredient profile?

I have done 2 brewer's best kits with specialty grains and just brewed my first partial mash (3 lbs of DME & 6 lbs of grains) last night. Right now I am just following recipes that I think sound good. But I would love to get to the point where I can decide which grains would combine together to make a unique profile.
 
Probably about a year before I made my first recipe. It wasn't all out of my head either. I used this site for a lot of research and BeerSmith really helps balance things out for me.
 
Kits are really convenient and make for a very relaxing brew day. You should definitely try your hand at making a recipe on your own - it's very easy once you get the hang of it, and you'll basically be able to try whatever you want. But you'll never really completely give up on kits because you'll get them as gifts or you'll just feel lazy and want to brew something up real quick - either way, if it's quaffable stuff, who really cares who mashed it?
 
My first two batches were kits and while I enjoyed them they left me unsatisfied, kind of like when I use a cake mix rather than baking a cake from scratch. For my third batch I developed a simple partial mash that I hoped would help me eventually ease into all-grain and, if my tasting of the OG sample last night is any indication I have a hit (but then, that could be the "I made this!" that it was heavily seasoned with).

I agree with a lot of what has been said above so I don't think much of these tips are all too surprising:

  1. Fundamentals. Make sure that you grok the principles of timing and mixing. As you are a Jazz musician you know that you need to be able to play an instrument before you can play Jazz.
  2. Confidence. Don't show fear. Your grains and hops will sense any lack of confidence and screw things up for you regardless of how simple the recipe or even if the recipe was developed by a master brewer.
  3. Simplicity. I was inspired by the SMaSH style and kept my first partial mash recipe as simple as I could (some DME, a base malt, a little crystal and one type of hops); this gives me an easy way to experiment with later flavors (what happens with a different hop? different crystal?) and teaches me what I like in a beer and why I like it.
  4. Calculation. Invest in a recipe calculator like BeerSmith or the Hopville calculator. This takes a lot of guesswork and makes brewday more relaxing. Later on you can spend time hand-checking the calculations on your own :)

Good luck on whatever you choose to do!
 
For extract brewing, is there really an difference between the kit and recipe other than adding your own hops for the recipe?
 
I've been brewing mini-mashes for 6 months (~75 gallons) and I've brewed some awesome beers. I'm finally moving to all-grain beers but to be honest, I'll probably still brew some select commercial-clone mini-mashes because of the quality vs time to brew. I can do a mini-mash in a little over two hours, and I can easily do 2-3 in an afternoon without blowing my whole day -- and still have good beer!
 
I did one kit. With all the recipes available, just use the ones you think you will like, print out the ingredient list and go to the LHBS. If you are ordering online, just match them up to what is on the list and go with it. The kits dont really provide you with any additional guidance other than a box of premeasured ingredients. Measure them yourself, and role with it. I have found in my short time brewing that overall it is very forgiving, and if you screw something up beyond repair it isnt a huge loss. Heck, you might even find some a couple friends who are used to drinking commercial swill that would be happy to drink your rejects.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I'm gonna try one more kit and then try from scratch... we'll see how it goes!
 

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