Organic Grain Suppliers ?

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Oakwoodforge

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Any body have a link for a good organic malt ( grain ) Supplier that doesn't gouge for shipping ?

Norther Brewer has a really limited selection, and Seven Bridges Charges 50% of the merchandise total for shipping :drunk: WTF ?

Jens
 
Jens,

You should understand what you're talking about before you sound off about "gouging".

Speaking as a person whose small business ships everything - we sell on the internet - there is nothing out of line with Seven Bridges' shipping policy except your expectations. Shipping has gone through the roof. Been to a gas station lately? There's only so much you can absorb into your pricing structure before you start losing so much money that you either A., increase prices, or B., fold.

Did you even read their shipping policy? Here's the story. I'll excerpt the important bit here:

Shipping cost is based on weight and we charge what UPS or Fedex charges us to ship your package.
Click to expand...

Homebrew supplies are heavy and bulky. That costs money. Don't believe me? Take a fifteen-pound box to your local UPS store, get a quote for shipping the distance between you and 7 Bridges, and watch the guy's face when you tell him he's gouging you.

The days of cheap or free shipping are over. Don't like it? Tough. It ain't changing.

:mad:

Bob
 
Yeah Bob,
Everything is going up but the wages , I know, it sucks. I don't want to get political or piss off anyone, just looking for organic malted grain.

My business ships between 50 -60 packages of heavy old truck parts every day with UPS, so I know full and well what fuel surcharges and such have gone up to, its pretty sick really. However my company would charge $16 to ship the same size and weight package as the other place wants $37 according to the online calculator...

Possibly I should have just asked for a Supplier in the Midwest with a good selection of Organic malt, eh ?

Prost !

Jens
 
I sincerely apologize for the vitriol, Jens. I should have re-read that post before hitting send. The word "gouge" just really gets me all wound up. I hear it daily from people, especially overseas.

It's weird how the calculators work. The difference between FedEx Ground and FedEx Home Delivery is sometimes bewildering.

But when you boil it all down, people are unreasonable to expect free or low-cost shipping. Trouble is, we're all used to it from years of competitive shipping prices amongst retailers. The larger you are, the more you can afford to absorb shipping costs. Even some homebrewing suppliers can do that to a certain extent. But it's so tough as to be impossible to do that when you're smaller.

I'm glad you understand, and please accept my apology. I'll try to lay off the caffeine. ;)

Bob

Edit: I love brewing with organics (as my sig indicates). Unfortunately, I don't know of any full-line organics supplier other than Seven Bridges. You could probably convince your LHBS to order stuff for you; Briess make enough different malts, and I think the hops come through LD Carlson. But you'll pay a premium for that, too. Maybe you can convince some of your local club members to join you in a bulk order...?
 
Wow their grain prices seem very reasonable, but shipping was $22 for enough grain to make a 5 gallon batch, that's a bit steep.
Click to expand...

Did you read this whole thread? If not, please see my manifesto, labeled Post #4.

Summary: It's not steep. Your expectations are off. Shipping is an expensive *****.

Cheers,

Bob
 
BobNQ3X said:
Did you read this whole thread? If not, please see my manifesto, labeled Post #4.

Summary: It's not steep. Your expectations are off. Shipping is an expensive *****.

Cheers,

Bob
Click to expand...

No, my expectations are not off, $22 for a 13lb box is excessive, and anyone would be nuts to pay it.
 
wildwest450 said:
No, my expectations are not off, $22 for a 13lb box is excessive, and anyone would be nuts to pay it.
Click to expand...

Bzzt! Wrong again!

Here are the three most similar delivery options, 13 lbs from ZIP 95060 (Santa Cruz, CA) to ZIP 38583 (Sparta, TN):

UPS Ground = $23.34
USPS Priority Mail = $31.30
FedEx Home Delivery = $21.42

Any fool - except one whose expectations are faulty - can plainly see that there is nothing "excessive" about their shipping. Use the internet to look it up for yourself if you don't believe my version of reality.

Who's nuts?

Bob
 
BobNQ3X said:
Bzzt! Wrong again!

Here are the three most similar delivery options, 13 lbs from ZIP 95060 (Santa Cruz, CA) to ZIP 38583 (Sparta, TN):

UPS Ground = $23.34
USPS Priority Mail = $31.30
FedEx Home Delivery = $21.42

Any fool - except one whose expectations are faulty - can plainly see that there is nothing "excessive" about their shipping. Use the internet to look it up for yourself if you don't believe my version of reality.

Who's nuts?

Bob
Click to expand...

You can throw number's around all you want, but here's a number that matter's, I just got a package delivered with 14lbs. of grain delivered to my doorstep in 2 day's for $6.99. So go ahead and pay exorbitant shipping prices if you want , that's your choice. I realize shipping prices have skyrocketed, that doesn't mean you can't find good deals.;)
 
wildwest450 said:
You can throw number's around all you want, but here's a number that matter's, I just got a package delivered with 14lbs. of grain delivered to my doorstep in 2 day's for $6.99. So go ahead and pay exorbitant shipping prices if you want , that's your choice. I realize shipping prices have skyrocketed, that doesn't mean you can't find good deals.;)
Click to expand...

Really? You got 100% organic grain delivered for that price? From which store? Sure wasn't the only store where the brewer has a halfway-decent selection of organic ingredients, 'cause there's only one of those and their shipping charges are real. Your example is pointless.

It's not "throwing number's [sic] around"; it's simple truth. You're refusing to believe objective fact: Shipping that weight from them to you costs them that much money. Period. Dot. End of story.

Here's something you're failing to consider. Any person or company who will take that big of a hit on the shipping is making the margin somewhere else. No matter how you cut it, you are still paying for the shipping. No sane business owner gives "deals" like that without making it up in accounting somewhere. At least Seven Bridges is honest about it. Your supplier has done an excellent job of hiding his actual costs and fooling you into thinking you're getting a good deal.

Let me state it a different way: Just because he charges you $6.99 doesn't mean it costs him $6.99. It costs him, to use my earlier example, $23.34. Which means that he has to find $16.35 somewhere in his books. Where do you think he's going to find that money? By raising the prices of everything else he sells. Which means you pay it, one way or the other.

If you knew these facts, you wouldn't have said what you said. Maybe I should have left you alone; after all, ignorance is bliss. But you should know how retail works, my friend, for your own sake.

Cheers,

Bob

EDIT:I'd rather have a retailer give me a real number than hide it. It's dealing with honesty and integrity, and that means mountains in my business dealings. If it's all about the money with you - and it appears that's so - dude, just have fun. You're the reason why small-town mom-and-pop stores are dying all over America and Wal*Mart is thriving. And while that's sad, I can't stop you. So just have fun.
 
BobNQ3X said:
Really? You got 100% organic grain delivered for that price? From which store? Sure wasn't the only store where the brewer has a halfway-decent selection of organic ingredients, 'cause there's only one of those and their shipping charges are real. Your example is pointless.

It's not "throwing number's [sic] around"; it's simple truth. You're refusing to believe objective fact: Shipping that weight from them to you costs them that much money. Period. Dot. End of story.

Here's something you're failing to consider. Any person or company who will take that big of a hit on the shipping is making the margin somewhere else. No matter how you cut it, you are still paying for the shipping. No sane business owner gives "deals" like that without making it up in accounting somewhere. At least Seven Bridges is honest about it. Your supplier has done an excellent job of hiding his actual costs and fooling you into thinking you're getting a good deal.

Let me state it a different way: Just because he charges you $6.99 doesn't mean it costs him $6.99. It costs him, to use my earlier example, $23.34. Which means that he has to find $16.35 somewhere in his books. Where do you think he's going to find that money? By raising the prices of everything else he sells. Which means you pay it, one way or the other.

If you knew these facts, you wouldn't have said what you said. Maybe I should have left you alone; after all, ignorance is bliss. But you should know how retail works, my friend, for your own sake.

Cheers,

Bob

EDIT:I'd rather have a retailer give me a real number than hide it. It's dealing with honesty and integrity, and that means mountains in my business dealings. If it's all about the money with you - and it appears that's so - dude, just have fun. You're the reason why small-town mom-and-pop stores are dying all over America and Wal*Mart is thriving. And while that's sad, I can't stop you. So just have fun.
Click to expand...


No they weren't organic grains, does it cost more to ship a pound of organic grains over a pound of regular grains, or a pound of sand for that matter? How do you know that I shop at Wal-mart or don't support mom and pop shops? I have spent plenty of money at my lhbs/health food store. But am I going throw money out the window if it's not necessary? Hell no. Yes Bob, ignorance is bliss.
 
Here is the true scoop. I side with both of you in that you are both right to an extent. A huge company will have a different shipping price based on volume of packages shipped. A small company doesnt do as much business so they arent getting the discounted rates. Sort of like if we buy one pound of two row it is 2 dollars but if you buy 50lbs its discounted. A bigger company (not 7 bridges) would pay less. Seven bridges is also marketing themselves as something different i.e. not the same old brew shop. They pride themselves on being mostly organic. Of course their costs even shipping are going to be lower because there is no way they are selling the same amount of merchandise.

Lets play nice so we can continue to debate or this thread will be locked by the thread lock gods. Why dont we talk about koala bears. that always makes me happy.
 
tdavisii - Koala bears humping. That's just funny. :D

But I need to inform you of something: There ain't a homebrew supplier on the planet moves enough through FedEx or UPS to discount the rate from $23.34 to $6.99. I have accounts with both, and have the breakdown sheets. It just doesn't happen, not with NB, not B3, not nobody, not nohow. You need multiple tractor-trailers pulling up to your dock every day to get that kind of rate.

There are times when it is appropriate to not play nicely. I do not gladly suffer idiots. People who will not listen to reason and truth and personal experience are childish idiots. Might as well stand there with their fingers in their ears shouting, "LA LA LA LA LA!". Let 'em lock the thread if they feel the need.

wildwest450 - How many facts is it going to take? I give up. Get down with your bad self and have fun in Happyland. [shrug] It's like talking to the friggin' cat...

Bob
 
I spend most of my day trying to teach my 3 year old how to get along with others, soooo.... I generally stay away from these posts.

But I'm getting really interested in organic brewing and had to look. Went to seven bridges site, liked it, and then saw this that might be helpful:

Special Notice: On October 1, 2007, Flat rate shipping ended.

For many reasons, the time came for us to end the flat rate shipping program we have offered for many years. Shipping costs rose so much in recent years that we were forced to inflate our prices to cover the extra shipping, making our prices seem outrageous to some customers, and certainly unfair to customers who live geographically closer to us. From an environmental standpoint, the flat rate shipping discouraged our customers from seeking more local sources of heavy items as the flat rate actually was an incentive to ship as much weight clear across the country as possible. Also our web store never automatically applied the correct flat rate shipping (a feature that is not an option without switching e-commerce providers) forcing us to make it an honor based system which has been confusing for many of our customers. The new shipping system in our online store will be much simpler: the shopping cart will correctly charge the actual shipping rate based on the destination zip code, shipping method, and weight of items ordered.

With your continued support and choice to brew organic, we are confident that in the future more organic ingredients will be available at lower prices all across the US and beyond. Thank you for supporting sustainable agriculture and choosing organic!!
 
Does beer made from organically-grown grain taste differently from beer made from conventionally-grown grain? I eat mostly organically-grown fruits and vegetables, and I find they taste better than the conventional stuff most of the time. But we don't eat the grain we brew with, so maybe it's not the same thing.
 
It's been my experience that organic hops have a fresher, "greener" flavor and aroma in the finished beer. I haven't noticed any difference in finished beer from the malt, but tasting the malt before brewing side-by-side, I found the organic malt noticeably more full and, well, tasty.

I simply must do another SMaSH with non-organic ingredients, so I can organize a blind tasting. When I get round to that, I'll post the results. But don't hold your breath! ;)

Cheers,

Bob
 
:mug:

OK so the Question still remains: Any Body Know of a Home brew supplier East of the Rocky Mountains that has a good selection of organic grain ?

Prost !

Jens
 
BobNQ3X said:
Really? You got 100% organic grain delivered for that price? From which store? Sure wasn't the only store where the brewer has a halfway-decent selection of organic ingredients, 'cause there's only one of those and their shipping charges are real. Your example is pointless.

It's not "throwing number's [sic] around"; it's simple truth. You're refusing to believe objective fact: Shipping that weight from them to you costs them that much money. Period. Dot. End of story.

Here's something you're failing to consider. Any person or company who will take that big of a hit on the shipping is making the margin somewhere else. No matter how you cut it, you are still paying for the shipping. No sane business owner gives "deals" like that without making it up in accounting somewhere. At least Seven Bridges is honest about it. Your supplier has done an excellent job of hiding his actual costs and fooling you into thinking you're getting a good deal.

Let me state it a different way: Just because he charges you $6.99 doesn't mean it costs him $6.99. It costs him, to use my earlier example, $23.34. Which means that he has to find $16.35 somewhere in his books. Where do you think he's going to find that money? By raising the prices of everything else he sells. Which means you pay it, one way or the other.

If you knew these facts, you wouldn't have said what you said. Maybe I should have left you alone; after all, ignorance is bliss. But you should know how retail works, my friend, for your own sake.

Cheers,

Bob

EDIT:I'd rather have a retailer give me a real number than hide it. It's dealing with honesty and integrity, and that means mountains in my business dealings. If it's all about the money with you - and it appears that's so - dude, just have fun. You're the reason why small-town mom-and-pop stores are dying all over America and Wal*Mart is thriving. And while that's sad, I can't stop you. So just have fun.
Click to expand...


i shipped a 14lb box from oregon to maryland for $12.16 through DHL about a week ago. almost double that does seem somewhat excessive to me to ship the same weight.
 
thooper41 said:
i shipped a 14lb box from oregon to maryland for $12.16 through DHL about a week ago. almost double that does seem somewhat excessive to me to ship the same weight.
Click to expand...

Well, I can only say two things to this: DHL must be doing something differently, because UPS, USPS and FedEx all are at least twice as expensive. And since the supplier in question - Seven Bridges Coop - doesn't use DHL, the point is moot. I suppose the OP (and the others who consider normal pricing excessive) could suggest/insist that 7BC ship with DHL.

It's worth a shot.

Bob
 
Oakwoodforge said:
:mug:

OK so the Question still remains: Any Body Know of a Home brew supplier East of the Rocky Mountains that has a good selection of organic grain ?

Prost !

Jens
Click to expand...

There is a new option now for purchasing organic brewing grains East of the Rockies:

http://www.weberorganic.com

Since a lot of discussion on this thread dealt with shipping costs, shipping prices do vary based on the distance shipped. We're located in Illinois, so shipping malt from our location to the Midwest should not only provide a lower shipping cost, but also arrive more quickly than orders coming from the West Coast.
 
I was just going to post a new topic about Organic grain suppliers, but found this topic already open...

Does anybody know of good organic grain suppliers in the Portland, OR area?

I have been to F.H. Steinbart in Portland, but they only have organic 2-row and 1 or 2 other grains. I would like to find somebody that has a lot better organic selection without having to go online and pay such a large amount for shipping.
 
jcweber1 said:
There is a new option now for purchasing organic brewing grains East of the Rockies:

Weber Organic Homebrew Supply

Since a lot of discussion on this thread dealt with shipping costs, shipping prices do vary based on the distance shipped. We're located in Illinois, so shipping malt from our location to the Midwest should not only provide a lower shipping cost, but also arrive more quickly than orders coming from the West Coast.
Click to expand...

Do you have a physical store or online only?
 
Just sent an email to them. If I could pick up there that would be awesome since I live in Chicago and my LHBS has organic 2 and 6 row but that's about it.
 
bbbblaine said:
I was just going to post a new topic about Organic grain suppliers, but found this topic already open...

Does anybody know of good organic grain suppliers in the Portland, OR area?

I have been to F.H. Steinbart in Portland, but they only have organic 2-row and 1 or 2 other grains. I would like to find somebody that has a lot better organic selection without having to go online and pay such a large amount for shipping.
Click to expand...

Brewbrothers ( https://www.brewbrothers.biz ) out in the Hillsboro area has a good selection of Organics. They have a delivery route to Jantzen Beach on Wednesday's it looks like, which may work for you too.

To others on this thread, you might check out their shipping prices, I see a lot of grains being shipped out whenever I stop in.
 
Just got an email back here it is:
Yes, you could definitely pick up an order in person. *When you place your order through our website, just select the in store pickup option for your shipping selection. *The pickup location would be 1433 Auburn Ave. Naperville, 60565.

If you are purchasing heavier ingredients, such as malt for a few batches, you will definitely save on shipping costs.

Thanks,
Joel Weber
Click to expand...
 

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