HLT as RIMS?

This must have been discussed somewhere before but I can't seem to find it.

Is it possible to use an HLT for direct heating a recirculating mash? I use a heatstick and gas, so could pump my mash wort into the HLT to heat it with either before returning to the HLT.

I see two possible disadvantages:

1. You couldn't heat sparge water at the same time (not a major concern for me because I can heat that water quickly with the heatstick/gas combo).
2. This would be less efficient than a RIMS tube because of the greater distance traveled and larger quantity of wort required to make it work. This issue seems like it may be prohibitive, as if you are moving that much wort it might be prone to cooling on the way to the fire source which could affect temps and take too much liquid off the grain, offsetting the benefit of recirc. Then again, the quantity would not be much greater than for HERMS I'd think.

Thoughts?

If you have pumping ability, why not just recirculate in the mash tun? A RIMS tube, or another vessel for that matter, is not necessary. That lets you use your HLT as an HLT.

I should have specified: my mash tun is not heated. I could put the heatstick right in the mash, but the jury is still out for me on whether it might scorch the grain.

You'd put the heatstick in the HLT, and heat the mash, and return it to the mash tun? I'm sorry for the question, I just can't picture the setup you're proposing.

If you've got an HLT, and a pump, why not had a coil to the HLT and just set up a HERMS?

Ya, a heat stick would scorch. Can you move your mashtun to the gas source?

I have a HERMS system that recirculates the wort through a 50 ft coil mounted in the HLT. I put the temp sensor where the wort re-enters the mash tun. I have no flame or heat source on the mash tun, but can still keep my mash +/-.5 deg of the setpoint. The coil in the HLT is also great if you perform a mashout. Bring your hot liquor up to sparging temp at the same time you're mashing out!

I could set up a HERMS, however it seems like this could work just as well with a much simpler set-up: no need to modify my HLT or purchase/install a coil in the HLT. Also, because of my Denny-style batch sparge method I don't use enough sparge water to heat the entire length of coil with a 5 gallon batch, so I'd just be wasting energy heating excess water (I could use it for cleaning, but have plenty of that later).

After thinking about this for a couple days, I can't really see any reason why it wouldn't work as well as a HERMS and almost as efficiently as a RIMS on my set up. Will give it a whirl on the next brew and see how it goes!

So I finally brewed and gave this a shot. It worked much better than I envisioned!

Essentially, this creates a tubeless RIMS with no additional equipment. This is perfect for people who want to maintain (or raise) mash temps without direct firing their mash tun or adding a HERMS coil or RIMS tube.

My second concern above was unfounded as I could control the amount of wort flowing through the heat infusion, so I was actually more efficient than a HERMS system in terms of wort required in the system. I'd say I had a 1/2 gallon flowing through the system at any time.

The primary downside is not being able to heat sparge water at the same time, but that process is quick on my system so I did not lose any time there. On the flip side, I used a lot less energy than a HERMS system by not heating my sparge water for longer than needed.

One unknown at this point: is this as quick to raise mash temps as a HERMS or a RIMS? In a 4.5G mash, I was able to raise my mash temp about 4 degrees in 7-8 minutes. I actually could have been faster by increasing my HLT temp and increasing the volume driven through the system. Depending on the volume driven through alternative recirculating systems, this is probably on par.

Here's a photo of the inside of my HLT. You can see I got a bit of foam going initially but was able to control that pretty easily by adjusting the speed of my pump.

With my HERMs system no time is wasted or energy for that matter. I always start my brew day by filling my converted keg(HLT) with 8 gal, covering my coil and leaving room for more water. I also put the amount of strike water needed in my mash tun. I put the temp control on the HLT to 175 and start recirculating. Once mash water gets to 158ish, I dough in(I always error on the side of low temp because it's easy to heat up but hard to cool). I then recirc again to get to 151' add water to HLT to lower temp to 152, then continue to recirc for the entire mash. After an hr, raise temp on pid to 175, recirc to Mach out. Once 170 is achieved in mash, drain, add watwr to HLT to lower temp to 170, then sparge. HERMs system works like a champ

jfish1183 said:

With my HERMs system no time is wasted or energy for that matter. I always start my brew day by filling my converted keg(HLT) with 8 gal, covering my coil and leaving room for more water. I also put the amount of strike water needed in my mash tun. I put the temp control on the HLT to 175 and start recirculating. Once mash water gets to 158ish, I dough in(I always error on the side of low temp because it's easy to heat up but hard to cool). I then recirc again to get to 151' add water to HLT to lower temp to 152, then continue to recirc for the entire mash. After an hr, raise temp on pid to 175, recirc to Mach out. Once 170 is achieved in mash, drain, add watwr to HLT to lower temp to 170, then sparge. HERMs system works like a champ

Click to expand...

Sounds easy-peasy!

My assumption about energy usage is that you are heating liquid in your HLT for the entirety of your mash, even if just to maintain its temp. With a RIMS you spend some time heating the wort if trying to raise the mash temp, but otherwise the HLT burners are off until it's time to heat the sparge water. In a typical mash, your burner would run for about 1/4 the time. I'm also assuming that the energy required to heat 8 gallons once or 4 gallons (mash + sparge) twice is comparable.

rivertranced said:

Sounds easy-peasy!

My assumption about energy usage is that you are heating liquid in your HLT for the entirety of your mash, even if just to maintain its temp. With a RIMS you spend some time heating the wort if trying to raise the mash temp, but otherwise the HLT burners are off until it's time to heat the sparge water. In a typical mash, your burner would run for about 1/4 the time. I'm also assuming that the energy required to heat 8 gallons once or 4 gallons (mash + sparge) twice is comparable.

Click to expand...

Well, you don't have to heat the liquid in the HLT if it's holding temperature. I have electric elements, and it fires very little to maintain 156 (the temperature I need for a 152 degree mash).

Once the liquid is heated, it holds heat well.

And even better with some insulation and a lid on it.