Gordon Strong's New Book

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jfowler1

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I havn't seen a discussion about this yet, and since I just purchased it myself, I feel safe posting.

Gordon Strong, who was awarded the Ninkasi at the last three NHC's, just released his book. In addition to his unreal success at the NHC, he is also a Level V Grand Master BJCP judge - so I guess the guy's got some credentials to back up whatever is in his book.

$12 shipped (with Amazon Prime)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381985/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I will be receiving my copy Thursday, and look forward to digging into it. I read in an interview with Strong, and excuse me if I am misquoting, that he was approached to write a book focusing on advanced brewing (with a concentration on all-grain). If that turns out to be the case, I think we are in for a treat.

I have felt there was a hole in the homebrew book market. I own a lot of books, and have some thoughts. Charlie's CJOHB gets your mind in the right place and reminds you why you brew, Palmer's HTB is a great tuturial and reference for beginner to advanced, Daniel's DGB is an incredible database from which to formulate recipes, JZ/ Palmer's BCS extracts from DGB and removes the guesswork by building proven recipes for you, Mosher's RB offers an off-centered (sorry DFH) approach to creative brewing, the JZ/ White's Yeast tells you more than you ever wanted to know about fermentation and yeast management. But I think there was a need for a book dedicated to (appropriately) brewing better beer.

Personally, I am at a point where I understand the process, so I saw the need for a book that ignores the entry level instructions and dedicates some valuable page space to (again) brewing better beer.

Has anyone already bought/read it, and if so, do you care to offer any reviews? I'll follow up after the weekend and let you know my own thoughts.

Joe
 
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I am very much looking forward to reading it...just as soon as I can get my hands on a copy. I see that Amazon now has it in stock.

I have all the books you mentioned and (for the most part) I agree with your assessment of each of them. In my opinion, CJOHB is teetering on the edge of being irrelevant and these days I recommend that new brewers start with Palmer's book. But that could be because that's how I started.

In any event, I have a copy of White & Zainasheff's Yeast on the way. And I'm really looking forward to Gordon's book as well.

Brian
 
Reading Yeast as we speak. Only through chapter two so far and I have already learned so much. May not be information that I had to know but I'm glad I know it. May pick up this book as well as I would like to get a nice library of brewing books in my house.
 
. In my opinion, CJOHB is teetering on the edge of being irrelevant and these days I recommend that new brewers start with Palmer's book. But that could be because that's how I started.

I haven't dove into all-grain yet and I am still refining my extract/mini-mash techniques, I have to agree. I thuroughly read CJOHB front to back before actually brewing, and I have to say, I was still a little confused on what was important and not so important to make good beer. I think palmers book is more straight forward and informative.

I am thinking about picking up Yeast and Strongs book soon though...
 
I'm about halfway through the Strong book. So far I can say it's pretty good. The foreward was entertaining. I like his upfront no pu$$yfooting around writing style and his philosophies relating to how he views homebrewing.

Although I still have a lot to read, I'd say so far it was worth the 12 and change.
 
I got it through the aha pre sale and have had it for about a week. It is straight forward and ready to read. I've already used his thoughts on water in my last brew and am looking forward to getting through the whole book. He makes no bones about some of the things he has strong opinions in which is a little entertaining. It is a definate but.
 
Really enjoying the book so far, and will try to change some of my processes.
 
I've had it for a few days and so far I really like it. He explains his stance on homebrewing in general and what is going to be in the book and then goes for it. I have not finished it, due to having tons of stuff to do, but I think it's a great read and should be very helpful to a lot of people who are knowledgeable about AG brewing, or even someone who has read up on it, and knows they want to do it.

I won't do a complete review since I haven't read it through yet, but I would like to note that Gordon Strong feels that there is no reason to stick with extract past a few batches and explains why. The book is geared only for AG brewing and expects that you know something about it, or have at least brewed a couple of batches.

I got it on presale through AHA for less than $15 and it's been worth every penny so far, if for nothing more than for the insight Strong gives into his own (successful) brewing endeavours.
 
I seem to be in the boat with most here. Got Strong's book on presale, read a bit, like it so far, but haven't read enough to really review it. I also have all the other books (except CJOHB) the OP mentions, so I'll let ya know in a bit.
 
Just ordered my copy of it on Amazon. I am still reading DGB by Daniels. Finished the Yeast book a couple of weeks ago and I highly recommend it to everyone brewing, also Palmers HTB is a great book as well.
 
I am done reading through part II, and haven't come across a mention of BIAB yet that I can remember. Even if it is not covered in the remainder of the book (I don't know if it is or not), I think the information would nevertheless be useful. Mashing/sparging/lautering is only a small part of the brewing process, and several of his more unique tips in that section with respect to roasted and crystal malts would, I think, still apply to the BIAB brewer.
 
I am done reading through part II, and haven't come across a mention of BIAB yet that I can remember. Even if it is not covered in the remainder of the book (I don't know if it is or not), I think the information would nevertheless be useful. Mashing/sparging/lautering is only a small part of the brewing process, and several of his more unique tips in that section with respect to roasted and crystal malts would, I think, still apply to the BIAB brewer.

That is good to know. Thanks.
 
I've been thumbing through my copy at nights, it seems like a pretty nice compendium of rare and exotic techniques that you normally only find in the dark recesses of the internet. He is quite opinionated at you'll probably roll your eyes at him at least once (like when he says extract brewing isn't really brewing, like heating a microwave dinner). I guess when you win the ninkasi three times you are afforded certain eccentricities.
 
I've been thumbing through my copy at nights, it seems like a pretty nice compendium of rare and exotic techniques that you normally only find in the dark recesses of the internet. He is quite opinionated at you'll probably roll your eyes at him at least once (like when he says extract brewing isn't really brewing, like heating a microwave dinner). I guess when you win the ninkasi three times you are afforded certain eccentricities.

Yeah, that's fine. Homebrewers like John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff stick up for us extract brewers, so its all good. The most important part is that everyone is entitled to share an opinion!
 
I've been thumbing through my copy at nights, it seems like a pretty nice compendium of rare and exotic techniques that you normally only find in the dark recesses of the internet. He is quite opinionated at you'll probably roll your eyes at him at least once (like when he says extract brewing isn't really brewing, like heating a microwave dinner). I guess when you win the ninkasi three times you are afforded certain eccentricities.

Hoptech, my lhbs, enters their extract kits into local competitions all the time. They have won a few of them.
 
Yeah, that's fine. Homebrewers like John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff stick up for us extract brewers, so its all good. The most important part is that everyone is entitled to share an opinion!

Even when that opinion is demonstrably wrong? I don't think so. One can opine that the moon is made of Camembert, but that doesn't make your opinion worth anything more than scorn.

Frankly, I don't care how many danglies a person has won. If he's demonstrated such a lack of judgement in one opinion, every single one of his other opinions is suspect if not totally worthless.

It's sad that we give a jerk a pass because he's won an award. Would you forgive Mel Gibson's offensive remarks because he's won two Academy Awards and a whole bunch of others? I hope not! That's not "eccentricities"; that's being a d!ck. There's nothing to be forgiven or excused in either Gibson's or Strong's cases; we should be calling Strong out for being a d!ck instead of excusing his jagoff statements because he's famous and has won awards for good beer.

I don't want to give money to arrogant jerks, so I won't be buying this book. ;)

I include such remarks as MrBubbly's in the category of "jerk", too. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Bob
 
Even when that opinion is demonstrably wrong? I don't think so. One can opine that the moon is made of Camembert, but that doesn't make your opinion worth anything more than scorn.

Frankly, I don't care how many danglies a person has won. If he's demonstrated such a lack of judgement in one opinion, every single one of his other opinions is suspect if not totally worthless.

It's sad that we give a jerk a pass because he's won an award. Would you forgive Mel Gibson's offensive remarks because he's won two Academy Awards and a whole bunch of others? I hope not! That's not "eccentricities"; that's being a d!ck. There's nothing to be forgiven or excused in either Gibson's or Strong's cases; we should be calling Strong out for being a d!ck instead of excusing his jagoff statements because he's famous and has won awards for good beer.

I don't want to give money to arrogant jerks, so I won't be buying this book. ;)

I include such remarks as MrBubbly's in the category of "jerk", too. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Bob
Wow, all this hate and hostility just because he says "there is no reason to stick with extract past a few batches" and "extract brewing isn't really brewing, like heating a microwave dinner" and goes on to explain why?

Opinionated, yes. But a d!ck, arrogant jerk, jagoff statements? Based on your post it appears those words do apply...but not to Gordon.
 
I don't want to turn this into an extract vs all grain debate, but the book was specifically designed for andvanced homebrewing.

You have to be all grain for advanced homebrewing, the 2nd most important part of brewing is the mash. There are also countless of styles that can't be brewed with extract. With extract, you dont know even know for certain what the base grains were, or how they were originally mashed. You have limited control of the beer. I'm not saying you cant make great beer with extract (my extract hefe is going to the final round of the NHC), but you have limited control.

To be an advanced homebrewer you have to be all grain, and that's the perspective of Gordon, from listening to interviews of him. Maybe it's a bit insulting the way he talks about extract brewing, but the book is catered to all grain brewers. Keep in mind when he started brewing you couldnt even get munich extract malt.

I dont think it has anything to do with him winning the awards. He wouldnt share his techniques like this if he was that type of person. But from rather his own history of brewing. He was an extract brewer at some point too.

So until somebody can do a decoction with extract brewing, it's not advanced brewering, and that's the point of the book.

It's not like Jamil is brewing extracts for competition. He also sold a lot of books to extract brewers so he's going to be kind to them. Jamil is right that you can make great beer and I dont think Gordon would ever say you couldnt. Just that you have less control over the final product.
 
So anti-extractism is the new anti-semitism, eh? Yeah, I can see that. I hear the Westboro Baptists now hold up signs reading "God hates LME" at funerals.

Not that I agree with the him, but comparing Gordon Strong to Mel Gibson is a mite harsh, no? ;)
 
So anti-extractism is the new anti-semitism, eh? Yeah, I can see that. I hear the Westboro Baptists now hold up signs reading "God hates LME" at funerals.

Not that I agree with the him, but comparing Gordon Strong to Mel Gibson is a mite harsh, no? ;)

Well said. Sad that you even have to say something like that. Shame and common sense is just out the door these days.:eek: Were talking about a great book here. I like his style.
.
 
Even when that opinion is demonstrably wrong? I don't think so. One can opine that the moon is made of Camembert, but that doesn't make your opinion worth anything more than scorn.

Frankly, I don't care how many danglies a person has won. If he's demonstrated such a lack of judgement in one opinion, every single one of his other opinions is suspect if not totally worthless.

It's sad that we give a jerk a pass because he's won an award. Would you forgive Mel Gibson's offensive remarks because he's won two Academy Awards and a whole bunch of others? I hope not! That's not "eccentricities"; that's being a d!ck. There's nothing to be forgiven or excused in either Gibson's or Strong's cases; we should be calling Strong out for being a d!ck instead of excusing his jagoff statements because he's famous and has won awards for good beer.

I don't want to give money to arrogant jerks, so I won't be buying this book. ;)

I include such remarks as MrBubbly's in the category of "jerk", too. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Bob

You seem like a very unhappy person.
 
Wow, all this hate and hostility just because he says "there is no reason to stick with extract past a few batches" and "extract brewing isn't really brewing, like heating a microwave dinner" and goes on to explain why?

Opinionated, yes. But a d!ck, arrogant jerk, jagoff statements? Based on your post it appears those words do apply...but not to Gordon.

Really?

"Extract brewing isn't really brewing".

That statement arrogantly dismisses the efforts of every single extract brewer anywhere. You, there, extract user: You're not a brewer. A person who can make that statement is a d!ck, just like any person who blithely dismisses the efforts of hard-working, knowledgeable people. Of course, that's just my opinion. ;)

MalFet: Yeah, it's harsh. He's told me and thousands of my fellow brewers we're not brewers because we brew from extracts. If I'm going to be insulted harshly, I see no reason to be any less harsh.

For the record, I have brewed and now brew from grain. I brewed professionally for the better part of a decade and still consult for small and pub-breweries. At home most of my recipes involve extract, for a variety of reasons (mostly involving convenience and equipment restrictions). I've won categories, taken best in show at competitions with extract-based beer. To dismiss me as not a brewer because I use extract is highly insulting. To dismiss anyone as not a brewer because they use extract is highly insulting.

You seem like a very unhappy person.

On the contrary, I'm very happy. I just take great umbrage at being dissed over a choice of ingredient or technique, of being told I'm not a real brewer because I choose to use malt extract. Anyone who tells me that can sod right off. :) If being pissed off when insulted is now socially unacceptable, then there's something wrong with society!

I suppose if people want to feel superior because they follow the One True Path, I should be okay with that. I am okay with that, really, so long as pompous people keep their pomposity to themselves. When they publish that pomposity publicly, I see no reason why I shouldn't call them on it. I realize I'm pissing into the wind here, because Strong is an untouchable prophet like the other stars in the homebrewing pantheon (though it appears it's okay to take limited shots at Uncle Charlie), but a spade is a spade.

Cheers,

Bob
 
Bob,

I agree and disagree.

I havn't read the book yet (as I stated in OP, it should be arriving today or tomorrow), but I will build upon what has already been posted.

I agree that comparing extract brewing to a microwave dinner is not close to a fair comparison. You can't screw up the microwave dinner (that step has already been done for you), but there is still a ton of room to screw up an extract beer. Extract might get you to the boil faster, but once that boil countdown clock starts, we are all in the same boat. Personally, I believe beer is made/broken after flameout. I do not care how you want to get to that point.

I've gone on record in other posts that if I could go back in time, I would have made a lot of investments in my brew house before I reached the step of building an all-grain system and rig. An understanding and control of sanitation, yeast management (includes pitching rates, a nutrient-rich wort environment, and precise temperature control), and to a small degree recipe formation, are all more directly correlated with great beer than just making your own wort from grains.

There is no correlation between AG and good beer. There is a correlation between AG and a greater control of recipe and fermentables, but that has practically nothing to do with good beer.

On the other hand, I understand the point Gordon is trying to make. If I wanted to express that opinion, I would have approached it with a comparison that is not nearly as insulting.

Let's look at baking (in the simple context of brownies).

Some people can take a box of brownie mix, and still make a bad batch of brownies. I would be one of those people. Others are trained bakers, have developed their own recipes, start from "scratch" ingredients, and make fantastic brownies. My examples leave 2 grey areas. There are some people who can start with a box mix, but have a complete understanding of the baking process, and will make fantastic brownies. And finally, there are other people who are handed a completely handmade recipe, have no understanding of the process and make worse brownies than me (me being the one to screw up the recipe on a box). So in summary, there are 2 people, with 2 processes, and they both can end up with great brownies. There are 2 other people, also with different processes, and they can both end up with bad brownies (but those "bad brownie people" are still on some brownie forum offering advice to new bakers).

So think about those 4 people. Does the classically trained baker have a right to believe that the person who makes a great batch from a box recipe is not really a "baker"? Perhaps. I guess it depends on your definition of baking. Likewise, the defined "baker" who completely screws up a homemade recipe obviously has a lot of faults in their process, and is no more deserving of the "baker" title than the person (me) who goofed up the box recipe.

So, IMO, if Gordon Strong wants to define a "brewer" as someone who starts with malted grains, hops, water, and yeast, and finishes with outstanding beer, then who am I to argue? However, that is not the same as saying that someone who starts with extract, hops, water, and yeast, can not still finish with outstanding beer.

So maybe if I was someone who understands the process and has amazing results with extract, I would be insulted too. That is only natural. But in fairness to G.S., you are interpreting that "brewer" = "makes good beer", but in reality, the correlation is "good process" = "makes good beer". Personally, I do not care about the nuances of your process (AG/Extract , Batch/Fly sparge , primary/secondary) as long as you execute well, and the result is good beer. I can tell you why some of my choices work best for me, but I can not guarantee they will work best for you. I may have process nuances that work better for me and my system, but that comes down to different strokes for different folks.

Notice, the nuances I mentioned never come close to sanitation or yeast health. The reason for that is that unlike the little process nuances we constantly debate, I can guarantee that good recomendations for sanitation and yeast/fermentation management will in fact, always, work best for you.

Maybe I'll feel differently once I read GS's comments in context, but summizing from what was already posted, I do not think I am too far off.

Joe
 
Maybe I'll feel differently once I read GS's comments in context, but summizing from what was already posted, I do not think I am too far off.Joe

This is key. I don't think it's fair for anyone to judge what he's saying until they have read through the book themselves. Out of context, anything can sound horrible. Until I've read through the book I'm reserving judgement.

But I also agree that some of the issue boils down to semantics. And some of it is opinion. If anyone says emphatically that x is true and that's that and no other opinion can possibly be true then I would have to disagree with that. Otherwise I just take is as an opinion.
 
So, IMO, if Gordon Strong wants to define a "brewer" as someone who starts with malted grains, hops, water, and yeast, and finishes with outstanding beer, then who am I to argue? However, that is not the same as saying that someone who starts with extract, hops, water, and yeast, can not still finish with outstanding beer.
I agree. Per the posts in this thread, he never said you couldn't make great beer from extract (nor that you couldn't make a great meal with a microwave). He just said it's not really brewing...which for most secure adults isn't a big deal (it's his opinion, maybe it stinks and maybe it doesn't, no big deal). But if you're really insecure about it you'd prob get overly upset over it and start name-calling.
 
I suppose if people want to feel superior because they follow the One True Path, I should be okay with that.


If you were to read his book, this basic message is that there IS NOT one true path, and that you have to find processes that work for you, with your equipment and ingredients, to make the beer you like.

So why don't you try reading his book before you judge?
 
For the curious, here's the actual passage:

Mr. Strong said:
But why nothing on extract beers?
Ok, I said I was going to have strong opinions, so here's my first one: there's nothing in this book on brewing extract beers because making extract beers isn't really brewing any more than heating up TV dinners is cooking. When you outsource wort production, you are removing much of what the brewer does. You can make beer that way, but you won't be able to make the best beer possible or get the full value from this book unless you make the commitment to learn the complete brewing process.

You can make good extract beers but you can't make all the styles. You have to make compromises; you know you're cutting corners. You don't have full control over your system or ingredients. You can still have good results, and you can make beer quickly, but you really haven't mastered brewing. If all you want to do is make good beer quickly, and you are only interested in making a subset of the styles, then by all means remain an extract brewer.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with making extract beer. We all started that way. I made 23 extract beers in my first year-and-a-half of brewing. I entered 11 of them in 13 competitions, and won four best-of-shows and more than 25 medals. Six batches didn't turn out very well, and one was dumped (thus, I learned lessons in humility and persistence). Along the way, I learned how to pay attention to sanitation, avoid oxidation, manage a fermentation, and use different forms of ingredients. All of those were useful skills, but I had learned about as much as I could and couldn't do all the things I wanted to do. I had hit a plateau and knew I had to stepu up to all-grain if I was to keep moving ahead.

Once I moved to all-grain, I had so much more to learn, but I got more enjoyment out of it. Finally, I could make a proper Kölsch and a hefeweizen that wasn't too dark. I could make a Belgian dubbel and other beers that use dark Munich malt. I could get the proper attenuation in a Düsseldorf-style altbier using a step mash. Finally, I felt like I was brewing. I no longer felt like I was sitting at the kiddy table when I talked to other brewer friends> As I write this, it has been more than 12 years since I made that step, and I have not regretted it once.

Everybody defines the boundaries of brewing someplace, and there's no reason those boundaries can't be reduced to require growing your own barley or expanded to include merely adding an orange slice to a blue moon. It's reasonable to feel insulted by being excluded from his definition, but comparing what he's doing to anti-semitism, misogyny, and homophobia is silly (and probably a bit insulting to the people who have suffered when asshats like Gibson have gotten power). It's a bit Godwin's Law-ish.
 
Thanks MalFet for posting that passage. Right now I am an extract brewer who is absorbing all the knowledge I can and I have to say that I whole heartedly agree with Mr. Strong.
- You can make good beer with extracts.
- You do hit a wall on what you can make.
- You do have more control over what you can make with AG than with Extract.

Personally I do not think I will ever give up doing Extract beers, simply for the ease of use. I do plan to go to AG at some point and thats why I am doing all the reading I can on every aspect of the brewing process. I eventually want to have that precise control over what I am making.

I think the biggest key that was skipped over in that passage was: "strong opinions". These are his opinions and really should not be taken to heart. Then again this is just my "strong opinions" anyway.

-Stanley
 
Wow.

I have read just about everything I can get my hands on regarding brewing. I have collected just about every worthy text on the subject, including the entire classic Styles series (Yes, even Lambic and the Original Pale Ale), every collegiate text I could locate, and even a few texts regarding water chemistry and microbiology.

I forget why and where but I either heard, read, or watch "something" about Jamil (likely the show turned me off) and "something" about Gordon that, just, screamed, *****ebozzle to me about them and I have just flat out avoided reading anything by either of them.

After reading Bob's misguided rants I realize that I no longer remember what, when, or how I came to this assertion of these two accomplished brewers and that it's been so long i really dunno if my assertion was mis-interpreted through lack of context.

So, I ordered both JZ's "Yeast" and GS "Better Beer".
 
After reading Bob's misguided rants I realize that I no longer remember what, when, or how I came to this assertion of these two accomplished brewers and that it's been so long i really dunno if my assertion was mis-interpreted through lack of context.

So, I ordered both JZ's "Yeast" and GS "Better Beer".


Good choice the yeast book is great.

And I think they are both a bit *****ey at times, I mean, they enter nearly 40 beers into a homebrew competition every year. What kind of nut job has the time to brew and enter that many beers?
 
Wow.

I have read just about everything I can get my hands on regarding brewing. I have collected just about every worthy text on the subject, including the entire classic Styles series (Yes, even Lambic and the Original Pale Ale), every collegiate text I could locate, and even a few texts regarding water chemistry and microbiology.

I forget why and where but I either heard, read, or watch "something" about Jamil (likely the show turned me off) and "something" about Gordon that, just, screamed, *****ebozzle to me about them and I have just flat out avoided reading anything by either of them.

After reading Bob's misguided rants I realize that I no longer remember what, when, or how I came to this assertion of these two accomplished brewers and that it's been so long i really dunno if my assertion was mis-interpreted through lack of context.

So, I ordered both JZ's "Yeast" and GS "Better Beer".
Sick coincidence, I JUST ordered both of these books. Maybe Gordon should hire Bob because it seems he's helping with book sales.

FWIW, whether they are *****nozzles or not is pretty much irrelevant to me (and I don't know if they are or not, don't really care). Whether they are DBs would affect whether or not I hang out with either of them at length (which I don't expect to do anyway); I just want to read a good book about brewing beer. The content of the book is what I care about.
 
Good choice the yeast book is great.

And I think they are both a bit *****ey at times, I mean, they enter nearly 40 beers into a homebrew competition every year. What kind of nut job has the time to brew and enter that many beers?

Been brewing nearly 6 year now. Aside from local critiques from BJCP certs, I have never had the inclination to enter a comp. And likely never will.

So, yeah, 40 beers for a comp is lost on me. And with that many entires, it tends to make the odds a bit more favorable for the entrant.
 
Well, his opinion on some things is pretty strong, but he comes right out at the start and says it is. He also says MANY times that there are lots of ways to do most things and he explains why he prefers his method, but always encourages you to find what fits for YOUR brewing.

I tend to agree with him on the extract thing. Really, you can make great beer doing extract, but it takes just as much work to do right, and you are limited in a few ways. He isn't so much putting down extract brewers, as much explaining why HE doesn't brew extract, and after all, it's an ADVANCED brewing book. There are several other good books (which he mentions) that cater to all brewing methods.

I think it's great that he comes right out at the start and lets you know that if you are an extract brewer, and aren't planing on doing AG, then this isn't the right book for you. It doesn't come off as *****ey IMO, just stating his opinion and explaining it.

I found myself reading and thinking, "Is this better than what I do now? Would it make sense for me to change to doing this other method?" Quite often it's a matter of personal preference, or convenience rather than one way is better.
 
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