new mash turn problem

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mfp03001

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A few weeks ago I made a new mash turn that I thought was going to be a great upgrade for me. I went from a 5 gallon round cooler to a 40 qt. rectangular one. I used a braided stainless steel hose casing cut in half as the false bottom I guess you would call it. See picture below. In the 5 gallon one I have PEX tubing with a ton of small holes drilled into it which worked fine but was just too small. Anyway, I have used the new one once and I ended up with tons of grain sediment in wort. See second picture below. As you can see once it was settled the grain sediment took up about 0.5 gallons in my fermenter. I was just wondering if anyone else has ever had this problem with braided steal hose, and any advice about possibly fixing it. Also I get a terrible efficiency of about 55% while with my old mash turn I was at about 70%. My grain bill was also 37.5% wheat. I have never used wheat before in grain form, I am not sure if that was what was getting through or had anything to do with it. I did have .5 pounds of rice hulls to help with the lautering. Thanks for any advice.

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After it was almost completely done lautering the first time though I poured all the wort back though the grain bed a second time to try and remove some of the sediment. I forgot about that until you said something this was almost a month ago. I don't know if that made any difference or not. Or if I should have done it again I am sure I was not as patient as I should have been letting it run though the second time knowing me however.
 
definitely recirculate your wort till it runs clear. the grain will form its own filter.

also with your set up i would be a little worried about uneven drainage of the grain bed. there is a big gap in the middle where the grain will just sit and compact. the grain will drain fastest right by the braid and that grain will get washed of its sugars the most while in the middle there will be very little water flow and that grain wont get as washed. this could be where your efficiency problem is coming from.
 
also with your set up i would be a little worried about uneven drainage of the grain bed. there is a big gap in the middle where the grain will just sit and compact. the grain will drain fastest right by the braid and that grain will get washed of its sugars the most while in the middle there will be very little water flow and that grain wont get as washed. this could be where your efficiency problem is coming from.

I've always used manifolds, or a false bottom, but aren't there a lot of people who batch sparge using a single stainless steel braid?
 
Ok thanks I could pretty easily add one more in the middle for next time. I have extra hose still just have to replace my 3 way with a four way fitting.
 
Ok thanks I could pretty easily add one more in the middle for next time. I have extra hose still just have to replace my 3 way with a four way fitting.

If you are batch sparging, that is totally unnecessary. Channelization and uneven drainage are only an issue if you fly sparge. Such issues are largely irrelevant if you batch sparge (in fact, I suspect that channelizing is a GOOD thing if you batch sparge).

Anyways, to answer your original question, your problem was with your process not your equipment. Spend a bit more time lautering and allowing your wort to clear (i.e. vorlauf) and that will eliminate the grain material in your fermenter.
 
Would it be possible to use a very large straining bag in the MLT to also help out on filtering? I'm not sure if that would effect the mashing in a negative way or not.
 
Well thanks for all the suggestions definitely it seems like my process is the biggest problem then. I do only have a few all grains under my belt.
 
It also looks like the ends of your braid remain open. It might be possible for small grain particles to enter through those ends even though they are frayed up. Try pulling the ends taught so they reduce in diameter, then tuck them back into the braid tube. Repeat this process until the end is closed. I did this and was able to get a plug on the end of my tube that doesn't let particulate matter in, also it doesn't poke me when cleaning.

If I didnt explain that clearly enough let me know. I can probably do a better job.
 
The ends are actually closed I folded them over and stapled them with a staple gun. Pretty positive nothing is getting in there. I also had them taped down at the ends with duct tape when I used it, not sure how healthy that was but it held them in place.
 
It's hard to tell from the picture, but how stiff is that braid? One thing that will definitely effect your efficiency is if that braid is getting crushed. One key to having a successful manifold, false-bottom, braid coil, etc is permeable surface area against the bottom of the grain bed. The liquid will not travel on much more than a 45% angle to "leave" the tun, so it's important that your hose not get crushed under the weight of wet grain. If it does, the permeable surface is reduced to the area near the PVC only leaving you with proper rinsing from that "side" of the tun only.

--
Josh
 
After it was almost completely done lautering the first time though I poured all the wort back though the grain bed ...

You are doing it wrong. If you drain out all the liquid and pour it back in your going to disturb the grain bed too much. Assuming your batch sparging slowly drain out a quart or two and gently return it to the top, repeat until what is coming out is clear then drain to your boil kettle. This allows the grain bed to become it's own filter. After you have drained all the wort then close your valve and add your sparge water. Stir and let stand a couple min then repeat the vorlauf step until it is clear again and drain.
 
definitely recirculate your wort till it runs clear. the grain will form its own filter.

also with your set up i would be a little worried about uneven drainage of the grain bed. there is a big gap in the middle where the grain will just sit and compact. the grain will drain fastest right by the braid and that grain will get washed of its sugars the most while in the middle there will be very little water flow and that grain wont get as washed. this could be where your efficiency problem is coming from.
I've always used manifolds, or a false bottom, but aren't there a lot of people who batch sparge using a single stainless steel braid?


Oh yeah, if you are batch sparging this is not a concern since you drain out all the wort before adding your sparge water. If you are fly sparging the the way fluid drains through the grain matters a whole lot and you should read the appropriate parts in Palmer's How To Brew Appendix D regarding fluid mechanics in the grain bed and manifold construction,
 
On the issue of using duct tape, that's probably not the best or safest solution. See FlyGuy's thread on converting a cooler to a MLT (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/).

In it he recommends using a brass square head plug that you put into the end of the SS braid and secure w/ a hoseclamp. Not only does this seal the end of the braid, it also adds weight and keeps the end of the braid from floating up. It's what I do and I haven't had a problem.

Cheers
 
You are doing it wrong. If you drain out all the liquid and pour it back in your going to disturb the grain bed too much. Assuming your batch sparging slowly drain out a quart or two and gently return it to the top, repeat until what is coming out is clear then drain to your boil kettle. This allows the grain bed to become it's own filter. After you have drained all the wort then close your valve and add your sparge water. Stir and let stand a couple min then repeat the vorlauf step until it is clear again and drain.

This is likely your problem, follow these directions. I usually have to run at least a few gallons (and add what has drained out slowly back to the tun without disturbing the grain bed). I.e. drain 1/2 g, add back, drain 1/2 g, add back, continue until it is running clear then drain completely into your kettle. Add sparge water, repeat vorlauf process, etc.
 
Assuming your batch sparging slowly drain out a quart or two and gently return it to the top, repeat until what is coming out is clear then drain to your boil kettle. This allows the grain bed to become it's own filter.

At first it didn't click with me why the OP would be "adding back" the first runnings. I quickly realized that this is a necessary step for a gravity-fed vorlauf.

Luckily I've always had a pump involved which makes clearing the wort and setting the grainbed a thing of ease.

--
Josh
 
I just thought that I would let everyone know I made a new batch and got a 75% efficiency (up from 55% last time) with this mash turn :) The changes that I made were:

1. I shortened the metal mesh hoses so that they ran straightfrom end to end and didn't have to curve.

2. I shortened the "T" section of my fittings so the hoses were centered. By this I mean the space between the hoses and walls is now about half that as the space between the two tubes. Like in Palmer's book.

3. Recirculated everything till it was running clean, and I learned to pour it back in very gently.

4. Probably the biggest thing. My total laundering time was about 2 hours and 15 min. I let it run very slowly.

So thanks for all the advice it sure helped.
 
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