Man, I love Apfelwein

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
My next batch of beer is going to be an Irish Red Ale of some sort, with Wyeast 1084 Irish yeast.

Would it be a horrible thing to dump 5 gallons of apple juice on top of the 1084 yeast cake? I'd like to make some Apfelwein, but I don't want to waste that wonderful yeast cake either...

Kevin
 
Kevin K said:
Would it be a horrible thing to dump 5 gallons of apple juice on top of the 1084 yeast cake? I'd like to make some Apfelwein, but I don't want to waste that wonderful yeast cake either...

Kevin

I think that would be a VERY bad idea. Don't you have a spare secondary or even a corney?
 
I thought I had read earlier in this gargantuan thread that someone else had used the yeast cake from a previous beer.

Might have been too many homebrews though...
 
The issue isn't that it won't ferment (it will).
The issue is whether the ale will flavor the apfelwein negatively (it might).

Usually you throw complimentary beers on the same cake.
 
mew said:
I tasted some of my apfelwein as I was about to bottle it, but it tasted like pickles! Not vinegar, pickles. I did my primary for five days in an old pickle bucket because all my other fermenters were busy. I soaked the bucket in bleach overnight and then in water for a day before I used it. I thought that with such a long time in secondary and a short time in primary it would be okay. my question is this: will the pickle taste age out over the next few months, or is it there for good? I tasted it after about five days in the bottle and it was a little better, but still undrinkable. Did I waste this batch?

Ick! I can't tell you on this. I don't use a secondary. I just pour the juice into a Carboy and let it rip.

On the bright side you did not spend a bunch of time makeing it, so if it's still bad after a month, be glad it's not a bunch of beer you took 6 hours to make.

Pickled Apfelwin. Hmm:confused:
 
Kevin K said:
Would it be a horrible thing to dump 5 gallons of apple juice on top of the 1084 yeast cake? I'd like to make some Apfelwein, but I don't want to waste that wonderful yeast cake either...Kevin

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DO NOT USE THE YEAST CAKE. BUY A 89 CENT PACKET OF MONTRACHET YEAST.

Ok, now that's off my chest. Follow my recipe and you will get great results. I can't help you if you vary on the juice, yeast, or if you use a pickle bucket for a fermenter. :cross:
 
Ok, the wife really wanted me to make this, and now it is sitting in my brew room/fermentation room, and is stinking up the whole house with sulfur, and she's not happy about it.

I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
 
The smell goes away pretty quickly, in my (limited) experience. It was really only one or two days at the most. Tell your wife that she's smelled rank for a lot longer than that, and you're still married to her. On second thought, don't.
 
the_bird said:
The smell goes away pretty quickly, in my (limited) experience. It was really only one or two days at the most. Tell your wife that she's smelled rank for a lot longer than that, and you're still married to her. On second thought, don't.

*LoL*

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't get me anywhere. :D
 
wow I cant believe I haven't read this yet. Definitely going to make this so I have some for Christmas.

Is there any need to age once its kegged and carbonated? Or just chill, carb and serve?
 
Biermann said:
Ok, the wife really wanted me to make this, and now it is sitting in my brew room/fermentation room, and is stinking up the whole house with sulfur, and she's not happy about it.

I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Get some air moving. I goes away after a day or two.

She'll love you after 7 weeks when you keg it and she now claims a faucet as "Her Faucet" Finger Weg!

Then again its a good thing when she claims your faucet!:drunk:
 
EdWort said:
Get some air moving. I goes away after a day or two.

She'll love you after 7 weeks when you keg it and she now claims a faucet as "Her Faucet" Finger Weg!

Then again its a good thing when she claims your faucet!:drunk:

Well, the dogs came to my rescue as far as the smell goes. . . I came home today, and they had $#it and urinated all over the floor, drowning out the sulfur smell, so my wife didn't gripe. . .of course, I had to clean all the crap up, and ended up vomiting on the floor because of the smell. . . . :drunk:
 
EdWort said:
Get some air moving. I goes away after a day or two...

Ed, aren't you supposed to be in Munich? Or are you like me, I'm supposed to be in VA but am still in AZ because of the weather! Trying again tomorrow...
 
desertBrew said:
Ed, aren't you supposed to be in Munich? Or are you like me, I'm supposed to be in VA but am still in AZ because of the weather! Trying again tomorrow...

Yep. I'm in Munich. Did my work in Augsburg today, now working enjoying the weekend. It's almost time for dinner & Weissbier. :cross:
 
I had my first taste of Apfelwein today as I kegged it. It was flat and warm, but MAN, did it taste GOOD! I used Ed's exact recipe and I can't wait until it carbs. I may even have to buy a new carboy so I can have this stuff around all the time because I KNOW SWMBO is gonna be a fan too.

I was thinking a ported 5 or 6 gal better bottle would be pretty nice for this stuff, any reason why I shouldn't use a port?
 
rdwj said:
I had my first taste of Apfelwein today as I kegged it. It was flat and warm, but MAN, did it taste GOOD! I used Ed's exact recipe and I can't wait until it carbs.

Ah yes Grasshopper, you understand now! This Schtuff rocks eh?
 
Hmm. . . my apfelwein looks like complete crap right now. . . SWMBO is having doubts, especially after the smell. It has turned a dirty white color.

I told her its just fermenting.

She needs to stay out of the fermenting room.
 
EdWort said:
Yeah baby, that's the way to go. Do it right, the second time! :D

Ya, never mess with a recipe the first time. You need to know what it is before you can improve it ...that is, IF you can improve it
 
Update on mine, brewed 11/15. No active fermentation signs for about 5-7 days (it seems to have fermented quickly in less than 10-12 days?), so today I finally checked the gravity. Looks like I'm at 0.099 FG. My SG was 1.067, so I'm guessing this *is* done fermenting. Smells apply, but I didn't taste b/c it was still a bit cloudy. Could definitely smell the apple in it though. We'll see what happens.

Now just one question. I've had this in a plastic bucket fermenting for the last 17-18 days. I don't have a 3 gallon glass carboy. Will it hurt to leave this in plastic for the entire 4 weeks or should I find some gallon glass jugs somewhere (buy some stuff at the grocery store/farmers market?) and get this out of plastic? My LHBS is only open Wed. and Sat. and I haven't had a chance to get a 3 gallon carboy (and won't be able to until next saturday at best).
 
Well Ed, I bought the apple juice to start my first cider. I just need to pick up the yeast and any other stuff that should go in there. Work is sending me up to Northen CA for the week, so I'll have to start it next weekend. Can't wait!
 
Mine had an OG of 1.073 (Maker's Mark juice from Sam's + 2 lbs corn sugar). It's fermenting quite steadily at a little over 60 degrees right now. Can't wait to try it!
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Mine had an OG of 1.073 (Maker's Mark juice from Sam's + 2 lbs corn sugar). It's fermenting quite steadily at a little over 60 degrees right now. Can't wait to try it!

You are right on target for 8.5% Apfelwein. Whoo Hoo:rockin:
 
Brewsmith said:
Well Ed, I bought the apple juice to start my first cider. I just need to pick up the yeast and any other stuff that should go in there. Work is sending me up to Northen CA for the week, so I'll have to start it next weekend. Can't wait!

Yeah, patience is required for this stuff. I'm happy to know while I'm here in Munich drinking awsome beer, my Apfelwein at home is getting better and better. I wanted to start another batch before I left, but getting a batch kegged and racking my first Cabernet Sauvignon was enough work before the rush to the airport.

When I get home I have to start a batch of Neuewein or Federweisser for my mother in law.

That's a whole new thread I'll start when I do it and expose ya'll to another German tradition from the wine growing region of Bergsgtrasse and the Pfalz. The folks start drinking wine right after harvest. About 10 days after the yeast has been pitched. Very good stuff!

Federweisser!
 
Biermann said:
Hmm. . . my apfelwein looks like complete crap right now. . . SWMBO is having doubts, especially after the smell. It has turned a dirty white color.

I told her its just fermenting.

She needs to stay out of the fermenting room.

Wegen deinen Frau, Das Stimts!

Mann braucht eingfach geduld. Oder?
 
Brewsmith said:
Well Ed, I bought the apple juice to start my first cider. I just need to pick up the yeast and any other stuff that should go in there. Work is sending me up to Northen CA for the week, so I'll have to start it next weekend. Can't wait!

Cool! Stick with the recipe and you should be a happy camper (if you like a dry, crisp cider that will kick you in the butt).
 
SilkkyBrew said:
Update on mine, brewed 11/15. No active fermentation signs for about 5-7 days (it seems to have fermented quickly in less than 10-12 days?), so today I finally checked the gravity. Looks like I'm at 0.099 FG. My SG was 1.067, so I'm guessing this *is* done fermenting. Smells apply, but I didn't taste b/c it was still a bit cloudy. Could definitely smell the apple in it though. We'll see what happens.

Now just one question. I've had this in a plastic bucket fermenting for the last 17-18 days. I don't have a 3 gallon glass carboy. Will it hurt to leave this in plastic for the entire 4 weeks or should I find some gallon glass jugs somewhere (buy some stuff at the grocery store/farmers market?) and get this out of plastic? My LHBS is only open Wed. and Sat. and I haven't had a chance to get a 3 gallon carboy (and won't be able to until next saturday at best).

Plastic should be fine. It may look like no active fermentation, but believe me there is stuff going on. In a carboy you would see tiny bubbles rising on the edges. I kegged a 6 gallon carboy before I left for Germany and the extra gallon I put in an Apple juice bottle. I have to vent it once a week.

Stuff is going on.
 
Any opinions as to how long this can be left in primary? Mine has been four weeks and is still producing a few small bubbles on the surface of the cider. It has cleared up a lot in the last week - I can hold my hand on the other side of the carboy and see clear through to it.

I would transfer to a secondary, but I'm fresh out of carboys. Need to buy some more.
 
alemonkey said:
Any opinions as to how long this can be left in primary? Mine has been four weeks and is still producing a few small bubbles on the surface of the cider. It has cleared up a lot in the last week - I can hold my hand on the other side of the carboy and see clear through to it.

I would transfer to a secondary, but I'm fresh out of carboys. Need to buy some more.

I think Ed said that 4 weeks was a minimum. I can't see why leaving it in primary longer wouldn't hurt--it will probably help.

:mug:
 
Sounds good, just wanted to make sure autolysis isn't going to be a problem. I'm in unfamiliar territory here with the wine yeast.

BTW, smells great coming out of the airlock.
 
Oh yeah, SWMBO was NOT happy about that. It stunk so bad I thought someone had either dropped a big old steamer in the basement toilet or the sewer was backed up. Luckily that subsided after a few days.
 
alemonkey said:
Oh yeah, SWMBO was NOT happy about that. It stunk so bad I thought someone had either dropped a big old steamer in the basement toilet or the sewer was backed up. Luckily that subsided after a few days.

Ah yes, the big steamer.....

When SWMBO tastes the fruits of your labor, steamers will be long forgotten
 
Well, I am drinking my fist batch of cider so quickly that I thoght I had better get a second batch going so I can have something to drink around New Years! So....I stopped by my local HBS this evening and bought 4# of dextrose and a few packets of montrachet wine yeast....gonna get a batch of Apfelwein going! I have a great aunt from Germany that I am close to and called her and told her what I was going to brew...she went crazy and made me promise her a six pack of it!

My wife has never had a homebrew (not a beer drinker) and doesn't care for cider...but she does love her merlot and cabernet....thinking that maybe this will be something I can brew that she will enjoy! Fingers crossed!
 
What a great thread. LMAO about the steamers and dogs. I nearly died laughing reading about using the pickle barrel !

I'm going to make some of this tomorrow.

Questions.

1) What is up with the sulfur smell ? I brew fruit wines all the time and I never get sulphur smells. (Peaches, apricot, etc.) I've never done an apple wine though. I suspect that something needs to be added to the "must" (as they call it in wine circles) to kill off natural yeasts. I'll look into it and report back.

2) Could (sterilized) water + frozen concentrate be used instead of liquid apple juice ? I've never purchased apple juice in half gallon or gallon jugs before, so I am not sure about the price. But we make apple juice with concentrate all the time and its pretty yummy by my standards.

3) As far as sweetening things, we do this all the time with fruit wines, because some fruits ferment out perfectly dry, especially with active wine yeasts. To sweeten them, we use something called wine conditioner, which is a yeast sterilizer (I forget the name at the moment, but I know I have some, potassium sorbate comes to mine, but I'm not sure) and a sweetener.

I wonder if one wanted more sweetness and apple taste if one could use the yeast sterilizer and then add a can of concentrate ? Seems to me that would both sweeten it and give it more apple flavor. My SO other will want a bit of sweetness and apple flavor.

My inlaws and my wife's grandparents are German to the core. They should like this.

I am going to brew to Ed's recipe, subject to the replies about concentrate + water. I'll experiment a bit with sterilizing the yeast and sweetening.

I wish I would have found this a few weeks ago, so we could have some for Christmas. Looks like it will be too late now ! I hope not though...

One more thing... I wouldn't age in the plastic pail primary. Wines are more delicate than beers and very prone to oxidation. Some winemakers even add a little sulfur at each racking to allow the wine to generate some CO2 to fight off oxidation. If it was mine, I'd age in a carboy. Heck, I won't won't even primary ferment in a plastic pail anymore.
 
OK, I did some research and I don't think the sulfur generation is normal or desireable.

The source, as far as I can tell, could be wild yeasts in the juice starting to ferment or the production of H2S from a combination of factors, most likely the wrong yeast, lack of racking, etc.

I make fruit wines as well as beer. My textbook for fruit wines is this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0156970953/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've never had an sulfur smell from any fruit wines that I've brewed.

As far as the wild yeasts go, on page 238, it states to add 80 to 100 ppm of sulfite to "kill wild yeasts prior to fermentation". I add sulphite crystals as directed to all the fruit wines I make.

One has to remember that fermenting wine musts is different than fermenting wort. Wort has just been boiled and it and the container is sterile. Fruits are exactly the opposite. They are simply washed and used. They are loaded with bacteria, organisms, etc. Never the less, I strongly suspect that the apple juice from the store is basically sterile.

I think the real problem is the fermentation conditions.

Page 267 says this:

"Hydrogen sulphide is created by wine yeast during fermentation and some strains such as Montrachet, produce more H2S than others. Generally the problem is not apparent until the secondary fermentation stage. During the secondary fermentation, the dead yeast cells build up in the sediment, and as they break down, their natural sulfur content is reduced to Hydrogen Sulphide. The heavier the deposit and the warmer the temperature - the greater the probability of hydrogen sulfide developing."

It goes on to say that if the smell stays in the wine for longer than a week, it changes to other substances and ruins the wine.

Treatment

aeration, adding sulfur dioxide, adding copper sulfate. According to them, these are only make shift actions.

Prevention

Use a different yeast. After INITIAL racking, don't leave the wine on the yeast more than 10 days. For these authors, initial fermentation is done when SG hits 1.020 or so and they rack to a secondary fermentor at that point.

They don't say it, but fermenting at a colder temperature will help as well.

All their apple wine recipes use a champagne yeast. (Bayanus Champagne.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top