Support your local homebrew shop?

So I brewed my 1st batch in over two years last weekend. Since it was a spur of the moment brew session I had to buy my grains locally. Because I had moved since my last homebrew session I wasn't sure where to get my ingredients so I did a quick internet search and found the only shop in Regina Sk, that had a decent selection of grains and hops.

I went in to the shop and it was your usual wine store. You know the type that sells the whole selection of wine expert kits and the line of canned beer kits with a few brew in a box kits. In the center of the store was a small island of grains and other adjuncts. I was a little put off by how the grain was stored, just open bags under the table. I would have rather seen some sort of storage bins. I am sure that having the bag open on the floor isn't good for it.

So I put the grain bill together, there wasn't enough Marris otter malt so I bought all 9lbs they had and will complete my grain bill with pale malt. Their selection of malts wasn't bad and neither was the selection of hops. I wasnt able to get my first or second choices so we ended up using the BYO hop guide to make substations. Having sampled the wort I can say the hop profile is very close to what I was looking for.

The Yest selection wasn't great either. I wanted the Wyeast smack packs but the owner explained that they don't get enough demand to warrant carrying them. So I got some Safale yeasts. It was weird that they were not packaged in the usual foil packets but in small ziploc bags with about half an ounce of yeast. They had the same tacky sticky bubble jet printer labels on everything. It was very armature.

I hadn't been paying attention to the prices while we where grabbing the ingredients. When we totalled everything up it came to over $240! Now mind you I was expecting to pay a fair bit because I was making two 10 gal. batches. But that was too much. Feeling obliged to make the purchase I asked if their was a discount for such a large purchase but the owner said no so I just passed the old visa card and left the store feeling a little violated.

When I got home I dissected the receipt. I started to get angry I was charged nearly $8 a pound for base malts and $8 an ounce for hops. I understand that they cant compete with the big home brew shops with their small volume, but the prices we were charged are pretty much highway robbery. I will not be going back to that store. I looked and with shipping it would have been at least $100 less to order.

If these store owners want to get into selling beer grains they need to be more realistic with their prices. At these prices they wont sell any grains at all. Realistically they need to take grain more seriously. Alsothey should get rid of the hand powered carona mill and get a real mill.

Wow, I would have told them to keep their ingredients. I pay about 1.85 for all malts at my LHBS. $8 per lb is highway robbery.

IF you ever go back there I'd say something, that's just wrong

At those prices it would have been cheaper to do an extract batch. Oh wait, extract at that store must be $14 a pound. ;P those are crazy prices. I thought my local shop was a bit much at $2-2.5 a pound for grain and $3 an oz for hops. I would not use that yeast. They probably bought a 500 gram brick of yeast and separated it themselves into smaller bags. I doubt they did it in a controlled sterile environment.

That's one LHBS I would not feel bad about not supporting. It's no wonder they don't get enough demand...

My lhbs only charges $1 - $2/lb for base malts and less than $3/oz for hops (usually around $2). On top of that, 10% of every purchase I make goes right into my home brew club's coffers!

My LHBS has great prices... you have to keep in mind, there's no "Amazon" of online vendors that will always have better prices than your local store. Most are just brick and mortar stores that decided to grow and sell online as well.

I'm in England I'd I almost choked on my dinner reading this ... That's ridiculous !!! You could of got all the grains posted from England for half of what you paid in the US , I'm all for supporting local brew shops I've got a grate one near me called the hop and grape( they post to the US) ... But I not only use them because they are local I use them because they are cheaper than the larger online shops, and the range they have is second to non, for ingredients and equipment ...I guess my point is ,I'm all for supporting your brew shop but the people who run them need to be in it not ,only for the money but have an understanding of what they are doing..
Rant over

alix101 said:

I'm in England I'd I almost choked on my dinner reading this ... That's ridiculous !!! You could of got all the grains posted from England for half of what you paid in the US , I'm all for supporting local brew shops I've got a grate one near me called the hop and grape( they post to the US) ... But I not only use them because they are local I use them because they are cheaper than the larger online shops, and the range they have is second to non, for ingredients and equipment ...I guess my point is ,I'm all for supporting your brew shop but the people who run them need to be in it not ,only for the money but have an understanding of what they are doing..
Rant over

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THe OP is in Canada, not the US. I've never seen prices that high in the US

Paul you are right, there is no store like Amazon for home brew but there is no excuse for charging $8 a pound for marris otter malt when a 55lb sack from western malt distibutors in Saskatoon (less than 300km, 186 miles) is only $67! Either they need to change their suppliers or stop gouging! At these prices they wont be in buisness long!

You got robbed. Call the store and ask the price for grains and hops, see if they saw you as a sucker and over charged you willingly. And anyone separating dry yeast into baggies is trying their best to ruin your beer.

My LHBS is Homebrew Headquarters in Richardson TX. They have a good selection every time I go in there and their prices are in line with most everyone. They are really nice and helpful. I love my LHBS!!

Wing Nut said:

Paul you are right, there is no store like Amazon for home brew but there is no excuse for charging $8 a pound for marris otter malt when a 55lb sack from western malt distibutors in Saskatoon (less than 300km, 186 miles) is only $67! Either they need to change their suppliers or stop gouging! At these prices they wont be in buisness long!

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No, I completely agree with you. I just don't want people to be turned off from looking for a LHBS because they think the prices will always be higher- all of the online shops are a LHBS somewhere. YMMV.

SwampassJ said:

You got robbed. Call the store and ask the price for grains and hops, see if they saw you as a sucker and over charged you willingly. And anyone separating dry yeast into baggies is trying their best to ruin your beer.

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They are skimming at best and trying to squeeze every bit of profit they can out of their customers.

Try Adventures in Homebrewing - www.homebrewing.org
They are based in the Detroit area, so I am sure that they have done some international shipping. They are my LHBS and the staff is always great to me with fair pricing.

i have a 20-25% threshold for buying local on substantial purchases. sounds like they charged the 5lb price per pound.

Same here. I'll buy locally even if it's a little more. But those prices are crazy, there had to have been some mistake.

buffalobrewer said:

i have a 20-25% threshold for buying local on substantial purchases. sounds like they charged the 5lb price per pound.

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I've noticed the LHBS I use (My LHBS in Falls Church VA) seems to have slightly higher prices than online (although they're still extremely fair), and I use it for just about everything. The selection is small (as is the location), but the guy who runs it has always been really cool and really helpful. If he doesn't have exactly what I want, he's always been willing to help me pick out something suitable to replace it. I figure the more business I can give the guy, the better.

My LHBS is the same mostly wine but the owner knows a fair amount about beer as well. They have a guy that volunteers their once a week who knows a lot about beer. Their prices are pretty high and the selection sucks. If I just need a few things I try to go there, mainly just to talk to someone about beer. The funny thing is there is a restaurant supply store down the street that just has a room with homebrew supplies and absolutely noone there knows anything about homebrewing at all, and they always have what I need.

Holy **** they open the yeast packets and pour them into baggies? They pretty much ruined the yeast! It'll work with a starter but that is crazy sketchy.

Not only that but those prices are about a 500% markup.

That's insane. Definitely call them and ask what their prices per pound of malt and per ounce of hops are, be friendly. Get the person's name too. If there's a difference in price, go back there and raise hell.

My homebrew store is a little high on everything but I still end up saving over shipping. That is crazy tho. Feeling better about my store now heheh.

My LHBS charges $3/lb on all grains. I was reluctant to pay it but did. A week later I ended up talking with a brewer from a local brewery. They have 2 brewpubs and a production facility. They will sell 55lb sacks to the public at their cost at the production brewery. They go through around 300,000 lb per year and because of that their per pound cost is between 30 and 80 cents per pound. I already have a sack of Marris Otter but will be buying all my future base malt and will likely be splitting some specialty malt purchases through them.

Jesus... I buy my base grains in bulk (group buys), and a whole 50 or 55lb sack costs me between $25 and $30, depending on what it is. At $8/lb, that is equivalent to 3 or 4 lbs - a markup of up to nearly 2000% (20 times cost). For the cost of a typical 10gal grain bill at those prices, I can literally fill up all my bulk grain containers from empty (that's 6 whole sacks' worth).

It'd suck to be nailed like that... I have no idea what I'd do in your position. But clearly I'm in the wrong business!

I probably would have said, "**** off!" and walked out without paying, but then I would have asked about prices if they weren't posted. Granted, if they quoted $8 a pound, I would have said, "*** off!" and walked out.

What is everyone paying for Wyeast Activator packs?

Less than what the OP got taken for a pound of 2 row.

Mongrel said:

Less than what the OP got taken for a pound of 2 row.

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That's what I was afraid of. I think my shop is getting $8.99.

To be fair, the cost of an activator pack almost pays for my drive to Wyeast. You've got some transport costs.

This makes me not feel so bad about my purchase today!

The owner talked me into Brewferm dry yeast instead of the Windsor I had chosen. I got home, was about to hydrate the yeast and saw the expiration of January 2011. I still hydrated and pitched it but I will be giving them a call to let them know.

I was shocked the dry yeast was expired because they usually have expirations of at least a year or two in the future.

Mongrel said:

To be fair, the cost of an activator pack almost pays for my drive to Wyeast. You've got some transport costs.

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Uh.. what?

My LHBS is a little higher than online, but their prices are still quite reasonable -and I certainly support them every chance I get (its really nice to be able to run into town and grab ingredients to brew on a whim -and they do give discounts for bulk purchases -I just don't have the space at this time for that sort of thing) -however, if they were gouging like the OPs' LHBS, I'd have told them 'keep it' in no uncertain terms!
The fact that they treated their grains with so much indifference (open bags ?!?) is clear evidence that they are NOT a beer brewing supply shop -but a wine-shop first. Sorry but I just outright CRINGED when you said they sold their yeast in little baggies... <shudder> -how do you know you even got what you were buying? You don't. And at those prices, they should have not only been professionally kept, but hand-delivered to your door.
I would definitely write them a letter protesting this treatment, and let them know that you WILL be spreading the word on how they conduct business. There really is no excuse for it.

jeepinjeepin said:

What is everyone paying for Wyeast Activator packs?

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upper 7 dollar range (close to 8) -but I usually only purchase them once -and harvest the yeast after fermenting, store a large amount (over 100ml of cake) in my frozen yeast bank, so its not bad at all
In fact, next year I'll make it a habit of purchasing the briefly offered specialty yeasts that both Wyeast and White Labs offers, just to freeze 'em and add to my bank.
My ultimate goal is to have a large enough bank to brew whatever I want without having to purchase yeast.

Nightbiker said:

upper 7 dollar range (close to 8) -but I usually only purchase them once -and harvest the yeast after fermenting, store a large amount (over 100ml of cake) in my frozen yeast bank, so its not bad at all
In fact, next year I'll make it a habit of purchasing the briefly offered specialty yeasts that both Wyeast and White Labs offers, just to freeze 'em and add to my bank.
My ultimate goal is to have a large enough bank to brew whatever I want without having to purchase yeast.

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Awesome. I'm just getting started, but look forward to something like that.

emjay said:

It'd suck to be nailed like that... I have no idea what I'd do in your position. But clearly I'm in the wrong business!

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Not at all... you are in the wrong ethics. There are shysters (i have no idea how to spell that word) in every business!!

Totally agree. There have been times (few, thankfully) that sticker-shock hit me, and I still purchased rather than just saying 'no' -but the end-result is always the same: It made me angry and I felt taken advantage of. I also NEVER patronized the place again -and when anyone asked (I never went out of my way to say it, but didn't mince words when asked) I discouraged them from ever visiting the place.
An old saying: "Short-term gain, long-term loss" applies very well in this instance. I've seen more than one business ending up shutting its' doors because of this kind of stupidity.
They may be the only game in the OPs' town, but we live in a WORLD market.

What a terrible experience. Yikes.

There is a fantastic brew club in Regina that I'm 100% sure can help you get ingredients at a reasonable cost. The club is the Ale and Lager Enthusiasts of Saskatchewan; their website is www.alesclub.com I know one of the members and will put you in touch if you PM me your email address. Or, go down to Bushwakker Brew Pub at 2206 Dewdney avenue (www.bushwakker.com) and talk to their head brewer, Mitch. I'm sure he can hook you up as well.

Good luck!

Wing Nut said:

The Yest selection wasn't great either. I wanted the Wyeast smack packs but the owner explained that they don't get enough demand to warrant carrying them. So I got some Safale yeasts. It was weird that they were not packaged in the usual foil packets but in small ziploc bags with about half an ounce of yeast. They had the same tacky sticky bubble jet printer labels on everything. It was very armature.

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Maybe if they didn't rape their customers on the prices, they'd get more demand for their products. You're a much better man than I am, I would have told that guy where he can put his grains if he tried charging me that much. Most grain at my LHBS is < $2.00 per lb, and hopes are usually $1.99 an ounce. They have awesome selection, decent prices for a brick and mortar, and store their ingredients as they're supposed to. They do great business, and always have a lot of customers in the store. If you run a good operation, the business will follow.

Thanks for the support everyone, I never thought about the yeast being a big deal till you all mentioned how it might be. I will not be buying yeast or anything from them ever again. I will be sure to check out the local home brew club, it would seem that they are done till the fall now though. I should be good for a while seeing as I have made 20 Gal. in the last week.

I am thinking that I will be sending a quick e-mail expressing my disappointment with this establishment. I am going to show them the prices that other homebrew stores are charging and suggest they come up with a more reasonable price.

Cheers

Wing nut

Just send them this:

MeatyPortion said:

Just send them this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KqqRPvM_Sw

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+++1

Made my day!

Here is the letter I composed that I plan to send. Any thoughts or comments?

To whom it may concern;

I visited your store Saturday the 28th of May because I needed the ingredients to make 2 ten gallon batches of beer that weekend. I would like to complement you on your effort in having a good selection of grains and hops but I would like to take a moment to express my disappointment with a few details of our transaction.

1st is the storage of the grains. Though most of the grains where in Ziploc baggies the pale malt was stored on the floor in an open bag. I would prefer to see it stored in a container of some sort to minimize the oxidation of the grains.

2nd was your lack of adequate measuring equipment. The small scale you had was not sufficient for measuring a quantity of grains that I was looking to purchase. I also doubt that the small kitchen scale is legal for trade.

3rd the yeast, I didn&#8217;t think of it at the time but after discussions with other brewers it was brought to my attention that using the small baggies of yeast was just inviting wild yeasts and microbes to infect my beer. In the future I would recommend selling the foil packets supplied by the yeast manufacture because they have been filled and sealed in a clean room and ensures that you are only getting a clean strain of yeast.

4th The prices, I understand that as a small home brew shop you have a high overhead and small demand for specialty items like grains and hops. However I find your prices to be completely out of line. I purchased 9lbs of Marris-otter malt at $7.99 a pound. I have found it at a number of other homebrew shops that sell via mail order for less than $2 a pound. The price I paid for hops as well was obscene, I was charged $4.99 an oz for German Perle hops where as most places are selling them for $2.50 an oz.

It had been a long while since I had bought beer ingredients and I had never made two batches of this size. So when the total came too over $240 I was shocked but assumed that is was pretty close to correct. After doing some research on line with other homebrew shops I found that your prices are completely out of line and I feel that I am being gouged. I can understand paying a premium for having a local store but I will not be patronizing your store in the future when it is less than half the price to order from another homebrew shop thru mail order.

I hope that you take the time to read my comments and take them as constructive criticism. I know many people would come to the same conclusion as I have and never return leaving you wondering why your products aren&#8217;t selling and where all the customers have gone, but I would like to see the local homebrew stores succeed.

Thank you for your time and I hope to do business with you again in the future.

I have a store right around the corner from me, and the owner is really cool.

...which makes it a dilemma. His prices are great for yeast and hops (better than online, unbelievably), ok for grain, but much more for extract. That's a killer, because I have been brewing and drinking a ton of mostly-extract ale since April.The dealbreaker, though, is that the extract from AHS (and presumably Morebeer.com) is so much *fresher*. It's like a night/day difference in finished product. Maybe he sells mostly wine kits?

I would buy the other stuff from him, but I feel weird, because he would know I was going elsewhere. It sucks. I was just out drinking with the guy Sat night!