Cask Ale Questions - Serving Temp and Small Batches

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blackcows

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I am thinking of trying my hand at real ale and have a few questions. I have been reading here and other places on the net and learing a lot. It seems as though one of the biggest issues people face is that it is usually not possible to drink 5 gallons over the course of a few days if it's just a few people drinking. I have plenty of 5 gallon kegs, would there be anything wrong with splitting a batch of beer, 2 gallons to serve as a cask ale and 3 gallons to put on gas and serve as normal, or 1 gallon and 4 gallons? Also how are you achieving a 50 degree serving temp? I don't really have an extra fridge to dedicate to this and I would think a jockey box would make the beer to cool.

One other thought if you serve this all in the matter of one evening did you really accomplish the goal of serving a cask ale or must you drink it over several days to get the full effect?

Mike
 
Cask ale kegs are completely different than a corny keg. You'll want to find an older keg that has the bung in the side and a spigot. They make them in 5 gallon sizes, but they're very hard to find and expensive. I've been looking for one for years.

Anyhow... when I attended the Great Taste of the Midwest this year, they had a tent completely devoted to real ales. It's where I spent most of my time and....WOW!

They basically just threw a 7lb. bag of ice on their keg while it was sitting on a rack. This kept it right around 55 degrees.

Real ale doesn't really need to be drank over a few days to get the feel of it...it's just fun to see how the yeast works its magic over a few days.

Look into building a beer engine if you're concidered cask ale. I've seen plans somewhere online.

I'm not sure if you've really thought about this, but bottled homebrew is exactly the same thing as cask ale. Serve it at 55 and you've got yourself a cask without the cask.
 
Cask ale kegs are completely different than a corny keg. You'll want to find an older keg that has the bung in the side and a spigot. They make them in 5 gallon sizes, but they're very hard to find and expensive. I've been looking for one for years.

Actually there are several people serving real ale or cask ale out of a corny keg.

Mike
 
I second the cask in a bottle comment.

It seems pretty cool to have an actual cask and serve from there and all, but a homebrew bottle basically does the same thing, and is a lot easier to manage.
 
Actually there are several people serving real ale or cask ale out of a corny keg.

Mike

I'd like to know how they set it up. Real ale isn't supposed to be artificially carbonated and it's also supposed to be gravity fed or pump drawn from the keg. Unless you modified a corny, it probably wouldn't work correctly.
 
I'd like to know how they set it up. Real ale isn't supposed to be artificially carbonated and it's also supposed to be gravity fed or pump drawn from the keg. Unless you modified a corny, it probably wouldn't work correctly.

Really easy. Rack to a keg, prime and use a shot of C02 to seat the lid. It will carbonate like any bottle conditioned beer. I know some people have successfully gravity fed out of a corny. There are even a few members who built beer engines for a corny.
 
For gravity pour cask-
Buy either the 5 or 2.5 gallon Winpak
75023p.jpg

Drill a hole in the cap for liquid to pass through, remove the plastic nut from the spigot and screw into the cap.
image_360.jpg
(The cap is threaded to accept the spigot.)

Here are the item links.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...splastic&category_name=11943&product_id=11950
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...enting-equipment/buckets/bottling-spigot.html

When you use this configuration, flip the container so that the top is the side and the spigot is towards the bottom. The reason to use this particular container is because it has a vent hole that can/should be opened when dispensing.

If you need a smaller container, buy a 1-gallon cubitainer
images
and add this spigot/cap.
73063.jpg


Item links-
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va..._name=15039&product_id=13654&variant_id=75077
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va..._name=15039&product_id=13654&variant_id=73063

If you want to set up a hand pump, buy a Valterra pump. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BGM2XG

Connect the pump to the cubitainer with a plastic hose.
DSCN8107.jpg


You can always buy a real beer engine…. but they’re not cheap.

IMO, gravity pouring from the 2.5 gallon winpak is the best.
 
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Thanks Chucke, looks like an excellent method. Can you tell me more about how you go about making and serving? Obviously the first step is brewing the beer and starting fermentation and from what I have read you should rack to the serving vessel when the beer is about 2 points from finishing....I am not that good. That's like telling me to stop two feet before getting in an accident, I don't always know exactly where the end point will be. I have always kegged and always carbonated with the set it and foget it method so I have never bottle conditioned a beer. So I guess my questions would be:


1. When do you rack to the plastic?

2. How do you carbonate?

3. How long after moving to the serving vessel do you serve?

4. How long does you real ale last using this serving method?

5. I would either need to store at 40 degrees (kegerator) or about 72 degrees (room temp). Which would be better and how would I get to a serving temp from there? My thought was to just throw some ice on the plastic when I was ready to serve.

Thanks for the help.
 
I own a pin, and have used it a few times for homebrew - when I knew there would be a crowd to drink it.

A couple issues I have run across are getting bungs and spiles in less-than-bulk-quantities, and dialing in the carbonation levels to where I want it.
 
I let the beer sit in the primary 1-2 weeks after it reaches FG. 1 week for low gravity beers, such as milds and ordinary bitters; 2 weeks for medium gravity beers, such as pale ales, ESBs, porters. Then, rack to the cubitainer or winpack. Add enough sugar (3-4 teaspoons per gallon, IIRC.) for the yeast to bring it to 1 volume of carbonation and maybe finings.

Let it set at about 55F degrees, for the yeast to carbonate. (When using the cubitaner, the spigot will need to be upward.) If 55F isn’t possible, room temp is OK. The cask will swell. That's OK and necessary. You’ll need to monitor it and maybe release a little gas if it looks like the sucka is gonna explode.

Once it stops producing gas, release some so that it’s not under too much pressure and turn the cask so that the spigot is down. Keep cool and don’t move it for a few days. During this time, the beer is absorbing the CO2 and dropping bright. You can take a taste or three during this time. :eek: just to make sure everything is going alright.

Serve @ 55F if at all possible.

When using the winpaks, the spigot is down and the other hole is up. When dispensing, open the small hole. You’ll have 3 or 4 days to drink the beer. The cubitainers collapse on themselves as they go... they don’t allow O2 in, so the beer can last longer. The only thing- you don’t get the additional flavors that are part of the appeal of cask ale.
 
I just brewed up a bitter and plan to serve it on "cask" from a cornie. Plan is to use the RV pump from this thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/index2.html) but install it on my kegerator. My kegerator is fairly beat up already so I'll be drilling a hole in the top to run a beer line to the pump, which I will house in a little tower constructed out of wood.

I bought a natural gas regulator (the guy at the bbq shop said it pushed out even less pressure than a propane regulator) which I will attach between my C02 tank and the corny to keep a blanket of co2 on the beer. I will be missing the good changes oxidation can bring, but the beer should last for more than a few days. In this way I should be able to have a nice hillbilly cask setup on the cheap. I'm going to keep my kegerator around 42 degrees (maybe a bit higher even--I don't like draft beer super cold either) and just deal with the fact that the cask beer will be slightly colder than it should be. I will probably not insulate the wood tower with the handpump, so the beer will warm up a bit on its journey to my glass.
 
I let the beer sit in the primary 1-2 weeks after it reaches FG. 1 week for low gravity beers, such as milds and ordinary bitters; 2 weeks for medium gravity beers, such as pale ales, ESBs, porters. Then, rack to the cubitainer or winpack. Add enough sugar (3-4 teaspoons per gallon, IIRC.) for the yeast to bring it to 1 volume of carbonation and maybe finings.

Let it set at about 55F degrees, for the yeast to carbonate. (When using the cubitaner, the spigot will need to be upward.) If 55F isn’t possible, room temp is OK. The cask will swell. That's OK and necessary. You’ll need to monitor it and maybe release a little gas if it looks like the sucka is gonna explode.

Once it stops producing gas, release some so that it’s not under too much pressure and turn the cask so that the spigot is down. Keep cool and don’t move it for a few days. During this time, the beer is absorbing the CO2 and dropping bright. You can take a taste or three during this time. :eek: just to make sure everything is going alright.

Serve @ 55F if at all possible.

When using the winpaks, the spigot is down and the other hole is up. When dispensing, open the small hole. You’ll have 3 or 4 days to drink the beer. The cubitainers collapse on themselves as they go... they don’t allow O2 in, so the beer can last longer. The only thing- you don’t get the additional flavors that are part of the appeal of cask ale.

Thanks. Looks like a simple method. Is real ale usually drank young? If I made a three gallon batch and split it three ways would it be a problem if it were a couple of months until it was drank, obviously once each individual container was opened it would be consumed over a few days but the others may sit for many weeks.

Mike
 
Is real ale usually drank young?
Depends on the alcohol content and style. You can drink a mild in just over two weeks from brewing. An IPA take longer.


If I made a three gallon batch and split it three ways would it be a problem if it were a couple of months until it was drank, obviously once each individual container was opened it would be consumed over a few days but the others may sit for many weeks.

No problem. Rack to the three containers, add sugar and begin the process described above. Once they start to swell just a little, take the two you’re not ready to drink, bleed off most of the air and refrigerate them *really* cold. This will stop the yeast and stall the process. When you’re ready, pull them out of the fridge, let the beer warm up and start where you left off.
 
This is exactly what I am doing. (80% there). Except I got the propane regulator.


I just brewed up a bitter and plan to serve it on "cask" from a cornie. Plan is to use the RV pump from this thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/index2.html) but install it on my kegerator. My kegerator is fairly beat up already so I'll be drilling a hole in the top to run a beer line to the pump, which I will house in a little tower constructed out of wood.

I bought a natural gas regulator (the guy at the bbq shop said it pushed out even less pressure than a propane regulator) which I will attach between my C02 tank and the corny to keep a blanket of co2 on the beer. I will be missing the good changes oxidation can bring, but the beer should last for more than a few days. In this way I should be able to have a nice hillbilly cask setup on the cheap. I'm going to keep my kegerator around 42 degrees (maybe a bit higher even--I don't like draft beer super cold either) and just deal with the fact that the cask beer will be slightly colder than it should be. I will probably not insulate the wood tower with the handpump, so the beer will warm up a bit on its journey to my glass.
 
Once they start to swell just a little, take the two you’re not ready to drink, bleed off most of the air and refrigerate them *really* cold. This will stop the yeast and stall the process. When you’re ready, pull them out of the fridge, let the beer warm up and start where you left off.

I just found this thread, and I'm interested in trying this out with a cubitaner.

How does the carbonation quality / level of the cubitaner "real ale" compare to bottled conditioned beers (say at a typical 2.5 volume)? What would the difference be in using a hand pump compared to just using the cubitaner spigot?
 
This is exactly what I am doing. (80% there). Except I got the propane regulator.

I ended up needing a propane regulator too. turns out the natural gas did not work out. waste of money, but oh well. love drinking the pseudo cask beer.
 
I just found this thread, and I'm interested in trying this out with a cubitaner.

How does the carbonation quality / level of the cubitaner "real ale" compare to bottled conditioned beers (say at a typical 2.5 volume)? What would the difference be in using a hand pump compared to just using the cubitaner spigot?

Less carbonation at about 55 degrees F = more subtle beer flavors come through. I typically go for 1.0 volume.

Hand pump vss spigot- I use both, depending on my mood. The pump will make the beer creamier, with a little head. The spigot- not so much.
 
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